EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I bred my cold nosed long legged cur when I thought I was about to lose him to my 40 pound pit catch dog. Beautiful black and brindle pups. I wish I would of had a female strike dog I thought was worthy enough but I’ve been wanting some rougher style dogs anyways though. Any opinions on this Cross and experience?

Depends on his background a bunch. If he comes from real stand off dogs you will probably get some rougher type but if his background already has a lot of bite you may well get straight catch types. OR, you might get some of all 3 types catch, rough, or not so much. The gene pool you start with will have a lot to do with it. JMO

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He wasn’t rough at all. I’m going to take my time with these pups and weed through them one by one.

I have some myself and like tdog said  you can almost make a whole pack out of 1 breading... meaning tight nose to nose bay and strike dog to straight catch. Mine will all find there own hog and try to catch it ,but most the time they pile on 1. Haven't had the bay busters guys talk about cause there is no baying. I hunt them close which I prefer, sometimes able to see the hog first. I like em but sometimes I  wish I had a loose baying strike dog and 1 catch dog. Keep us posted

Years ago we ran some Pitbull x Mt cur and almost all those we kept hunted hard and no bark...it was quite a bit before Garmin...the biggest problem was they hunted too far and we didn’t know when they caught a big boar and sometimes not even when close...I think the contributing problems were breeding to gritty long range mt curs...I have and a few crosses I liked pretty good that weren’t straight catch that had some sense to them but needed running vest...and Garmin really helps...

Like Tdog and Rough Curs already said you will get a mixture from loose to straight catch and it is up to you to select they type you want...if picking rough I would use running vests on them...

Like Friday night we got on a runner and the dogs got over a mile away on the other side of the lake and I was on foot lost in a thicket looking for the damn leavy lmao all because I took a right instead of a left. They had originally bayed up maybe 3 or 400 yards away. I only hunt with one tight dog right now my redbone will hardly gum a piglet but his son will put teeth on one. Long night didn’t get home until five. Weird thing is when we finally got back to the truck to drive around the lake to get them I looked at my garmin and it said they were at the truck. Get to it they’re in the dog box with the tailgate shut. So hopefully this litter will help stop the foot chase if they’re catching or not. Cause lately I’ve been wanting to get brave and send my catchdogs from a hundred yards away or more. Which in my case I usually always send them when I can see what they’re baying or wait to know if it’s going to break or not. I’ve only hunted with a rcd once and they didn’t find a pig until they were a mile away after they busted a deer defiantly tough especially if your walking.

Most of them are kind mopey but two I already know I’m keeping they’re not afraid to leave the huddle and look around or search. There’s also two that think they’re big bad bull dogs they are thick. Which is weird because both of the parents weren’t fighters or aggressive. Even with my girlfriends red heeler they act like the shot callers at 5 weeks old. Time will tell

Cheston, a buddy of mine raised a litter like this once. He had a pup like those two you're talking about. They thought it was cute when he was little and even named him grumpy. Problem was he almost ruined a really nice pup of mine once. He was fine with my buddies dogs but not new dogs. He was jumping on my pup at the bay, well actually caught hogs. He would get possessive and jumped on the pup and give him a good thrashing before we got there and the pup would meet us coming out and bleeding. They weren't big hogs so it wouldn't take long to wreck them and instead of going on like he knew to do, he'd keep my pup off "his" hog. He was too rough. He was gonna try every hog. Outside of that he was a decent dog but I couldn't ever like him personally because of the puppy incident. That pup was more valuable and had way more potential than grumpy ever did. It took over a year to get that pup back to where he was. I don't think he ever made the dog he was on track to be. If it had happened once I may have been able to forgive it, but it happened more than once on more than one hunt which is partly my fault.

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Yeah I didn’t really like that about them. First time I’ve gotten to watch them close I just laid on the floor and let them do their thing. Every time the heeler and my pat would start playing rough those two would stumble out and try to get them and they would just stumble around the huddle growling and snapping. I bred them for personal use because I thought I was going to loose the cur and she was the only female on my yard I thought highly of. Only 2 or 3 of the 9 will be given away the rest I will keep and sort through looking for imperfections like this. Nothing I hate more than a dog that rather fight or pick at another dog on the yard or hunting.

I have two, they’re both littermates. Father is a Ladner BMC that is open, soft baying, cold nosed, and won’t stop until he has a hog. Way more bottom than most people would ever want in a dog. Chasing a dog for 24 hours through the swamp gets old. But he’s one of those dogs that will find the only pig on the property, just a superstar. The mother was a black, game bred pit, that was a bad to the bone RCD. Every single puppy out of the 3 litters turned out to be a decent or really good dog, they all came out straight black, silent, and straight catch. They looked like clones. The male I have is my lead dog. He hunts 200-300yds and will go a little over a mile before he will come back which is fine since my dogs are straight catch.


