EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Galveston Tribune September 1 1908
Page 6 Classified Advertising section

“Stud Dogs-PITBULL TERRIERS
JIP a pure white dog, weight in condition 42 pounds, winner of three battles one lasting 2 hours and five minutes, 1 hour & 37 minutes and the last one one hour and 52 minutes.
Has as good pedigree as any dog in America, is a fine looker!
SEAWALL ROWDY pure white dog, 60 pounds, son of the best catchweight dog ever imported to this country.
A grand pedigree is his, best looking dog to ever walk this island!
Have a number of extra fine pups for sale.
Also a lot of pitgame stags and pullets that are crossed and recrossed, containing the blood of the best fighting strains that ever carried steel to a pit!
Anyone interested in above stock would do well to look them over or address
W.J. Niemeyer Chutes park Galveston

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Interesting is that the only place I could find any mention of Mr.Niemeyer’s dogs is in a 1910 AKC stud book listing for BullTerriers.

ROWDY III AKC # 139,320

https://www.google.com/books/edition/American_Kennel_Club_Stud_Book_Register/fn8uAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=w+j+niemeyer+galveston+seawall+rowdy&pg=RA3-PA191&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=w%20j%20niemeyer%20galveston%20seawall%20rowdy&f=false

Here is a picture of British Demon sire of Seawall Rowdy, he died in a match but I can’t find any many details on him or any of his other progeny.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gallerypictures/152136.jpg

I have have learned a lot from the bulldog men on here and just thought this might be interesting to those who “fancy” the breed and it’s history.


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That’s pretty neat right there


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  Thanks T-dog, I was actually digging around for stuff about Jack Johnson when I came across this.

Galveston turn of the century must have been something.

My dad had a lot of family in Galveston at time and lived there himself until he was in about the 6th or 7th grade I think. His Uncle owned the Seaview Restaurant down on the sea wall. He tells me stories now and then about it. He said it was gang oriented back then even. He told me he remembers a time that a group of older kids were chasing him home from school. His dad was standing out on the front steps and seen it. He said about the time he got to the steps himself, his dad stepped inside the house and locked the door on him so he had no choice but to fight. LOL


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Dog fighting has and always will be for white trash and n#ggers ;)  Has no business even being mentioned on a "working dog" forum. This is my opinion, of course.

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 I don’t condone dogfighting but I was called white trash as a kid by people who seem to live to hate for no damn good reason.


 This ad was from a newspaper that Is over a hundred years old, I never promoted dog fighting in any way when writing about it.

 I just found it interesting that a Pitbull found its way into the AKC studbooks.

 The American Pitbull terrier has had its genetics added to who knows how many “working dog” breeds, so it’s history is of interest to me, just my opinion.

There is a thing known as  “Historical Context” it doesn’t mean you want to bring back the past.

Ironic is that I found that ad whole reading about the trouble Jack Johnson went through having a white woman for a wife,
I am sure you have an enlightened opinion on that as well…..

As for your “opinion” well as you can see I was raised right so I would not give a squirt of piss for what someone like you thinks about dogs or anything else for that matter.

 So I will end this with a quote from the first black American heavyweight champion, born and raised to. Galveston Texas….

“As I grew up, the white boys were my friends and my pals. I ate with them, played with them and slept at their homes. Their mothers gave me cookies, and I ate at their tables. No one ever taught me that white men were superior to me." J.J.






 


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Well put Hunting Heritage, well put.

And you know what they say about opinions, they're like as$holes and elbows, everybody's got them, your quick judgement and use of derogatory terms when referring to different ethnicities and cultures of individual, says a lot about your character and morals, but yet you label other as trash, the hypocrisy in itself should be humbling, but then again it's to be expected from some folks, they just can't help themselves and some just don't know any better, and furthermore your mentioning of a "working dog" and game dogs having no business even being mentioned in the same place again just goes to show everyone your ineptitude to actually know, understand, and comprehend the history and origins behind just about every breed and discipline of working dogs, so blinded by your own sub conscience needs to feel as if in some way your higher than others on the totem pole of life that you have the right to look down on others for whatever reason you tell yourself, yes there's good and bad individuals in every aspect of life that easily put a stigma on others, and those who believe such stigmas are of the weak minded sheeple, before you feel the need to feel higher than another and look down on someone as if you're in someway better than them how about stopping and ask yourself just who the F are you and what have you done for the betterment of society and mankind as whole, how have you contributed and what kind of impact do you make on the roads of life we all travel, I truly feel sympathy for individuals with mindsets such as yours who can never see the bigger picture of life, not putting down on or trash talking any type of sport where there's different levels and forms violence, and not condemning any culture or heritage or way of life, but I  will say this, you can't force or make a dog become great at anything it doesn't want to naturally do against its own free will, whether it be in the box or the bushes, however I can't recall any time at all or any documentation throughout history of the sport of rodeo that there's ever been a breed of cattle developed or anyone particular individual calf that naturally wanted to have a rope attached to an 1100 lb horse thrown around their neck while running full speed and come to sudden stop jerked off their feet or thrown to the ground and have their feet restrained by a piece of rope, all because an individual wanted to show case their own individual skill at something, so next time you feel the need to compare apples and oranges how about dumping out the whole fruit basket, nuts and all, but then again that might be a little to advanced for you....

