EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Hey guys, I’m starting this thread so that I don’t see-rail the “pit-cur mixes” thread. I’ll start by providing some background on these dogs I’m working with.

The original male - Bo is the original sire. He is a papered Ladner BMC that my buddy started, trained, and kept on his yard for quite a few years. He was a cold nosed dog with more bottom than most people, including myself, would ever want. There have been many a time where a farmer picked him up 10+ miles from where his track was lost. The very first time I went hog hunting was behind him and he ran a hog for 12 hours, zig zagging back and forth over the river and through some really nasty terrain until we finally called him off after not getting the hog to stop. This was in an area that was hunted 12 hours a day 7 days a week and was known for some of the hardest running hogs around. He was open with a soft bark every 20-30 seconds and was a pretty loose baying dog. He was referred to as a superstar by men with much more dog experience than me and had numerous offers of $5,000 for him that were turned down. He was also a solid producer and has sired some really great dogs. The last I heard he was blind and still hunting 800 yards out and stopping hogs. Here are a few pictures of him.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/9db3dcbcb8993defe7775adc7ef8b132.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/0dec442eed42a600dd675ed3d357621f.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/c7309155591a5c6dec206ab74179775d.jpg)


The original female - Black Betty was the female thrown to him to create what everyone refers to as Bo Betty’s. I don’t have as much info on her, as I never personally got to hunt behind her before she died. From what I’ve been told she was as good of a RCD as you could ask for, and was around 75lbs. The story goes that the first time she was hunted was when she was 8 months old and she ran down a deer and killed it. She killed a lot of the hogs she caught before anyone could get to them. (We have to kill everything we catch here so that wasn’t a problem, I know for some of you guys that would be a negative.) I was told she comes from some old blood by the name of Wooten (?). Her lineage is supposed to go back to some old fighting lines. Seeing as how 99% of her offspring have been killed while still locked on to a hog and often times standing in their own guts, I don’t doubt that she was a true game dog. This is the only picture I could find of her.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/c244b04b034fcee3a17c39d66062dcf2.jpg)

The Bo Betty cross - these two dogs were bred 3 times. Out of those 3 litters every pup that lived to mature made good to great dogs. Probably 25% of them were killed when they were still under 2 years old. The vast majority were 100% catch and were suicidal. My old lead dog Dum Dum was a male from the 3rd litter. There were two times that he didn’t immediately catch out. One was the first time he came across a whole sounder. I heard him chop a few times and thought he must’ve gotten wrecked by a boar. By the time I got there I figured out that he had just been confused for a second and he had already eared up on a nice boar. The second time was shortly before his death, he was getting a little smarter. He stopped a small (150ish pound) boar with some big shanks but himself and in a nasty spot. The boar had knicked him and he backed up and let out one single bark and once he saw other dogs he caught out.

Out of all of the pups there was only one that wasn’t 100% silent, Moyo. He was fast enough that it didn’t matter, he stopped most hogs he started. He unfortunately was killed when he was around 2-2.5 years old if I recall correctly. The rest of them won’t bark at all behind a hog. They all came out looking like clones as well.

The two that I owned were from the final litter. Dum Dum and Mine. Both of them would hunt in circles at 300 yards. If they passed 345ish they were running a track. Those two dogs produced a good bit of hogs for me and really made me love the dog work. They were all of my hunting buddies favorite dogs too lol. Unfortunately Dum Dum was killed by my bulldog at the house in bad series of events that were a big learning lesson for me. After that his sister was retired to save the blood. As of right now there are only two females that are still alive from the original 3 litters. Mine, and a female that was sold to a guy who burned bridges with everyone I associate with. So, Mine is the last living female from the original crosses as far as I’m concerned. She was bred one time by accident to my old bull dogs brother and the one pup that lived is a hell of a RCD at only 38ish pounds. Punk is almost a clone of her mom except for the color of her coat.

This past year I found out about a dog I didn’t know existed. There was a female from the 2nd litter named Nala, she was a jam up dog. The guy that owned Bo took her back to him and produced a dog named Cash. A guy I know just bought Cash from his previous owner a few months ago. He sent me a message and next thing you know we were locking up Cash and Mine. Cash is her nephew as well as her half brother. I have not personally hunted with the dog, but men that I trust have spoken very very highly of him. He was wrecked by a big boar and the previous owner retired him to being a farm dog. The guy that has him know has been hunting him even with one of his back legs having a severed Achilles’ tendon and not working, and he has been producing hogs left and right. I have heard from multiple people that this dog is one of the best they’ve hunted behind. If all goes well this litter will produce some great dogs and bring more of the blood back to work with.

