EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

What is something instinctive that you've seen a dog do? I mean one of those things that helps set them apart. For example, my old Clyde dog was really really quick to locate. But, during the dry season, he was headed to nearest water and then the next nearest until he located. I can't remember another dog ever locating behind him. He wasted no time finding hogs and that always impressed me.

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Yeller was the best dog I ever owned...he was better in all departments...everything he did he made it look easy...in his older age as soon as I casted the dogs he was gone...he would make a quick loop and if he came back after that loop you could bet no hogs in the area...the other dogs would hunt the same as usual on each cast...

Yeller would stay close once he decided there weren’t any hogs around...but when he left you could bet he was going to be bayed somewhere...

At ten months of age he was as good as good dogs and at 12-14 months old he just new how to find the short end of the track pretty quick...the dogs we consider to be the best couldn’t do what Yeller could do even at that young of age...I’ve had some good ones but none like Yeller...and I am pretty sure I never will...

Best instinct ive had in 3 of my line bred curs, is just flat out hunt, at a young age (9-12 mo) they were hunting like 4 yr old finished dogs.

Thank you Rodney spivey and Bob cox for keeping the tight blood around.

My other favorite instinct is being loose. My version of loose doesnt mean chasing 100lb pigs all night, i dont care if they catch what they can handle but just never getting cut. My old dog never got more than a poke her whole life until she was to old to go. Thankfully my pup is like that now to. Seems like allot ive had that have that crazy hunt are also to gritty for a long life.

Ive also had a few dogs that never had to be trash broke, curs in the woods. And several dogos that were hard dogs never caught cows when we sent them into curs trashing etc

Those dogs sound like thinkers

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Self preservation. I can take the dogs I have now to hunt the rankest hogs in the baddest country, probably kill a few, and have a hunt planned for tomorrow without a sliver of a chance I’ll have to cancel that next hunt due to cut up dogs.


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Most people wouldn’t know what that means when it comes to dogs. If ones wants a chance with me they better be able to do some thinking


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I hunted with another dog about a 100 years ago that had a good instinct. I can't tell you how many times we walked up on this dog or drive up on him that he had a hog caught in the ham or the jewels. Hogs would literally be sitting on his head out in the wide open. If he was there for a while before we could get to him, he would let go and back up but stay behind the hog. If the hog made any attempt at all to stand up, he was caught in the same spot again. I have seen more than a couple faced up in the open woods or in a pasture that he was faced up to baying that wouldn't turn and run when we got up on them because o e jewel would be tore out and on the ground and the other hanging out of the sack. He did not put up with runners and he trailed with the intention of stopping his game and not chasing his game. He got cut a couple times but not often and not bad.

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I've always raised my dogs from pups. I want to see them go to the "front" of anything that runs from them. Those that don't are the first to be culled. That's an old Cowman's cur dog test going way back.  ;) Natural instinct to want to go to the front to stop. Can't teach it if it ain't there.

Seen a few gyps who would backtrack the first hog we caught and find the rest of the group. Sometimes it felt like they could count. Most those same gyps would leave a bay and be running as soon as they saw us walking in with bulldogs.

Boogie was a proficient track dog. When he would slow down and was working an old track, he would hit every leaf, tree or bar wire the hog might have rubbed up against.

Seen a few dogs who were very good at drifting a track. As race was happening they would hit a road and eat up a ton of track and still bay the hog.


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G'day TShelly and other post's,
Great read, TShelly please excuse my ignorance but what do you mean when you write dogs who werevery good at drifting a track ??

Cheers

I dont want to speak for TShelly, but the way i took it in analyzing how dogs run tracks, is you have the ones who follow every step "trailing" the hog, then you have the ones who will run the track from one point to another point, if done properly results in running the same track faster.  As a side not its also interesting to watch if a dog stays with the same track no matte what or if they will take off on a hotter track when crossing it on the original one... different styles all work, i generally like all but prefer the one that runs the track faster

Yessir pretty much this. Alot of our dogs like to run a track a lot more than bay. Some will cheat the system, catch a road, eat up a lot of ground and get back on the track way ahead of where they would have been if they stayed step for step.