You couldn’t have spoken that better, Goose.


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I would say thanks for the compliment, but in actuality it saddens my soul to have to respond to statements like that from folks that are so low that even mosquitos look down on them , and there's nothing complimentary about that, I try my hardest to only conjure positivity in everything I do, from my own personal thoughts all the way to what and why and with what intent in which I do something and don't dwell on or give negativity of any kind any of my energy or attention, in this day and time and seeing what humanity is coming to also often takes a lot of prayer for patience , but I find it almost impossible to restrain myself from responding to BS such as that, the ones who want to point out and talk about the twig in someone else eye but can't see the stick poking out of their own and especially from a guy like Mr. Wan A.B. Throwbach here, who can only regurgitate the opinions of others,  Austesus you will learn in life that some folks just don't have the capability to be their own leaders and can only follow the lead of the ones they idolize....

There is a bad apple in every bunch...

They have been baked into this great American apple pie as well.

Sometimes they can be caught by the sorter and discarded before the pie is tainted.

Warrent, your ‘worm’ is showing letting everyone see your core has been hollowed out and is rotten...

The thing about it is most every cur line has some bull dog in them at some point as do many other breeds. I would say bulldogs as a whole are the most capable breed there is. And that came from hundreds of yrs of battle. Everyone has the right in America to have there own thoughts. But a narrow mind brings narrow opinions


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Hunting heritage,
I knew I’d seen some historical pics of jack Johnson posted a couple weeks ago on a channel I follow.
 
I hope the link works...

One of him and his wife and their white pitbull as well.

 https://youtube.com/user/RicardoGrice (https://youtube.com/user/RicardoGrice)

When you get to the page click the ‘community’ tag and scroll down to two weeks ago and there are two posts in a row with about ten photos of jack johnson

Thanks Semmes I am a bit of a boxing historian, especially the olde time stuff.
I just bought a copy of “Jack Johnson is a dandy” and I even have a digital copy of Jack Dempsey’s book.

 


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If you like boxing history look into Willie pep


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Judge that is what I find so interesting about these dogs, especially back when the game dog world was at its peak, there were many outstanding Bulldogs outside the pit.

 Before Lucenay’s Pete the pup the first Dog Star on the big screen was silent film actor Fatty Arbuckle’s “Jake the dog”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iz9ELYR7cg



 A Pitbull accompanied the first men to cross America by automobile, his dog-goggles are in the Smithsonian.

 People from Jack Johnson to Hellen Keller owned pitbulls and everyone in between.

But that’s all common knowledge,
I’m more interested in the “forgotten” history.


“Dam-it the dog” was the unofficial mascot of Hardin-Simmons University in Abiline from  1916-1920.

 
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 He wandered on to the campus and as legend goes, started acting like he owned the place.

In the days before Air Conditioning classrooms kept their doors open and Dam-it would roam the campus coming and go as he pleases.

 He was beloved by the students and staff, upon his passing he was buried on campus grounds and a headstone was erected that reads….

“Dam-it he is dead”


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Willie Pep, Will-o’- Wisp, one of the early defensive masters, he was a great one.

It is said Willie Pep once won a round without throwing a punch….

Big fan of the old time fighters, they were cut from a different cloth!


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I second this post Peel...
While I lean right on economics, I lean left in the social realm. I guess that makes me a libertarian on politics. But this is America and everyone has the freedom here to think and voice their opinions. So I support that and I have the right to voice my own.
That’s what makes this the greatest country in the world.
I take notes and follow both sides equally. The real voices are being squashed by the mainstream media and positions on both sides. They play to the extremes. They are the reason this country is tearing apart and more divided now that when we grew up...

Politics is tearing this country apart. I hate to see it when most folks could and do get along on a personal level just trying to make ends meet.

I called out warrent but yes he is welcome to his own views in this country.

You have always been a sane voice on here. Much respect..,

Big difference between "Pit" Bulldogs and Bulldogs where I come from. One was bred to fight and the other was bred to work, period.