Dum Dum -
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/2473004f6c164dccf62a3729f1178a26.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/9a284b483f46543d21098a6529bfb83c.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/767f512d5f067e7a36ec267bfaf4c0ab.jpg)


Mine -
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/35382bfafb74813ed2847d416aca450b.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/cf3f4eed2798cff2de99cd1625381aec.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/74b8b30ff6ce765447dfc0eede2edb37.jpg)

Dum Dum and Mine -
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/e2ff28309dc5b799d21a0b1bfbd00946.jpg)

Punk (Mine’s accidental daughter) on her first hog -
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/bafd4f3879d7443b406d5ab91aea53ae.jpg)

Moyo -
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/d5bf3ec84420068e6a2d1cf2f2434286.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/22ba22712d4fe5b0a121725354e34d59.jpg)



Nala -

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/9da72adc2bc5183f5108117c10fe777b.jpg)

Cash (Nala line bred back to Bo) -
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/4f4bf9b01de559432bfce7435803448c.jpg)

The future of this blood, Cash x Mine -
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/db1b8630d9847c546df178f56314e5e7.jpg)


My mentor started this blood, and trusted me with it. Now I want to do my best to tighten and perfect it. Mine belongs to me, and is hopefully about to drop pups in the next few months. They were locked up about 2 weeks ago now. Cash will still be available for breeding if he stays alive. He’s got a pretty bad track record of getting injured. Mine will never hunt again. She’s proven herself, so now she’s being kept for the blood. I think I’ll only be able to keep one pup, so I’m planning on a female. The rest will go to trusted friends so I should have access to breed back to any of them.

For those of you guys that have created and maintained a tight line of dogs, what would be your next step? Of course that is on the hope that this litters turns out dogs worthy of breeding. If you’ve read this whole novel and made it this far, thanks! Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s early on in establishing a family from this cross. One of your best tools is to sit down with pen and paper and make some lists. One list is to right down what you are wanting to produce in style and type. Another list needs to be dogs that you have breeding access to out of this family. List the owner, list the dogs size and body type, list their style and even grade their style. By grade I mean on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the best, grade the attributes that are important to you. An example would be:

Dum Dum (male)
Bo x Betty
Owner - Myself
Color - Black
Was this dog was the norm of the litter/ or the exception/ or somewhere in the middle in style and ability

Body type - square head with decent muzzle length. Square symmetry with high tight flanks and deep, well sprung ribs. Muscular with decent leg ( neither exceptionally long or short).

Style - extremely rough a 9 on a scale of 1-10. Only barked a two hogs in his career or would be a ten.

Nose - 7
Bottom- 7/8
Brains - 9
Disposition- 9

Faults - couldn’t find hogs when there were non to be found. Should’ve invented one if he was serious about finding one.

Do each dog like this. You have to be able to be honest about each dog no matter the sentimental attachments. Some faults can be compensated for depending on what they are and how severe. I don’t care how related they are, every dog is not going to be the same quality, not every dog is going to turn out. Look at the Old Man’s young plott gyp that he’s wanting to send down here to me because he doesn’t want to send her to the Louisiana swamps because she isn’t a lab. All of her kin are hard footed hustlers. She too is a hustler but lacks the feet to do well in the rocky hills he hunts. She is one out a whole bunch but it goes to show there are always subtle differences from dog to dog even in an established line. She may or may not pass that characteristic on to her pups but why chance it’s if she has a sister that doesn’t have her problem and is of about the same caliber? She’ll do great things down here in flat Texas I’m sure. You are in a corner as I see it already. Your gene pool is very small so you don’t have much if any wiggle room. I see you having to bring in some outside blood  to continue this project and what you bring in will have to be dependent on what you are trying to accomplish in style and type and where the strengths and weaknesses of your current dogs are. If they are exactly what you want then you probably need to search hard for something that is as similar as you can get to them to cross into them. If they are a little lacking in an area then find something that could strengthen that weakness. I would recommend a family and not a single scatter bred dog for this. I would probably use a couple of dogs from an outside family and I would probably use a male and female. You could completely different results depending on what you use male/ female and you may not be able to tell any difference. You have to remember that at the end of the day, breeding is a crap shoot. All you can do with strategy and pedigrees is try to improve your odds of success. The rest of it is up to Mother Nature. So judge your pups strictly, keep them close so you can evaluate them with your own eyes. Don’t take the word of anyone else unless you know they have a stricter standard or is a better dog person. If 3 people watch a dog hunt and evaluate it, you will likely get 3 different evaluations. Being that it’s your breeding program, they need to fit your wants. Be smart enough to listen to other evaluations though. Do these things before you decide what your next breeding is. I’ve had the family I hunt for 25+ years. I NEVER think they are perfect or that they are exactly what I want them to be but I am proud of them and I know that slight tweaking is all I need to do with each breeding to make them better. I also have the next 2 or 3 breedings in mind before they happen. Sometimes those change according to failures or style differences or a different need that had developed. I have raised several very solid litters, but the litter of 7 month olds that I just raised are on course to be my best yet. They are shaping up to be the closest thing to my ideal type yet. There were 5 males and 3 females. All of them are put together very nice and seem to really want to work. I know one of them has found a hog twice already. He was turned out while the guy was mowing so he could run around. After not seeing him for about 20 minutes he went looking for him and the pup had a 3 legged sow bayed down behind his deer stand. The next time the guy had someone feeding for him while he was gone on vacation. The kid didn’t latch his kennel back good and the next day when he came to feed the pup was gone. He looked and looked for him and finally heard him. He went to him and he was down on the creek baying a boar hog and had already been cut. I’m getting the same feed back and videos from everyone I placed them with. The one I considered a cull was maybe the most beautiful of all and even she is going to make a dog. She just had a crappy personality (shy). I gave her to the biggest, ugliest sucker you can imagine so I’m sure that doesn’t make matters any better. He told me the other day she still is a little leary when he calls her. I told heck she thinks a Sasquatch is calling her. She doesn’t know if she’s gonna be pet or eaten! I hope this long winded advice helps. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With their record for having short lives you'd better keep more than one and hunt them separately or it will soon be back to the drawing board. It is really hard to keep and maintain a "strain" of dogs unless you keep several on the yard besides those you stash with friends.