Running a track they run the scent trail in the air a lot more than the ground scent of that makes sense. Not necessarily head up or head down all the time, just whatever the conditions dictate. Some of those same gyps as stated above seemed like lighting on track bc of their ability to drift.


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Good post TShelly...

The better dogs work that way... 8)

Y’all talk about drifting. The hogs we jack with are straight line runners. They’re gonna got a draw, or a branch, or creekline or something and leave. Not sure how a dog could drift that and it be more productive? I guess maybe if a hog is running circles it could work but  I can count on about one hand how many hogs a year we get on that really change direction more than once and normally when they do it’s cause he’s got some leopard dogs screaming in his ear


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Have to see it and experience it to understand, it doesn't matter what direction a hog runs in its scent lingers in the air just the same, just the same as any other game animal, a track drifter will outrun a track straddler all day, I believe track drifting has as much to do with instinct and experience as it does genetics, it's usually seen in intelligent game smart dogs that have ran lots of game....

I have seen a few dog smart hogs that seem to make a quick circle of a quarter mile or so and then roll out and run hard for a good while...I saw him cross the pipeline almost a mile further up running all out and a while later the dogs crossed the pipeline right where the hog crossed...we caught him later but it took more than a few tries...

Here is a scenario that happens...let’s say a pack of 9 hogs moved in to a hardwood area that had a good mast of acorns...the hogs hung out and fed on the acorns most of the night and laid tracks on about ten acres of land pretty much scattered out in those ten acres...the hogs leave to the watering hole about 4 in the morning which is 3/4 mile away...

Joe figures the hogs would be feeding in that area so he comes in as best he can from the downwind side at about 6 am...he casts Smoke and Yeller about quarter mile from there and the dogs roll out hard because they smell hog in the air...these two dogs are top of the line strike dogs and look good in any company...but there is a small difference in these two dogs...Smoke is a decent dog when it comes to drifting and lining out a feeder track...takes him a few minutes but he will get it lined out pretty quick... he’s got experience and has great instincts...

Yeller is a little different in that he was born to be a great dog...he hits the feeding area from the downwind side and he already knows the hogs are not there...no fresh hog scent in the air...he immediately makes a good loop and barks 2 or 3 times when he locates the feeding exit tracks...in less than five minutes Yeller is bayed not too far from the watering hole...Smoke will be there shortly...

Goose I agree with that. My clyde dog drifted extremely well also. He was average speed in a foot race but could push a track at an all out run that most other dogs had to slow down to run or others would have to keep making losses on because they over ran their nose. He would be bayed so real hundred yards before most dogs. He didn't have to straddle the track to take it. I really think dogs that are real instinctive about hunting into the wind have a strong tendency to drift well. They understand how to use that to their advantage. That's not something you can teach in my opinion.

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Break it down for me goose, if there is a more effective way to travel in a generally straight direction. I’d sure like to know about it. Wasn’t aware a hog was leaving a lingering scent trail as wide as a four lane highway for a dog to drift in. Sounds like a bunch of big time hog hunter bologna to me, or something you tell your buddies when your best dog can’t keep it pushing. I’ll take the dogs that can pick their head up and push a track 13-15 mile an hour in the post oak thickets and run him jump for jump. A lot of hogs make their last run just like that.


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So drifting is just finding the short end of a track? Any dog with half a walnut in his head and a little want to bay, ought to be able to do this... no?


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I have a gyp that the one reason she is still making is her ability like you described with Clyde. She is an ok dog. Hunts steady around you but not real far, busy dog. She has crap bottom, but she will get bayed several hundred yards in front of the dogs every time. A very frustrating little number 2! All the ability in the world, but doesn’t hate a hog. She is out of chance wards old Ike dog. Ike was one that was known real well for cheating a track, cutting corners and still getting bayed way ahead of others.


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I have seen dogs that have trouble finding a hog and others that make it look easy...

Years ago I was surprised to see a big boar come busting through the brush and we could hear him coming...he crossed right by us...the wind was blowing crosswind to the hog from his left...the dogs were not running the track...they were running with their heads up using the wind currents to track the hog from the hogs right side and out about 30 ft or so...the wind had a decent speed so there was no doubt what the dogs were doing.....I have seen similar scenarios since then...

