EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Hound or cur and why you prefer one over the other

I can’t say I prefer either one over the other...I like a well bred Mt cur...second choice...Mt cur x Plott or walker...

I like consistency in how they hunt, wind and how they work a track...I like enough bottom to get the job done...whether it is 5 minutes or 5 hours or longer...I don’t mind open on track as long as it isn’t wide open...I prefer opening  3 times on a hot track and then shutting up...this will pack the dogs up which I like...

bottom line...I’ll take a hound or cur if they are outstanding hog dogs...

Same as what Reuben said. Dose not matter if it is a hound or a Cur as long as it is a hog dog and suits you. I used to have a line of curs that could do it all. They had nose, hunt and all the stick you could stand but my last good one just could not reproduce himself so I have stayed with the Plotts and they do suit my style of hunting better. If you have a lot of hogs,  a good cur is the way to go. If you track hunt or cast a lot a hound fits the bill and I am not saying cur dogs do not cast. Then there are the crossed up cur x hound crosses where sometimes you get the best of both worlds. Basicly, whatever suits you.

Agree with Reuben. There are good examples of both.
-
I currently hunt a full blood hound on Coon. I enjoy hearing a hound trail one up, locate, stay treed, and have the grease. I like their hunt, independent/indifferent attitude, the big mouth, and determination to finish what they start. It takes time, repetition, and patience to start, train, and finish a hound. It’s also nice to just throw a tracking collar on one dog to go hunt & catch/tree game. My experience tells me that I would need more time to hunt and bigger places to hunt in order to run full blooded hounds on hogs. Those luxuries are not available to me.
-
I hunt curs & catahoula running walker crosses on hogs for my find/bay dogs. I like the handle and silent trailing these dogs provide me. They learn fast and don’t require a lot of woods time to start, train, & finish. I can pretty much control how and where these dogs hunt.
-
Some of the best hog dogs I have seen go are hound/cur crosses. I hope to try some 3/4 cur, 1/4 hound or even 7/8 cur, 1/8 hounds on hogs at some point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

X2 on everything said. Seen good, bad, and ugly in every breed. My liking is the cross. The best, most well rounded dogs I've hunted with have been crossed. But again, there are good ones in all of them.

Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

I prefer silent dogs. They suit me better. I can catch more hogs with them where I normally hunt because and how I hunt. But I’ve hunted with the hound men and its gotten wild, the amounts of hogs we can catch together is crazy. A good hound can find some the curs won’t ever smell and hang with them longer. The curs can shut em down quick if they wanna stop. To each his own. Whatever a man prefers to hunt and happy to feed is what is best. A hog dog is a hog dog, no need to argue or debate the characteristics that contribute to that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Id have to say my BMCs have as much bottom and endurance as any hound ive seen, and i hunt with some good half hounds my friends use, I think curs bay better for sure. Sometimes that little bit of open helps getting the pups out but in general I hate them opening up like "most" do

I’d love to see a pack of good yella dogs! They are few and far between on this side of the Mississppi River. I know y’all have em out there somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're not going to see the difference in bottom and endurance as much hunting hogs as you would certain other types of game like bear. I'm sure there are BMC's out there that can make the really long races but on average and in general I don't think they are even comparable. But most aren't running hogs for six plus hours on one race nor care to so there is no need for that kind of bottom or endurance anyways.

Some breeds and strains just do certain things better than other breeds or strains on average. I have heard of people who have worked cattle with a certain hound or two of theirs but I wouldn't say that hounds on average make as good of cow dogs as certain strains of cur either. There are always exceptions but I am speaking in generalities here.

I like Curs that hunt like hounds and hounds that hunt like curs if that makes sense.

Makes good sense to me...

Red nose, I don't know if I completely agree with that. Texas heat is brutal. It takes a special dog to be able to go 6 or 8 hours in it. I don't mean trot from shade to shade. I'm talking about sure enough working. I saw my old Yonder gyp bay several hogs one morning. It was 90 at sun up and 100+ by noon and she's turning the crank wide open. The last hog left the country and at 2pm when I got to her 2 miles away in a waist high rolling briar patch, she was still hitting every lick like clock work and as I lead her out she was still standing on hind legs winding wanting to go. I've done this long enough to know all dogs, no matter what breed can't do that. I do think hounds have the edge when it comes to bottom, it's one of the reasons my dogs carry it. I know bears can go miles at a pretty good clip, but geography and climate conditions can sure enough test bottom too. There are so many things that can weigh in but I'm talking about dogs that are well cared for and legged up.

Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

Tdog then I would respectfully disagree with you and I do mean respectfully because I know your experience and also honesty with your dogs. Though I believe you about your yonder dog, though I thought she had hound in her but I guess she didn't, could she or better yet could the majority of your kennel that aren't crossed with hounds do that two or three days in a row like a high percentage of running walkers could have? Doubtful but maybe but even if she could, that would just make her an exception. Also you say several hogs, so even though she may be running that whole morning that is still not the same test of bottom as running the same piece of game for 6+ hours straight, and I think that is where you will find the biggest difference in hounds and curs. I know a lot of curs have great stamina but bottom not as much. I'm sorry but it's going to be tough to convince me that on average curs especially stock bred curs have the bottom of hounds especially Running Walkers, July's, or Triggs. But its a great discussion and I am always open to having my mind changed.