Thanks for the reply T-Dog! It definitely is a hard predicament right now with the lack of dogs still alive or available to breed in to. I think it is due to nobody in SC using dogs for a living (that I know of) but guys around here just don’t breed tight or have families and lines of dogs. At most you may see someone throw a pup back to her dad, but then that’s where it stops. I’m the only person I know that is trying to create a true line. Everyone else just scatter breeds random dogs that they like. I have two male pups off of my litter from last year. The parents were un related. The mom was a 1/2 pit X 1/2 walker that is scatter bred as far as I know. The dad is a 3/4 east Texas black mouth and 1/4 bird dog that came from Justin Corbell from on here. This male was from an outcross he made from his family of dogs.

The two male pups I kept off of that litter have been awesome so far. They’ll be a year old on September 10th. They have what is lacking in the Bo Betty’s (in my opinion.) They have real long legs, real long heads, long necks, and tons of endurance and drive. Dum Dum and Mine’s faults are that after two hard days of hunting they’re completely burnt out and sore. A hard day of hunting and they are pretty well spent. These pups I’ve ran hard and they just don’t stop or get tired. Also I wanted more size in them. These pups will probably end up being a lean 70-75lbs. Plenty of intelligence too. I would like to bring them in to the Bo Betty’s but the hesitation is obviously with them being a crap shoot for genes since they are bred from completely unrelated dogs. Here’s a picture of Red and Ranger. Pictures don’t do them any justice for how tall these pups are.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/2d2eb940d42cc7d5edccecf14ffa9bd2.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210806/c6ae9f62c51735d334b769223147b241.jpg)

That’s a great idea with breaking the dogs down on a list. I will start working on that immediately. Like you, I am trying to plan crosses ahead of time by several generations. If nothing else, it’s fun brainstorming for me. Catching a hog is just the result of the actual fun for me, my passion is in the dogs!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Old Man, I plan to keep a few put up once they have proven themselves. A lot of the guys that ran the ones that were killed never put vests on them, which is partly why they’ve been killed in my opinion. These dogs need a strike vest at a minimum because they’ll catch rank boars even by themselves. Most of them were started real young. I’ve seen them catch boars at only 6 months old which also contributed to some early deaths. I don’t plan to start them that early knowing how rough they are. The two that I got were already a year old and heavily started when I got them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

*to clarify* I ran my two for a long time in only cut colors. Dum Dum started getting cut on his chest sometimes when he would catch a rank boar so he hunted in a vest at the end of his life. His sister just had a good catching style I suppose because she very rarely got cut and when she did it was always a very minor cut. Those dogs were early on when I first started hunting. All of my rough dogs are now in vests. At this point I would not run one without a vest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Im not smart , just my opinion. You started with a bulldog and bmc. You have talked about bringing in different dogs for breeding. Hound cross and bmc birddog cross. You have just added or 3 more breeds. I would think you need to think about what way or what you want you want out of these dogs. Someone else said on here" once  you add salt to the stew you can never get it out."  I would just think about what you are wanting and slow down with breeding. Again just my thoughts.