We bayed a group once and caught one out of it. I was sitting out in the open pasture and watched a boar cross it and saw where he entered the next set of woods. When clyde rolled over, that was the hog he left on. He was an easy 25 to 30 yards to the down wind side of where the boar crossed. He was running it as hard as he could go. Another 150 yards into the next set of woods he put up bayed again on that boar. I think a hog lays a wider track than we realize sometimes, depending on the conditions of course. Scent is gonna carry in breezy or light wind. It's gonna scatter in high wind. It also is easier to scent when the moisture is right. Too much or too little and it has no way of clinging to anything or gets washed out. Obviously it isn't going to spread out as much in the brush and even less when its green and vegetation is thicker. Lol I've seen dogs like that gyp your talking about Tony. They sure can aggravate you.

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And somehow these dogs are going to beat the head up trackstars to the hog by hundreds of yards? I’m trying to wrap my head around this concept but with how y’all are explaining it, I’m not buying it. I will put my “track straddler dogs” against the dogs that try to run 10 yards beside the tracks every day all day and 2x on Sunday


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I am only sharing what I have seen...I mentioned it because it was something I hadn’t seen before at that time...I am one of those doggers that wants to know why and how a dog works...before the internet many hunters took years to figure these different scenarios we talk about on this forum on a regular basis...I try to explain things in a way so the new guys can read about these past experiences and hopefully add a new way of looking at how the dogs hunt and work...many don’t need it but there are some that do...

Slim you'll only learn in this life as much as your willing to and you seem to have it all figured out, that's good for you, I don't have to explain myself or my style of dogs to you, I've invited you over before so you can come see the Bologna for yourself, since you want to call BS on something you can't grasp and understand and by you not understanding or seeing it for yourself how can you tell another man he's full of it, you yourself have self admitted said you haven't been hunting to terribly long and I have to ask, have you traveled outside of a 4-5 hour radius of your home territory and put your dogs on the ground against other from that area or yours by themselves, how many different sets of hunters and dogs have you hunted with and against, not just in your area, in other states and parts of the state, different terrain and areas, you speak as if you've seen and done it all with your dogs, I could be wrong, but since you always want to turn everything into a pissing match 62524 Bill Ard Rd Angie La 70426, 985-570-7030 is my number whenever you get ready the door will be open, make sure to,bring the bread for all this Bologna I got going on over here.....

Tdog most of the hog hunters who think they have it figured out don't know squat other than the sound of a bay and what a hog track looks like, they couldn't tell you a thing about scenting conditions and environmental conditions and how to hunt them accordingly or track style in a dog, most only know a dog has a nose and can smell a hog track and that's about all they can tell you, the rest is just a guess and shot in the dark as to why something happened the way it did instead of breaking down the reasons why and understanding how certain things work, that's to complicated, it's easier to tell somebody they're full of it and don't know what they're talking about, that's about on the same lines as me telling a mechanic how to rebuild and engine because I changed the oil and put air in the tire once....


I see why there's very few folks that are actively commenting regularly on here, I know several VERY knowledgable men who no longer participate in conversations on here anymore and now I see why.....

I believe that an exceptional wind dog is the best at track drifting.I own the best wind dog I've been around to date Hambone regularly winds hogs up to a half mile.When he barks and I cut him he makes  a straight line to the hogs he also uses this ability in running the track after jumped.Last night he winded some hogs at 675 we caught 6 out of the group and he lined the boar out the terrain was marsh with oak hammocks and a lot of switchgrass ponds it looks like the moon on google earth from all the ponds the hogs use these switchgrass ponds to loose the dogs they are extremely thick and nothing but hog tunnels the hogs will enter make a few laps and exit to the next a lot of dogs dive headlong in and get hung up on trying to find the exit by the time they do the hog generally has a big lead and by the third of fourth time its as good as gone well Hambone and my cypress dog will run around the edge and wind the exit and actually make up ground where most make a loss.They have figured out how to counter this play from experience and intelligence.I watched Hambone do this over and over on the garmin last night for a couple miles until he realed him in and got bayed.A straight trail dog struggles in this situation without winding first off you'd never strike the hogs and running step for step they get hung up in the hog mazes in the switchgrass ponds

By the way I didn't mean for this post to sound as if I have the best dogs I was just giving my opinion and experience on track drifting and what I see my dogs do.