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Do you mind posting a few pics of them

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191113/6de1f613b652856a91eb272cff0b6ea2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191113/f32f36f092c4e399baeb6e9712dbf35a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191113/affaac372e1de783bc90cc68b817516a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191113/1d39d08d46a49e7497c6046bd372e499.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191113/0f8f4373445c190d70dc0152ae6cd452.jpg)

These are a few pics of my male Dum Dum, and a picture of him and his sister, Mine. I have a young dog that’s off of the female, bred to my catch dogs brother. That female, Punk, is a great dog. So far she hasn’t found her own pig, but she’s often right there at the front of a race and is nasty on a pig. Most pictures I have of her I can’t really post on here. They’re on my Facebook but I know they don’t like real graphic stuff on here. She has literally ripped a pigs face off before in the 15 minutes it took me to get to her and Dum Dum. She’s the brown dog that’s in front of me holding Dum Dum and Mine.


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Those two are hard dogs. I’ve watched Dum Dum hold a 250lb boar by himself, and his sister Mine tried to hang a 450lb pig that had killed the catch dog before we got there and the only other dog there was a loose bay dog. I normally run all rough dogs. The loose dog and a RCD stopped the pig after a long race. It took us 4 hours to get to the pig. The catch dog was dead, bay dog was still there. Mine ran in and tried to hang him and got cart wheeled 10ft in the air, she tried it again with the same results and then the guy I was hunting with shot the pig before she could try a 3rd time


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Damn he sure is good looking. I can’t wait till they get some size to them and I can introduce them to the woods. I usually run a loose pack of two adults a young dog and two lead in cd but lately with me walking everywhere and where I hunt if they got any size to them they’re gonna run with or without pressure I know this liter ain’t gonna answer all my problems but if I had some attitude and theyd grab a root and hold I’d send all the cavalry they need. I plan on posting up a few of the females when I get time this week but the rest I’m keeping just too see how they pan out. If any of them are still around I’d like o cross one to my dogo and one to another hound or cur.

Just some advice, if you’re running a dog that’s straight catch, run several at a time. I run 4 dogs at a time plus any dogs that a friend brings. A lot of my dogs siblings have been killed by people running them with the wrong dogs. There’s been 3 litters, they all made dogs. Not many of them are left, probably 15-20 of them have been killed. The only time I’ve ever heard them bark was once when my male ran up on a sounder of big pigs and after a few barks he hung a 250lb boar. I thought he was hurt when he started barking so I ran in and about got ran over by some huge pigs. The second time was when he tried to catch a boar in some real nasty briars. He got a little tiny nick and backed up and barked until he saw another dog and then caught. That’s the only time he’s done that, regardless of being cut. I’m hoping that as he is getting older he is just being intelligent. The pig had the biggest teeth I’ve caught. He would wrecked Dum Dum if he tried to hold him in that briar bed.


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Oh yeah for sure. That’s how I always got my dogs in a bind was running different kinds of dogs that mixed like oil and water. It would make me feel a lot better with more than two hanging off of oneself

I’ve seen people run all kinds of different dogs and catch pigs but personally I like them rough. I think a lot of the people that don’t like rough dogs due to injuries is because they only run one or two. I run a whole pack of dogs that are straight catch. And my dogs tend to stay together pretty well so I have been fortunate to not have any serious injuries. Of course dogs will eventually get hurt or killed, that comes with that style of hunting. But I think you can drastically reduce the chances of that by having more dogs on the ground. Depends on what your goal is also, some people love a good bay. I’ve never had the opportunity to witness one because the pigs around me run so bad, I haven’t seen anyone with looser dogs stop them. But, I’m hunting for farmers, they just want every pig dead so my style of dog works well for that, especially in corn fields.


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Oh yeah for sure. That’s what I’m hoping to do when I hunt them is running three or four of them with one dog that will not put teeth on one hell while my little pat holds on hopefully some nuts

One last question this is my first litter I’ve ever bred did you just pick one out of the pile or did they have certain characteristics

I didn’t breed them. The guy that started me and mentored me bred them. He hunts and trains dogs 7 days a week for a living. He kept 100% of the first litter. Every single dog turned out. Obviously some better than others, but no culls. He started selling a few of them after they were very heavy started and hunting. The second and third litter he sold a few as puppies and then sold the others after getting them going good. He doesn’t keep many dogs, he likes to sell dogs once they’re hunting good. Not a dog peddler, he’s very good at what he does and he enjoys making dogs. This line is fairly well known around this area, they’re Bo Betty’s. There are no more being made and they made a name for themselves and you will be hard pressed to find somebody selling any off those original litters. As far as I know, I’m the only person that has a male and female. They were purposely placed where people wouldn’t have the means to continue the line to keep it fairly exclusive. Now I’m hoping to fine tune it a little more.