For a start I would breed the best daughter from Mine and Cash back to Cash…

I would breed the best male or another daughter back to a relative…even a distant relative that hunts the same with same style of grit…get one of those pups and breed back to a 3/4 Cash…or use mine instead of Cash…a 3/4 Mine

RoughCurs,

Thanks for the reply. I did not make the original BMC and Pit cross, I just really liked the dogs produced from that cross since I had the opportunity to hunt behind quite a few of them and then was given the opportunity to own some of them. My goal is really to just continue producing dogs that mirror the original cross, but since they stemmed from two completely different dogs I’m trying to figure out how to branch out the family tree in a manner that will provide more dogs to work with that are all related and stay tight. All while keeping the same traits and not getting back too heavy towards one side or the other.

The hound/pit/bmc/bird pups I have were not bred with the intention on crossing back in to these dogs. I just liked both of the parents and wanted to see if they would throw good pups. I have been really happy with the two males I kept, and they surprised me by coming out bigger than both the parents. If I were to breed them in to these BMC/pit dogs it would be as an outcross and to bring a little more leg and size in to them. Those two male pups have also had a lot of drive and some really good endurance even though they’re just under a year old. Of course my hesitation would be bringing in the unknown variables since they’re so scatter bred. As of right now though, my focus is only on the black dogs for breeding until that line is tightened up and established, and a real family of dogs. These pups still have a ways to go before I would consider them for any kind of breeding, and my focus with them is just giving them the opportunity to become good dogs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reuben,

Thank you for the tips. As of right now I’m definitely planning on taking a female pup back to Cash if all goes well. Of course that is on the hope that this litter proves to be a good one. If all goes well and Mine took, I should have pups hitting the ground around the end of September. All of the pups should be staying close and getting divvied out to some of my buddies that will hunt them hard, so that I can hopefully watch them all develop and hunt behind them so I have a firsthand account of what they are each doing. If this litter comes out anything like the original litters, I should be in good standing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah it's pretty fun and interesting planning crosses and looking ahead. The two pups I have off my dog ranger one is 50% pointer the other is 50% pit. Hopefully they make the mark. I wish I could find a nice female bmc. The only one I have is either to mean for the males to mount or they know she's a bitch lol. Thought about crossing ranger to this bluetick I have but I haven't singled her out yet but a few times. Imo it's all about having one dog you love and keep breeding him to dogs that fill in his blanks. Now what happens after all is said and done years down the road hopefullyyou have exactly what you need. Does anyone notice that black pups have less cull rates?

Ranger over pit x. She's a tiny package but I like what I've seen(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210816/2d85f5cbe23078e6ec8de590ac04cd39.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210816/4cc045e4e7ef1f20da17f3777b70a2e4.jpg)

Sent from my SM-A125U using Tapatalk

Im hoping one day I can finally have a liter of half ranger .16 pit .16 pointer .16 hound. Really would like to find a july. Finding a way to keep it like your trying to do. When I get done Hoping to have the best dog box crapper feet warmer dogs this side of the red River. The pointer in the pic thinks he's a catchdog and always has his head in the wind.

Sent from my SM-A125U using Tapatalk

The higher % of bulldog you mix in there the more independent the dog will be. This is aimed at catching. The less bulldog in the mix the more of a team player the dog will be. Probably the reason they all got killed. I have always had super rough dogs but I don’t like bulldog crosses cuz they tend to be dumb until death


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We crossed bull dog and Mt cur…the Mt cur were very gritty and hard hunting with lots of bottom…they hunted fairly close but would range as far as needed to find a hog…

These dogs were awesome except they didn’t bark…a quarter bulldog would probably been best…

Austin…
If these black dogs were mine I would look really hard at the sire and dam of the future puppies…I would also look very hard at the sire and dams parents and grandparents and then make a decision based on that information as to which side to breed most from…if you like the sire side best then breed more towards his side and vise-versa…

I would also keep what I think are the best 3 or 4 pups for as long as possible…testing nose, ranging and other traits…cut back a pup at 4 months another at 6 and again at 8 months…by then you will probably have a really nice pup…

Females are great to keep for breeding…but you can use a male more often in the breeding pen…

The idea is to get several more generations of top dogs…if you select properly and see that there are a high percentage of good pups in each litter then it is time to move to the next generation for breeding…

The idea here is that you evolved to the next generations in a short time period…
At that time you look back at the pedigree and it will be stacked with top dogs…

I call that purifying the bloodline…once you get to that point there is no reason to turn the dogs over…just breed the same dogs when you need more pups…otherwise you will breed yourself into a corner and will need an outcross…that is when a male comes in handy…outcross a male with the best credentials to a female somewhat related with excellent credentials and pick a pup to breed back into your line or if more pups are available breed to the best of those…a bigger choice for selecting a breeder is nice to have available to you…

Your breeding program can only be as good as you select…training correctly to bring out the best is just as important…the wrong training can ruin a top quality pup and a great opportunity just passed a breeder by…
Knowing what a good hunting dog is is the first thing to know when breeding better dogs…and having a solid plan on what and why to breed is important to know as well…

Many breeders will have 4 generations in 20 years…if done right you can have 3 generations on one side and 4 or the other side in five years…and you will be producing a high percentage of good pups…

I bred a line of dogs in this way back when I was younger…

Cheston, I like the looks of that black dog. I have a soft spot for red, yella, or black! Haha. I hope you have some good luck with the ones you have.