It’s not a pissing match guy. I do not care what you or somebody else feeds. Nor did I say you or your dogs were anything one way or the other. The big bad hog hunter mentality is shining through. You obviously haven’t been too far into Texas either because 4 or 5 hours can change scenery about 4-5 time. I’m currently 4 hours south of home with some dogs raised in the blackland Priaire post oaks of south central Texas hunting the caliche brush country and salt grass flats of the coastal bend and sections upon sections of grain fields but no my dogs don’t see much window time traveling


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Like I said before, to understand a track drifter you have to hunt with them, to understand different styles of dogs you have to hunt with them, it can be explained all day long but until you see it for yourself it's nothing more than speculation, kinda like making love to a woman, it can be explained to you in great detail but until you've done it yourself you really don't know, most hog hunters don't pay attention to a dogs track style or let alone know what track style means, very few folks break down and apply themselves enough to understand why things happen the way they do,especially as far as scenting and environmental conditions go and the role they play in your success, it's not complicated to understand once you know what your looking for and at, a good dog knows when to put his head in the air and drift a track, puts its nose to the ground and grub one out, and work the vegetation or whatever to pull scent off of it, for every action there is a reaction and a reason behind everything, it's up to us to try and understand things when they happen, another big factor is in order to truly understand dogs, especially hunting dogs then a man needs to hunt with different dogs for different game to get an idea as to why and how dogs do the things they do....


I've travelled through Texas many times my friend and that was my whole point, the more different places and terrain  you hunt the more you learn, and if anybody has a big bad hog hunter mentality it might just be you, I might stand firm in my beliefs and share my thoughts on a particular matter but you'll never hear or see me call somebody out or tell them their full of sh!t when I don't understand what they're talking about and do so just because I simply don't know.....

I literally just asked for one of you to articulate better. What your calling a “track drifter” I just call a dog from the explanation so far. It’s bad ones good ones and better ones. I make it a point to own better ones. You say you only learn as much as you allow yourself to. I say it’s only as easy as you make it. I pay attention, I knit pick, I’ll call my dogs off of hogs because they’re not baying like they know how. I beg the question because the only time I’ve heard of drifting on a track was from a coon hunter and it wasn’t a compliment to the dog. Every hog in the world could die tomorrow and mine will still go on cows. I quit claiming to be a hog hunter almost 2 years ago because of guys that get wound up like you are right now. You told me baying and shooting in your part of the world wasn’t doable and then not a few weeks later shot 2 bad hogs in a bad spot in the same hunt at night none the less. I’m not saying a dog can’t do what y’all are saying, I’m saying it resulting in the outcome you are claiming seems far fetched at best by the very generic explanation that’s been given. It’s not a faster way to travel straight than going straight and straddling a track and pushing one are 2 different things

Somethings can't be explained, they have to be witnessed to understand, and to have a better judgement of what's going on you'd be ahead of the curve to go fox or cat hunting to understand how much faster and efficient a dog that can run the scent funnel with his head in the air than a dog that puts its nose to the ground and makes every step the game makes, I promise you , you of all people aren't getting me"wound up", especially  something being said on the Internet, but it does rub me the wrong way a little when someone who doesn't even know me and admits he doesn't know what we're talking about when we talk about a track drifter wants to jump in and call bullsh!t on something you say you know nothing about, to men who have been using that style of dogs for years, it's not something new, I don't have to far fetch or stretch anything, anytime I make a statement about me and mine I will gladly back it up, as far as baying and shooting hogs around here I'll still stand my ground on that, what happened to us was a fluke and one hog had  50lb dog hanging off his ear, and I'll probably never have that opportunity around here again, and again if you think it's as "easy" as you make then come on and come show us how easy it is, there's a difference in thinking one thing and actually knowing something, and actual experience trumps what you think or heard, maybe someone would have broken it down for you better if you wouldn't have said that those of us who actually know what a drifter is and own them and how efficient they are didn't know what we're talking about and that we're crazy if we think any different...