These days and times the places are getting smaller to hunt...more traffic and more folks building their homes where we hunt...finding places to hunt in my neck of the woods makes me want to give it up...

But the type of dogs I like to hunt has not changed...they are July or Trigg but I have high expectations...back throughout the 1990s and up to 2006 I had Mt curs that could run one most of the day if needed...if they weren’t in shape like hunting at least once or twice a week the potential was there that they would stroke out and die from the heat before they quit...it was rumored that “Manning’s Texas Smoke, a world champion coon and squirrel dog had walker blood in him even though he was a registered Mt cur but I sure liked that bloodline...the kemmer Mt cur probably had PLOTT in them and I liked those two lines crossed together...Joe Manning also used his dogs on bear...
I saw one stock bred dog that was as good of hog dog I ever seen...his name was Nugget...he didn’t look like the average BMC...he was a reddish gold colored dog with a decent ear to him...a striking machine that could keep one from breaking bay...

I'm not in disagreement about the hounds having more bottom as a whole than the curs. Yes she could do it multiple days in a row as could many of my dogs. You can't lay hands on a dog in my kennel that doesn't have hound in it. I had a friend that works cattle everyday that took a pup. I mean hunt'em up cattle too, not sight cattle. At a year old she was his lead dog. Said she would wear out a couple of good sets of dogs in a day and he used her 4 to 5 days a week. When he would send them to water the other dogs would fall out in it and she would hit a couple of laps as she ran through it and straight back to work. I could give example after example of different bottom in these dogs. I know this example is different than a bear hunt, but a dog without true bottom doesn't have the ability to do this. I'm by no means saying my dogs are all that, just using them as an example because they are mine. What I was disagreeing with was hogs not testing true bottom. I have seen more than one hound out of some good gene pools holler "no mas", not because their heart was tested but because their physical ability was. Don't misunderstand, I know bear hunting is tough I'm not making lite of it. I'm just respectfully disagreeing that you can definitely test true bottom hog hunting.

I have seen curs of all kinds with good noses and hunt, etc. To me the biggest difference in the hounds and curs is self preservation. The curs, as a whole, have a stronger self preservation instinct than the hounds. Many hounds will literally kill themselves to catch/tree/bay their quarry. When it gets hot, many curs don't hunt nearly as hard or deep as when the weather is more favorable. I have hunted with several cur dogs that were top dogs in the fall and winter but when it got hot they were duds. If they hunted it was minimal compared to what they did in the cooler weather and would quit a race they would typically finish. Again, there are curs that aren't like this. I'll bet if you look far enough back though, there is a hound influence somewhere.

Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

I see what you are saying Tdog and agree with you on most of it and I have seen your dogs go and they are fast and the only time I've seen them not finish a race is when they get cut down or their is no stopping them, really good dogs as you know I really like them personally, and I am a cur dog man its just not all breeds or strains are equal at everything. And on average most BMC's will not have the same bottom Running Walkers will. And it's a simple answer of why, because they have not been bred to have it.

Also I never said a hog couldn't test bottom I said you won't see them test it as often as other types of game. On average they just don't run as long usually though they can on occasion and I wouldn't argue against that. Once again I am talking generalities. I am also not saying bear hunting is the hardest I think it has it challenges just like hog hunting and cat hunting do as well. It is just the game that I have personally seen test true bottom most consistently.

I agree with that now. I'm no bear expert. Our hogs may only go a couple miles away but it might cover 5 or 6 miles in between in some of these thicker areas. They will make circle after circle sometimes and because it's so thick the dogs can't get up on them quick so they get a chance to squat and catch their breath. Take a bay until a second dog gets there or they hear the catch dog coming then off again. My dogs pull hair but they aren't going to put themselves in a bad spot. When the hog finally decides they aren't going to quit and pulls up stakes is when he makes a mistake. But there can be lots of thick brush busting in a run, again a little different from the running dogs. But you are right, they've been bred for bottom and they do well hog hunting and even better crossed, IMO. OH and by the way, I didn't take it as you were putting my pot lickers down. I will keep protecting you when your hunting with me!

On a cowdog...these cowboys came down trying to sell purebred weatherford Ben dogs and they also had a redbone x BMC and they went on and on about what a cowdog he was...the owner said he wouldn’t take 5 grand for him...he was an all day find a cow deep in the woods cowdog that could work a big herd of cows as well...

oh thats what you were doing when you were climbing that tree???  ;D Now I just have to figure out how to get Raylynn from you hahahaha.

Never met a hound with style. And I like style


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like a hound cur cross all my dogs are about 3\4 hound they hunt out a few hundred yard still check in longer you sit the further they go sometimes you will have to go to them . I can still pull a quick hunt with them if I pick them up after they check in the 1st or 2nd time. Alot hound these days I've seen aren't any better than a good cur but when you find a good hound they are hard to beat but you better bring plenty of beer you may be there a while and they sound so good grinding out a cold trail.

We've always been cur dog men. When were hog hunting, we are there to "catch" them , not "run" them all over the pasture with a bunch of useless noise ;D  That being said, every cur dog I have ever fed has had some hound bred into them, Redbone to be exact. ;) Lot's of different ways to produce pork though. Hunt 'um up boys

Why redbone exactly? What’s the thoughts behind that?

In our opinion, little less mouthy than others, little more streamlined, and real good in and around water. Plus, they was plenty of them around where I am from. Walker dogs were used some in lines North of us.