Judge, actually all of the dogs born from the original 3 litters would hunt very good with other dogs. They were really good about honoring another dog and packing up, and mostly were hunted as a pack, not 1-2 dogs out like a lot of the guys that run cur dogs. I’ve gotten to where I enjoy hunting with less dogs these days, it’s much less stressful if I’m hunting near roads or by myself.

Reuben,
I wanted to breed back towards Cash since he was double bred with the original Sire, but unfortunately he got killed Friday night. I haven’t gotten too much info yet but it sounds like he had a heat stroke after being caught on a rank boar for too long before the guys could get to him. Im praying that Mine took and is pregnant, I guess we will know here soon.

I wanted to breed towards Cash because he retained the hunt, nose, and bottom of the BMC side, as well as all of the grit and the silence of the pit side. I’m going to be pretty limited as to my options now. If she did take and the pups turn out to be what I’m hoping for, then I will have to take a male back to Mine and/or do a full brother to full sister breeding. I do have the one living dog that Mine produced in an accidental litter and while she is a very nice dog to hunt with, she’s more of a RCD that will just stick with a lead dog. Her dad was my old bulldogs brother. That line of bulldogs has a tendency to act a little funny with people, as far as cowering down when you go to pet them, which is a huge pet peeve of mine so I don’t want to introduce that trait in to these black dogs.

The only other option I have is a half brother to Mine that is a full BMC, sharing the same sire and his dam was another Ladner BMC that was a little shorter range and a little more gritty than the sire. I stopped hunting him when he was young because he was trashing and opening up on deer, which was making it hard for me to catch educated pigs when I had nothing but young inexperienced dogs. I started taking only silent dogs so that if they trashed they didn’t run the hogs out of the area. In that particular area the hogs would run for the high heavens if they heard a dog because they were hunted 5-6 days a week for years and years. Every once in a while I will let him tag along on a hunt, and he does have a pretty good nose and has found a few hogs, but I would have to hunt him hard to judge wether or not he was worthy of breeding. Even though he is either 5 or 6 years older now, he is still only a started dog since I just never take him. The negatives are that he will open up some which I don’t care for, and both him and his other littermate brother will have diarrhea when I take them on hunts and are constantly stopping to poop every time you turn around. Since both of them do it I figured he may pass that on to pups, which is just a negative trait in my eyes.

If Mine ends up not being pregnant, I may reevaluate and try to hunt Scooter (the half brother BMC) more and see what kind of dog he makes. I guess it would be a crab shoot if the pups come out open, and how catchy they are. My original thoughts years ago were that doubling up on the traits for being open and baying would make the pups lean that way, but cash is proof that when doubled up on his dad, he retained the catch and the silence, so maybe that’s how Mine x Scooter would go as well. That would introduce Scooters mom, Molly, as another variable too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dang right I hunt two dogs most of the time 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Judge, it sure beats having to round up 5-6 dogs that are scattered throughout the swamp. I feel like it’s easier to watch the dog work as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ain’t nothing wrong with a pack of dogs I just like less for the reasons you stated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reuben, thank you for all of the tips. Mine is definitely pregnant, she’s pretty swole up now and should be dropping pups at the very end of this month. I’m hoping she throws a whole pile of them! The last litter that I raised (my red dogs I’ve been running lately) will be a year old on the 9/10. That was my first litter that I raised and I did a lot of research and studying before hand, and I worked with them a lot as young pups. I got a pretty decent handle on them, socialized them well, and had lots of trips to the creek by house to get them roaming the woods and learning when they were just little pups. They have good blood behind them as well but so far the two males I kept are the best young dogs I’ve had. They are really really impressing me. Even got some compliments on how well mannered they are around strange dogs and riding in the box. I plan to do a lot of the same things with this litter to try and set them off in the right direction from the time they are born


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well fellas, I had pups hit the ground some time yesterday (9/20/21). I got home around 2pm and she had already had all but one of them. I think they actually came a few days early. Two black females were already dead when I saw them and they looked a little small so I think they were stillborn. Ended
Up with 3 black males, 3 black females, and 1 yella female. One of the black females was born after I got my first count, and she looks to be the runt. I’m hoping that all of them will survive and be healthy! They have some big shoes to fill

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210921/d780db136c7a562c26340849e6a35716.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210921/f65affa54566f288f60ef0589896a896.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210921/df265b732281c9f0d024f2a916c16a2b.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They look good and healthy bud. I wish you the best with them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, They look good.