I believe what these guys mean when they say that a drifter is faster, is that he’s taking a point A to point B line instead of the long track. Different hogs do different things in different areas. On my land you will never see a hog run a full straight track. Not one time. The will run to the river, or to the thickest stuff around, and then they’ll cut knots for several hours or keep zig zagging back and forth over the river. So the way I think about it is if you had a pig cut a big loop, and he’s out to the left, the dog that catches him on the wind and bee lines Left is going to be faster than the dog that goes 500yds forwards, and then tries to hang 600yds to the left on his track to get to him.


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Yup. It’s a hard concept to understand if you don’t see it often or ever. People get stuck in their observations of dogs they hunt or what they have seen hunt and it’s harder to comprehend other styles. Just takes time and looking at lots of dogs running hogs.

Most of the dogs we hunt are very proficient at running the scent funnel or drifting. We see it start in younger dogs as well. I’ve always said I thought one reason we were able to stack numbers was the track speed that some of our dogs possess. They arnt faster straight line than other cur dogs but a lot are more effective at running a hog bc of their ability to drift. Like t-dog stated above.. in that hunt last weekend. They went and jumped that last boar hog, he came across the line flying. About a minute later here came the dogs about 15 yards off his track drifting it.

The easiest way to explain drifting in my eyes is the ability to run a track the most efficient way possible. Taking the shortest route to point a and b without leaving the track. This allows the dogs that drift to get significantly ahead of straddlers.

I’ve hunted from Mississippi to west texas and south texas and anywhere in between. 80% of the time we hunt pine plantation, briar and youpon thickets. It’s a lot harder to drift a track and see it happen in a 10k acre thicket. They still do it but at times the hog gets so far ahead they have to go back to tracks straddling bc the scent funnel had dissipated. Where you can really see it in our dogs is when we go west or north. The post oak savannah around Lexington area and anything up north around Buffalo is always a honey hole for us. The dogs can stretch their legs out and really run head up in this open country littered with wood lots and pastures.

Disclaimer: these are just my observations. I’m no dog man, just trying to carry on what all the old timers have done. I did stay in a Holliday Inn once, so there is that lol.


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 Slim, track drifting is not complicated to understand but it is very functional. Say a hog is running or has fed in a zig zag pattern into the wind, rather than follow the track, the track drifting dog goes straight ahead into the wind, or say a hog is running across the wind for quite a while than he makes a loop and goes back the way he came from, when he gets directly up wind from the track drifting dog he goes straight to the hog rather than make the loop the track does. Some are much better at it than others, those that aren't good at it will often get thrown out of a race due to a wrong turn. Most Cur Dogs aren't track straddlers anyway but some cut across better than others.
The Garmins make this easy to see, if you have a dog that is "cutting across or drifting" and he is getting bayed ahead of the other dogs that is most likely what is happening, on the other hand "especially with open trailing dogs" if the dog is cutting across and not getting bayed ahead of the other dogs he is just plain slow and cheating or piggy backing to stay in the race.

It is not uncommon at all for dogs on a hot track to run on the down wind side of the track if there is a breeze, you get into the difference in scent glands and the body scurf, but it does happen a lot whether you have noticed it or not.

I want to see a hogs that just run in straight lines. Most all hogs circle. May be a 5 mile circle or 500 yard circle. Even if they run to a creek, most creeks have lots of bends. My Garmin always looks like a 2 yr old got ahold of a crayon. Anyways I’ll take the drifter 100x’s over the track straddler.  Here is kinda an example. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/f31f09056a1de5cf044c828bb11b68f9.jpg)


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Yes sir I think that’s the way most cur dogs do it.  The scent cone is wide on the downwind side of the track. Where the dander  and such is falling off the game your  running .


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This right here. The first picture, that orange line is what the old coon hunters I know call drifting on a track and it is not a good term. No a dog should not drop his head and make a circle every where the hog stuck his nose in the dirt and meandered around. Find the short end and drive it up his rear. As for straight line runners we got them. Generally hogs seem to have a place the originate from, more often it’s some over grown place or the one place in the area the owner won’t let you hog hunt. The hogs will drift out a good ways and feed and lay for a few days at a time if you stick a dog on him he is going to head straight for home. Yes there’s going to be a bend or 2 hear or there due to either topography or fencing. Here is a place we have hunted hard for going on 5 years. Since the very beginning with number 2 eaters to what I have no which are far and away better than what a lot of boys are using in my opinion. The hogs have always done the same. 1 of 2 ways depending on where you caught them laid. And they always run to the same set of woods because it’s over growed and you can’t get in there to them. That is their home. Short arrows come from common beds and to which main path they will use. You might as well put a county road in because these hogs are running one of those damn near to perfection every time. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/ccbbd84878b5518b5ce038933bad8169.jpg) the white is dictated by netwire fencing and the hogs travel through the 2 bad thickets on the way back home. The blue is walker branch which is a small wet weather creek. Not much room for doing anything else with these tracks other than taking them for what they are. We used to hunt the place they run to as well. They never went back south. They always go due north.