As far as picking pups, your guess is as good as mine. I typically like the ones that are off by themselves exploring, or one that is intelligent, for example always figuring out how to escape the pen.


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Do a search for puppy training and breeding, there is some awesome knowledge on here. Reuben, Goose, and quite a few others have covered those topics several times.


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Thanks man

Good read ... we have a litter due at the end of this month. Father is a big, long legged , Foundation BMC and mother is a game bred gyp ( Boudreaux / Frisco/Mims )  hoping they work out.

I like to hide there food and see which pups use their nose the most to find it.

Most pit/cur mixes ive been around are not straight catch but are gritty. Not the greatest hunting dogs but will hunt.

The ones that are straight catch make great cds imo bc of the added endurance etc the cur adds, but ive seen many bred like this and only 2 were straight catch. One was a cat/pit other was a blue heeler/pit mix.

A long long time ago I had one I used for a catch dog on cattle if we were catching single idiots, a buddy of mine had a pit gyp he wanted to breed to my BMC dog and I let him and took a pup. He would not catch around a bunch of cattle, in fact was a pretty good baydog but was out of place some compared to the BM's, but if I put him on one of anything he was a straight solid catch dog. I  saw an old big rank cow pick him up and carry him back to the bunch a few times and once the other cattle hooked him off the cow he had caught but it cost her a mouthful of nose. He wouldn't even catch one that ran off from the bunch unless I took after it. He was the only half and half  I ever had any dealings with.  I have had several Curdogs that figured out the game and would catch if we were after a single cow  and I had my rope down, but weren't rough the rest of the time.

Had lost every pup out of the liter except the one I had gave away. I got her back due to the guy leaving for work and she is as green as grass but luckily was a house dog so she has some handle. I haven't shown her one yet but she left my feet and went a ways my first time taking her

Here’s a pit/cut my friend just picked up.

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That’s a nice looking dog


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Looks like he got the better half of the breeding lol.  Mine looks like her momma the pit just a little narrower head and a dark brindle. Real small dog. I picked up a several liters of my wife's granfathers accidents this year. Neighbors pit bred like 3 of his cat cur cow dogs in one swing. Finally gave away all of them but the one that knew if he got caught he was getting put up. So he's been hunting rabbits and varmints since he was old enough to get away from me. Got him caught last week and put on a chain. He may make a dog him and his brother caught a 40 pet pig when they were like 2-3 months maybe even younger. and the pig was not happy i was more surprised and in shock and awe while my wife was freaking out.

One thing I’ve learned over time is that ingredients make a recipe but only the baker can makes the cake.

No matter what they’re born as, they’ll only be as good as the effort you put in to them is what I mean. I’ve long been opposed to crossing bulldog into my curs, but the truth is that one of my all time favorite knuckleheads had 1/4 pit in him.

I’ve got a long list of good stories about him, but my favorite is the time he ran himself crippled.
The dogs name was Snicklefritz and he had gotten a horrible cut under one of his front arms. The tusk had cut up under the armpit and separated a bunch of the connective tissue. I treated it as best I could but he was unbelievably hard headed and wouldn’t stay off of it to let it heal properly. The wound took much longer to heal than I thought it should have and staying home on the chain was pure torture for Snicklefritz. Several weeks had passed since the wound had fully closed and he LOOKED like he was fully recovered, so when I was invited to hunt a rice field where the hogs run pretty bad I decided it’d be nice to have him along to anchor some of them running jokers.
As soon as we dropped the tailgate that evening, a few of my straight curs burned out of sight and fell bayed in a ditch with 1 minute of casting. I let Snick go from the truck, me and the fella I was with headed that way and caught that first hog. As soon as we had our hands on it, Snick let go and went to find the full blood curs which had rolled off the first hog as soon as snick had caught it. This exact scenario repeated itself over a dozen times in the next hour or two until, at the last hog, a monster sow in a rice canal, I noticed that Snicklefritz couldn’t climb out of the water.

I carried him out of the canal and found that his recently healed shoulder had COMPLETELY separated internally and he’d been running, baying, catching and rolling out on his good shoulder at top speed for at least half the hunt! By that last hog, his good arm was so weak that he couldn’t hold himself upright on it even if standing still.