Unfortunately I lost a male pup. My wife called me and said it was out in the middle of the pen dead. She doesn’t seem to be doing real good with them now. They’re not feeding much and she has laid on them several times. I moved her in the house to watch them better and am getting some milk formula to try and supplement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

After talking with Justin, I’m sure that she has Mastitis in almost all of her teats. I’m trying to supplement some bottle feeding now but it’s not looking good. The runt is on the edge of dying, probably any time now. And one of the last two males left is looking rough


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Prognosis is she definitely has Mastitis in all tits. She’s now 100% separated and on amoxicillin, and I’m hand raising the puppies inside. Anybody got any tips? I’ve never had to hand raise pups. So far I’ve got bottles and the milk formula, feeding them every 2.5 hours and trying to keep them bundled up and warm. I had two that spit milk out of their nose which worries me about fluid in the lungs and pneumonia. Online it said they might be drinking too fast so I’m only letting them get a few sips at a time and then waiting a minute before giving them a few more. The runt did die on me this morning so I am down to 5 survivors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve honestly always let Mother Nature have her way. I figure she knows something I don’t and if it’s meant to be it will be. I hate it for you. I wish you the best. I will say this, if it was me I would probably try to raise them on goats milk. Seems like you can raise anything on goats milk without the complications that other milks or replacements can cause. It might show up
later when they go to b-a-a-a-a-y.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Austin…the dam will lick the pups bottoms to stimulate the pups to urinate and poop…so you will need to do this if she is not available to do this…you can simulate her licking with a warm wet cloth…good luck on raising them…

I’m glad you clarified that Reuben. I don’t think he wants them bad enough to do the licking himself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol thanks for the help guys. I got in the vet late this morning and they confirmed it was mastitis. I started her on amoxicillin last night and they said to keep on that and have them separate. Since then I also lost the weaker male. He died on me about an hour ago. The last 4 look fairly strong though still dehydrated. I’m bottle feeding them small amounts every 2-2.5 hours as well as using unscented baby wipes to make them pee and poop. I’ve now got a heating pad covered in a towel underneath them now to keep them warm. Really hoping these last 4 will pull through. Only one male, if he dies I have no options but to outcross which I did not want to do for another few generations. I’m praying all 4 will survive


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I haven't bottle raised myself but my friends that have got bottles with a tube out the top and slipped it down the throat and squeezed it in for the first week to 10 days. They don't have a gag reflex for awhile. Have to make sure you don't get in the lungs. It is much quicker this way. Good luck with them.

WayOutWest, I had a friend recommend that too but I’ve already had a scare with milk bubbling back out the nose so I’m just gonna take my time with a syringe and go slow. So far my 4 survivors are doing okay, still staying steady on feeding them 2.5ml of formula every 2-2.5 hours and keeping them warm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My wife has  helped several large litters by bottle feeding them a couple of times a day, weve never completely raised any on the bottle, but she has had real good luck helping them with goats milk and a regular old fashioned baby bottle with a small enough hole that if held upside down would just drip every few seconds so that they have to suck and swallow, and sort of put them in a natural nursing position which helps them not to strangle and ingest milk into their lungs. Wish you good fortunes with them.

Thank you old man (I believe it’s Clue, right?), so far the 4 survivors are doing okay. The male still seems a little dehydrated based on his skin, but I’ve been strict on getting them fed every 2-2.5 hours. I’m sleeping on the couch beside them and have stayed at home the last few days. I’m praying for this male to make it. If he does, I can take him back to his mom, his half sister that I have, or one of the females from this litter. That will at least give me more dogs to work with and hopefully get me out of this corner. If the male doesn’t make it then I have no choice but to outcross, which I did not want to do for several more generations since there are no males with this blood alive and I would have to go completely unrelated. All of that is if course on the basis that these pups perform as expected. The one surviving dog bred off of this female is a nice dog and they have an all star team in their background, so I’m hoping they all survive and make worthy dogs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Austesus, wether these pups work out or not, if I were you, I’d be looking that out cross that was going to help get me where I need to be any way. Your starting point with these dogs is obviously not the most favorable and has little to no room for error. You might actually accomplish and get where you’re wanting to be quicker and easier than waiting. You gotta remember that very limited number of brood stock is already working against you. Not only that but the uncertainty of how the offspring are going to turn out. And if that isn’t enough Father Time is against you. If you can find the right family of dogs to cross to, not an individual dog, it increases your odds of success in my opinion. Then no matter what you are fortunate enough to raise out of this litter you already have your next breeding lined up. Those pups would be half your line. Breeding the F1 back to your family increases it to 3/4 and so on.  The other thing is you should definitely get ash collected so that when he’s gone or no
longer able to reproduce, you have it available. I speak from experience when I tell you that you will be glad you did it. Mine isn’t ancient but she isn’t gonna be around forever and as you well know, freak accidents happen. Get what you can out of her. That in itself sounds like it may be a challenge judging by this litter. If so you are down one more resource and need to have cash available even worse. This is all my opinion of course but I’ve been exactly where you are. I’m there now with my bulldogs. I’ll never have the pure old family again but I can at least have that blood in the dogs I’m rebuilding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