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Slim your right to question this as it can be over complicated.

The Old Man explained it the best but I will simplify it even more. Its simply a dog lifting his head and running the scent in the air in a more direct line. It can be faster because if that hogs been weaving a little or meandering around instead of following every little weave in and out, it will just run a straight line through it making up ground on the hog. Your dogs probably do it and you just didn't know that is what people call it, as most stock bred cur dogs drift, some more than others. That is the main way winding type dogs run a track from what I have seen. Now how much a dog will drift is a different story, some get real good and start what us cat and fox hunters call cheating, in which they will "swing" and "drift" a track a lot more, sometimes more than the scent will allow. This is a double edge sword, because if the dog is really good at knowing how the game runs he will catch a lot of game a lot quicker, but if he is not this is where dogs make big losses and can end races. You can really see this cat or fox hunting big packs of dogs on the Garmin due to the way cat and foxes run. This is why a lot of these houndsmen like to have both in their pack and when the dogs have run together enough the cheaters will even learn that when they lose the track that they can go back to the voice of a certain dog they trust (track straddler) and get back on the track and try to get back in the race though sometimes they are too far behind.

Also if the hogs you are running are just running straight lines then drifting or track straddling doesn't make as much difference, whats makes the bigger difference in this case is running heads up or nose down. Just some observations I have made.

Exacttly like Clue said it. Most curs and some hounds run what I call running heads up. This is normally a hot track. Years ago I used to hunt a mostly cypress swamp and that is when I noticed how far off the track the dogs were running but they were well within the cone of scent. During dry times you could really see the dog tracks and they might be 30-70 yards or more on the down wind side of the track. On hogs and bear if you do not have a dog that runs heads up, he will not bay or tree many animals.

This makes a little sense now. You say cheating a track and I’m picking up what your putting down because my uncle talks a lot lately about how my sketch gyp cheats hogs or tracks. She’s starting to do it more often. At first it resulted in a lot of lost tracks, she is getting better at staying In them as she gets older, coming 3 year old this summer. Because of the way our hogs seem to run, it is very rare to see a hog cross, we don’t hunt big blocks with cut overs and such. The other night in the corn fields was the first time in a long time I got to see a hog cross out front of my dogs she was 80 yards behind or so when she broke out but pretty much right where he was. Probably has a lot to do with grain your gonna have to get in the same turn row you push him. She was stretched out and and pouring it to him when she hit the scrub flat he went in to and had him put up in a tank within 300 yards. Guess I’ve just never heard it called anything because it’s just something these dogs I’m around have always done


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Cracker I personally didn't take it that you were bragging. What your dogs ha e learned to do is pretty dang smart. It sounds a lot like what an accurate coon dog does. When he finds the tree the coon has taken, instead of automatically treeing, he will make big circles around it to make sure mr coon didn't just tap that tree or climb up and bale etc. Once he's sure that hasn't happened he'll tell it. I like it.

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Another thing I've seen involves locating. I cast dogs one morning and not 10 minutes later a northern blew in. Roscoe was already trying to work something out bit that wind was ridiculous and he was having a time with it. He finally decided to out smart it and started making big circles. His circles kept getting smaller and smaller  and moving in the same direction. Wasn't long and he was bayed on a solitary boar. It was real good watching.

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Tdog what do you mean by "locating"? This has peaked my curiosity as I have not heard this term used the way you did. I think I understand what you are saying but not sure, can you give us another example? What I am gathering is a dog smart enough to use other tools other than just his nose to find the hog if the conditions are against him smelling it. Or am I understanding you wrong.