Let me broaden my brush. Dog fighting is not only for white trash and n#ggers, but also every other race's "trash". Again, this is only my opinion and also the opinion of those "Crackers" I was raised around ;) I have no problem offending those who need offending :o

SHOOOO fly......

No one here needs offending, you just need to learn when your opinion is out of line with what is being discussed.

 You haven’t seen a single reply saying anyone wanted to legalize dog fighting.

 There are quite a few people across the world using BullTerriers to catch hogs, while that may not be something you approve of either they are doing it and a look at that breed’s history was all I was trying to start a discussion about.

   But here you are coming back trying to stir the pot with your “broad brush” looking for a fight with people you probably have more in common with than opposed?

  If you can’t see where you are wrong and then man up and apologize, you should seek entertainment elsewhere.


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Same dogs used for different things make no mistake about it if the Irish guy 300 yrs ago hadn’t been using those dogs in a game manner you would even be talking bout a bulldog period end of story. And cuts along with many other breeds would be lackluster


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Very good point Judge IMHO
  any Bulldogs used by Florida Crackers that didn’t have “half and half” blood would have been descended from bullbaiting dogs in the olde world, they didn’t just spring up out of the ground.


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Judge ...theres a guy on FB that uses 5 pits on cattle just like a cowdog. Lol yeah a good bulldog is well worth its weight. And like you said thanks to the Irish lad that started because you are exactly right. From what ive read and heard there is quite afew breeds that have bulldog in em. APBT.

My buddy use them on cows 30 yrs ago. I never seen it but he said they was dam good. I did see a bulldog win a bay competition one time


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You can call them Pitbull or bulldogs…it is a figure of speech…pit dog fighting is against the law…even the illegal has slowed down by the looks of it…

I will say that 40 years ago you could pick up any Pitbull dog from the pound and it made a pretty good catch dog…why would that be? It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out these dogs weren’t very far removed from the pit…

You go to the pound today and pick one up and it might make a catch dog and then maybe not…

The good ones…Pound for pound I don’t think they can be beat…we have to rely on the serious catch dog breeders that select for the high drive fearless bulldog…

Ya that’s true on the pound thing. I never really heard the pit bull term unless I was talking to a non bulldog person


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Delehant and Feely dogs had a big influence on our more modern bulldogs, especially Feely. The most prepotent bulldog of alltime had a lot of Con Feely's blood in him.

Semmens you know I am 100% on the right but things that the left believe don’t up set me although I would strongly banter on some subjects some have no bearing on my life so they don’t bother me. There are many different ways to live your life in this country and that’s why I am proud to have served my country for 8 yrs. a fella told me one time when I was young if you believe one way and don’t vote no matter the out come your not helping your hurting. Back to the bulldog stuff you sure know your dogs and where they come from I just never been a name jerker or super technically worded. More of a break glass when needed type. I tryed bout 15 yrs ago to get a American Bulldog for catch dog went thru a few never did work out for me but I am thinking bout getting one later on you know of any good breeders that have good ones


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Judge

Man I couldn’t tell ya what is going on with the AB nowadays nor in the last ten years. I quit keeping track...

The community used to have a message board just like this one. It was called true grit. Mike was a member. We all used to talk dogs and lines and the old school folks were on there. It was a wealth of history. I spent many years following shows and working dogs in different venues. Met most of the originators of the breed. Went thru a lot of dogs myself.

While I can look at a pedigree and tell you what my opinion is...sometimes I can see a dog and just puck out how it’s bred. It’s been ten years since I kept up.

Everyone went to Facebook after truegrit shut down. I don’t do Facebook.
I was kinda a pariah anyway because I went against the grain of a lot of the origin sales pitch thing. Just my humble beliefs.

Never sold an ab myself. But like you most I bought didn’t work out. Love the good ones and hate the bad ones, but most fall somewhere in between like most breeds. Especially a composite breed like the ab.

I will tell ya that the best ones I had were given to me for free or I paid very little comparatively to the market price....

There is a reason I breed my bull mutts now. Which are definitely not refined, especially at the snails pace I have breed them. But in defense, the American Bulldog had yet to be refined even after 60 years of line breeding mutts... Jmo

I’m kinda a Bulldog history buff after all these years. And I find the apbt history much more interesting.
A lot of those dogs in history, probably bull mutts themselves, didn’t rely on a lot of hype or history or family province. They just let true performance sort it out. Then bred on them and the performance of the offspring gave merit to the proceeding dog and do on until it gave merit to a line. Kinda how it should be done I suppose...

Btw... I used to love to see the pics and the stories of that old buckskin male you had... forgot his name.

...he sure was a good un

I still got him he old and slow now days but he will still get it done when I take him


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