T-Dog,

I wish Cash would’ve been collected. He died several weeks after this breeding. We had a bad heat spell here and he had a heat stroke on a hog before anyone could get to him. That is a good tip about breeding to an outcross from a family instead of a single dog, the hard thing is that I don’t know of anybody that breeds cur dogs anywhere near close to local. Nobody around here line breeds or inbreeds for whatever reason. I always have my eyes open but have yet to come across it. On the outcross, I was thinking that it would play out better to make the outcross after the blood is tightened up, so let’s say for example I use a female from this litter and take her to my long legged red dog if he keeps progressing and finishes out nice. That dog is obviously scatter bred, but he would hopefully bring in more leg and size which is the main thing I would want to add. These black dogs don’t need anything added to get it done, they have produced many hogs for anyone that has had a chance to own them, but I personally favor longer legged dogs. So if I made that cross, and then selected a pup that took after the black dogs except he also had some more leg, and then I bred him back in to the black dogs, I would essentially dilute the outcross blood while retaining the longer leg trait if I continued to keep the longer legged pups, correct?

If that’s the case, would I be better to do that, or take the outcross male to Mine and then select a pup off of that, to breed back in to her or to this litter? I guess what I’m getting at is which methods would be better from a genetic view? This litter has no outside blood introduced since Bo and Black Betty, so what I’m trying to piece together in my head is the best way to make more branches so that I’m not in a corner, while also trying to breed heavy towards that cross. I know that Mr. Bob Owens and several others had great luck breeding heavy towards the Big Boy and Blondie cross, so that is what got my mind thinking about trying to lean heavy towards a cross that has clicked and clearly produced nice dogs. The Bo x Black Betty cross was apparently a good one because a lot of outstanding dogs have come from it, and I’m hoping the Cash x Mine cross will double down on that and have the same results. The one dog I have off of Mine’s first litter is a really nice dog. More of a RCD because Mine was accidentally bred to my catch dogs brother so the offspring Punk is 3/4 bulldog, but she is a little hammer and has lots of drive and stays busy in the woods. I’m hoping that is a sign that these pups will come out good too. I’m hoping that Mine turns out to be a solid producer. Even if I have to hand raise another litter, I’ll be prepared for it and will deal with it to further the dogs until I have another female to breed on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can help your milk problem in the future by giving the female a couple of cc's of a good penicillin sub-Q every 3rd or fourth day beginning a couple of weeks prior to whelping. A real long time ago I had the same trouble with a female two times in a row, didn't try to bottle feed them and lost them all, then and an old dog man told me how to remedy it and next litter she had a basket full and raised them all, all the Curdogs I have today go to that female multiple times. I don't know if it really worked or was coincidence but it lined up and was successful anyway. At worst it is harmless to try next breeding.

Oh, and yes I am Clue.

Austesus, in my opinion you are already in a corner. One your family isn’t tight bred yet. They are consistent in type and performance style which is a plus. So if you breed to your scatter bred male, you are only slightly tighter bred on one side.  He may be a leggy dog, but is he the norm of what he comes from or the exception. If he’s the exception you don’t what you’re going to get and even if his type is the norm, is his style? Was one parent catchy and the other just the opposite? In my experience, puppies have a real strong tendency to revert back to grandparents. If your pups grandparents are all unrelated then the only way you can hope to know which style and type they are going to be is to have bred like dogs to like dogs. By that I mean at least 2 or 3 of the 4 grandparents were very similar. When genes are scattered you may have 4 pups in a litter and could possibly end up with 4 different types and styles. Likely you won’t know which ones are which until they are bigger which means you have to gamble on which ones to keep or keep them on your feed bill longer. Another option is breeding your females to outside stud via AI. You can get chilled semen from a couple different studs off someone that has a family of dogs you like and you could be on your way again. Just a thought. This is only my way of thinking. There are guys on here have forgotten more about breeding than I know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can think of 2 or 3 families in this board that and one or two that aren’t that would probably serve you well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The old man,

 I will try that if she gets bred again and see if it helps her. Thank you for the advice, I have read good things about you and your dogs. I have enjoyed reading the posts by yourself, Bigo, and Skoalbandit. Those cur dogs sound like some absolute go getters.