I had to ask Chance one time what he meant by “drifting a track” because I didn’t understand the concept and he explained it so I could. The dog is Cheating. This type of dog is using its head more than following its nose. It has learned from experience what hogs are going to do and so instead outpacing the hog track for track, the dog is heading straight to where he believes the hog is going and try’s to beat him there.
This is why a dog can seem like it doesn’t have great bottom but will usually beat the dog who does, it’s just a smart dog gambling on the law of averages.

Watch a dog molest and pester a wad of cows, always reacting to the cows decisions va a cow dog who is controlling a set of cows and making the herd respond to his decisions

Good post...your hambone has brains and bottom...I haven’t used the Garmin to the full potential...I haven’t seen my dogs run to the other side and gain ground in this way...but it is great that your dog is doing that...as you know there is no way a dog can keep up with a hog running through the thickest of thickets whether it is cane or palmettos...

The only thing I can say about running to the other end is what I see in my back yard...I usually will have 3 or 4 pups in the kennels and every afternoon I turn them out to run and play...they will roughhouse and play chase and roll each other pretty regular...they are good about taking shortcuts on each other when they chase each other around the kennels... I don’t put much thought into this because they can see each other...but when they are chasing each other around the shed the one doing the chasing will lots of times cut around to the other side and catch them as they come around...other times the one going around will stop and double back fooling the dog that is chasing...it’s all fun and games for me as well...I am learning how the pups think and operate...and the pups are gaining experience on running and stopping a pig...

Again...sounds like ole hambone is making a really good dog...

One of the best examples of visually seeing track drifting is watching African painted wolves from ariel drone footage.They drift flank and relay tracks smooth as silk and have the highest success rate in the animal world.

This has been a great thread to educate folks to something they may not be aware of. The discussion amongst those most knowledgeable is great to see. To see the patience without it devolving into a pissin match is why this is the only message board I have anything to do with. Thanks to all you guys who share your knowledge, it's the only way this way of life can survive.

Doesn't surprise me your gyp will both cheat and drift a track. Like was said before most winding type dogs like curs will drift a track. As for cheating that doesn't surprise me that she does that either with her being stock bred. One will lead to the other quite a bit with intelligent dogs.

For me its tough to tell hog hunting if our dogs ever cheat because our dogs are silent and the kind of country we run we don't get to see the hogs until they are caught, but cat and fox hunting is a different story, its really easy to tell when you have a whole pack of dogs all running the same piece of game for a good amount of time. You can look at the garmin after the race and see who likes to do what.

Michael, when I say locate I actually mean putting eyes on the hog and baying. They have located the hog. Some call it striking, but to me striking is like when a coon dog for example is cast and opens up when it smells a track. In competition, the first one to strike gets points etc. Reuben, those pups are doing what many say dogs don't do. They are reasoning. I love to see a dog reason.

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Can you link the video you’re talking about? Sounds neat to watch


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I've just seen it on nature documentaries no particular video.

Going back to the original question and changing the current subject just a bit, one instinctive thing I like to see is an early indication that a dog is going to roll over after a caught hog.

Lots of people love to see a dog be “hog crazy” or “hate a hog” and from time to time I’ve seen a handful of that style that are nice dogs, but I really perk up when I see a pup on its first few hunts being an active and purposeful participant in the bay, BUT, losing interest and leaving as soon as the hog is under control. I like to pretend the dogs I’ve trusted with are mostly all predisposed to this trait, but the truth is, as little as I’ve hunted since Harvey, I’ve had to look honestly at who is instinctively driven to always be looking for the next one, and who is having to be reminded that they are still on the clock.

Sorry guys, I didn’t explain myself on the “hate a hog” front. What I mean is several times over the years I’ve seen dogs that are SUPER intense working their way to a hog, baying and helping catch it and then afterwards have to be leashed and clipped to a tree. Wild eyed and snarling, they keep pawing at the ground, straining against the leash to get back to the hog. That’s what I had in mind with those phrases and while I’ve seen some very driven ones who were hard to beat to the first hog, I’ve seen the same guys who were incredibly proud of that dog be frustrated with it when hunting with dogs who are always trying to beat each other to the next hog.