I put him on the ground to make room for him on my ATV and when I turned to pick him up I couldn’t find him. As I scanned the area with my flashlight, I saw grass parting itself like a ghost was headed towards the woods! I ran him down and found this dog with his front legs laid straight under him, his face in the dirt and his backside up in the air, chugging like a locomotive, driving him on to find another hog!


I never did get pups out of him, but in hindsight, I’d say he sure taught me to humble myself a bit when thinking of genetics and cross breeds, and to thank the Lord for a good dog, no matter how he made them!

Pretty impressive drive in that ole dog t-bob.


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I agree. The ones with that kind of drive are the real deal.

T-Bob, that’s an awesome story and a hell of a dog it sounds like.

I just made what I hope to be the best cross this blood has seen. My mentor crossed a hell of a Ladner BMC named Bo to an 80lb lean game pit that he had called Black Betty. They did this cross 3 times and every single puppy made a good to great dog and were clones of each other. The dad was a papered Ladner and the mom came from some old game blood that was very well bred. Every single one of them was damn near suicidal rough and would catch and hold like the best bull dog you could ask for. All but one of them was 100% silent. The semi open one was so fast that it didn’t matter. Well friendships fell apart and those dogs have almost all been killed. My old lead dog Dum Dum was one of them, and I had his littermate sister who I put up and retired after he got killed. There’s only one other original female and the guy that has her burned bridges with everyone so she might as well be dead. There was only one attempt to further this line by anyone else. The guy that owned the original male took a female from the cross back to her dad.

There is only one dog still alive from that cross, a male. He’s been absolutely wrecked and is crippled now. His back leg had the Achilles’ tendon severed and he has no use of it, and every inch of him is scarred up and battered. He is still a machine in the woods and will pull hogs out of thin air. Well he is the nephew to my female, as well as her half brother. A guy I know recently bought the dog and so we locked them up. These pups (if she took, I’m crossing my fingers and praying on this one) will have the original male 3x and the original female 2x and be bred extremely tight. If all goes well, there will be an established line that I will continue after these pups get old enough to prove themselves.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210805/2456dd3c938f71272c6f85ce85dcc123.jpg)


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Nice looking pair of dogs bud


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It wouldn't hurt to take a female off that cross back to sire and a male back to the dame, tighten the lighten up real tight when your first starting to establish it and being as they are a few more off kin (2-3 generations removed from same common ancestor, 1st and 2nd cousins, aunts and uncles) you could be able to do what I call the wagon wheel method of breeding, starting from a solid tight core (hub) and having branches to go down (spokes) all while keeping it in the same circle( wheel), play your cards right and you won't have to worry about breeding yourself into a corner with each new generation and be able to stay within the same core gene pool...

Thanks guys. Goose, that’s sorta the plan. I am hoping to take a good female back to the male from this cross and continue to grow the line out as well as down so that there are more options. This pairing was the stars aligning since there are no other dogs that can make this cross to continue the blood from the original crosses. I’ve thought about how to do this for years and it looks like it will finally work out


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Great things come to good folks who try do all the right things and at all the right times and who are willing to devote the patience, hoping this works out for you, just judging by knowing you on here these last few years you've definitely earned my respect, keeping up with you on here and following your journey with your dogs. Keep it up brother your investment of all the sweat equity you've paid in is not far from starting to pay you great dividends, not speaking in dog power but one day looking at where your at and what you got In this game and then reflecting on the journey you traveled getting there the adventures the dogs have taken you and the memories made and the feeling of accomplishment that comes with it is the greatest return on investment you'll ever receive...

Thanks for the kind words Goose! Before I even joined this forum I spent months and literally read through every single thread on the site. I’ve learned so much from ETHD, it has been a huge help and a lot of fun. I tell people all the time that my passion is the dogs and watching a good one work. We have to kill almost all of the hogs we catch, but I could care less about killing one. I try to just sit back and watch my dogs while someone else does the knifing. I just hope that one day I have a yard full of my own mutts that work exactly how I want them too. I’ve got a set of young dogs right now that are off a breeding I did last year. They’re not tight at all but the two males I kept are impressing everyone that has hunted with them, and they’re just under 12 months old. I am wanting to roll the dice and use them as an outcross in to these Bo Betty dogs once they’re tightened up some more. They would bring some more size to these black dogs, and they have an insane amount of drive and endurance. I don’t want to derail this thread though, so I will create a new one. I’d like to hear more about the wagon wheel method of breeding.

-Austin


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