Another trait I like to see “instinctively” is thoughtfulness. I mean when you have something you are trying to accomplish and the dog reads you and tries to assist. Often with modern Curs we have bred further away from this trait accidentally by selecting towards specialization. I don’t mean “the dogs back in the day were way better...”, actually I think it could be argued that some dogs today are far more effective at their individual niche. Sometimes though, it’s refreshing to see the old ways active in a modern dog.


Quick anecdote;
Old bitch I was gifted years ago, several times had hogs in a stock tank and learned that it was easier for us 2 legged’s to catch the hog if she moved it to our side. I watched her countless times try a hog in the middle of a body of water, figuring out if it was an attack hog or a run off hog and she’d adjust her pressure and body position accordingly. Eventually this trait moved onto dry land and shed lead hogs towards me any time she was able. When there was a bunch of dogs around she usually couldn’t, but by herself, I’d walk up to find her leading a hog up the trail right to me.

She produced one daughter who would do it and a son who is beginning to show signs of it if only I could hunt him more once every 2 months  :-\

I like the roll over dogs too. My Raylynn gyp is almost too quick to do it sometimes. It's usually on the smaller stuff when she does it. It's like she says oh you can handle this. I'll see you at the next one. We hunted to pups out of her yesterday. They're almost a year old and it was their 4th hunt or so. After the second hog yesterday, they started trying to roll over. After the 4th one they bayed their own hog. My pup bayed her own hog out of the group by herself. It was the 3rd hog but she was baying while 2 other hogs were squealing. I think it's a sign of intelligence over aggression, or they are smart enough to know hey it's done here let's go get another one.

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Terry I know exactly what you are saying regarding dogs rolling out as soon as the first is handled, it is a fine trait to have in a dog no doubt but I am a bit different than the majority regarding that aspect. While I, like you will not put up with the type of dog that I have to clip to a tree to get it off of the hog I differ from you in the fact that I prefer to be able to tell my dogs to roll out or to simply say nothing and let them relax and stay close by so that we can move on to the next spot I plan to hunt. I don't have a certain sound or call I make to get them to stay close but they know when I say get out to get out right then and there, if I go to sayin "roll, roll, roll" and hiss at em repeatedly they will leave out and continue hunting but if I don't they have pretty well figured out that I want them to stay close. I have worked on them alot in the past year as far as overall handle goes, I am to the point with  all of them (with exception to my pups under a year old) that if I have someone else hunting with me I can tell them to go and they will follow the other hunter back to the buggy or if I am by myself I can tie the hog then walk out with them and put them up before going back and doing whatever I need to with the hog, it has made my hunting alot more enjoyable overall.

Shoot, that's a pretty dang happy medium far as I see. I can't argue with that at. We will hunt one of these days and if it's sooner than later, you'll see I don't have a single yeller bass turd that'll do what I like these days!  ;D. I've hunted these poor dogs 4 or 5 times this whole year and it shows!


When they were going strong last year though, I learned to use that text message feature on my fancy new Garmin and it works a lot better than hollering or blowing a cow horn! So in a way, we are going the same direction, I just want mine to be natural born cheaters so that one of these days when you and I hunt together, they'll get a headstart!  >:D. From talking to Stokley, I can tell I'll need every advantage I can get over them of yours!!  ;D

The rolling over is a natural trait I love in these cur dogs I fool with as well.Mine help catch though before leaving and are closer to what Justin describes and leave when I say to leave.

I am glad to see folks using the words roll over rather than relay...I would like to see Black and Tan cur rather than reverse BMC... I haven’t been able to figure that one out yet...

This is a great thread, at 1st I was finding it hard to understand some of the terminology's used but as I continued to read on and different examples were explained I began to understand. I agree that these traits are natural instinct and some dogs have a better handle on them than others. I also believe as others have mentioned that terrain and vegetation makes a big difference to a dogs working style. 
Again great thread.

Cheers   
   

It sounds very easy...with today’s forums anyone who wants to be a dogman can read and apply if they are truly in it for the dogs...some folks might think they have great dogs because they catch hogs once they get on them...but the dogs that usually make drifting a track look easy are the same dogs that make it finding a hog look easy as well...there are plenty of bush beaters out there hunting and finding a hog now and then... and then a dog can be coming right in behind that dog a little  while later and gets one found and bayed in that same area...