T-Dog,

I had not thought about getting AI stud from someone, that would actually benefit me a lot if I could find good family of dogs that would compliment this one. I think it’s a cultural difference with there not being any line breeding or inbreeding here, I suspect that it’s because SC wasn’t a state with a lot of cattle hunting in the early days and not many people would have used a dog for a living back in the early days. There are plenty of guys with jam up dogs around me, but they’re mostly scatter bred from random dogs. I was thinking about the AI today and have decided that if the sole male of this litter lives I’m going to get him collected and stored before I start him in the woods, that way I don’t run the risk of losing the last male if he gets killed young. So far all four of them are doing great. My wife has made fun of me because I have a whole puppy nursing station setup in the den lol. I’ve got a scale to weigh them every day to make sure I’m giving them the proper amount of formula. They’re steadily getting bigger and stronger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Way to keep them going. I had a friend hauling a litter to work in a cooler to feed them while at work.

I admire your dedication for sure. Collecting him would be wise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is not a lot doing it anywhere. I'm sure they are around. It takes tons of Hard work, commitment, money, and a lifetime to do it right.

IMO. The guys you are looking for are not going to talk to you, or help you much when all you want is to cross unproven dogs into dogs they have dedicated their life to create. They know it takes a LONG LONG time to breed out the bad, or breed in the good traits you want.

Not trying to discourage you in anyway. Just may rethink how to get to your goal.

You seem to be working hard at it.

Good luck.....You have the obsession!

I sure hope they turn out for what you looking for after going through what you been though with em I know like Cajunl said it probably be hard to find a family like what you looking for to bred to because chances are they ain't going to bred to nothing that they know nothing about they might would if you hunted with em got to know em and they got to see your dogs work and they thought they might improve on something they got but chances are slim on that are you looking or breeding for pretty much running catch dogs?

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

I know some boys around here they had a bunch of really rough to just straight catch dogs and they kept a sure enough pile of dogs between the 2 of em and they never did really get a family of dogs bred like that because here they get about everything they had killed every year at that time and still now not as much now as then but lot people cut and mark hogs they get on big hog and take them little while to get there they would be wiped out so they couldn't never keep enough to raise a family of em but they took cur dogs are hounds that would hunt and was really rough already and crossed bulldogs on em and they kept a pile of really rough to straight catch dogs and they caught lot hogs with em but kept lot of messed up dogs and never really had a family of dogs but always had what they was looking for in a dog

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Lol the cooler is actually a pretty neat idea. Luckily I’m slow at work right now so I’m going in first thing in the morning to do a little bit of paperwork and then at the house to watch the pups. They’re a lot of work that’s for sure.

And you have a good point Cajun, that was initially why I haven’t tried to track down anyone that has their own line of similar dogs. I know a lot of guys can be reserved about their blood and don’t want other people to get it. The men like yourself that have successfully bred families and lines for years have earned a lot of respect in my book, and I’m glad to have the forum to be able to get insight and advice from y’all. My passion truly is in the dogs. I really don’t care about killing hogs anymore, I always let someone else kill them. I just like to observe and analyze the dogs and I like to video the bay or the catch so that I can go back and assess what each dog is doing the entire time. I have also got in to the habit of keeping a journal and writing the details of every hunt I go on so that I can track progress and see patterns. I know how detrimental kennel blindness can be, so I figure that if I have a written log I can refer back to, it’s a lot harder for me to convince myself that a dog is doing better than it actually is.

And yes these dogs catch but work like true strike dogs. They still have a fairly cold nose because of Bo. They will typically take the hottest track they come across though, and they like to wind and run head up. They’re dead silent and it is extremely rare for one not to catch. On a true rank boar that’s got a lot of size to him you may see one backup, but I’ve watched the mom to these pups catch a 375ish lb boar and he flipped her up over the top of some corn stalks, she hit the ground and immediately tried him and got thrown again. Ended up shooting the hog as soon as he threw her the second time. They will typically hunt between 300-500yds out in circles, checking in periodically. If one doesn’t come back for a while they have probably slipped off on a track or winding. My experience has been that we normally catch hogs much closer with these dogs because they will slip off and catch the hog laid up in his bed and there’s no chase involved usually. I personally think that some guys get steered away from rough dogs because they tried dogs that counterfeit rough. Meaning they want to bite and grab on a hog but if the hog puts up a fight they’ll let go, or they’re agitating him darting in and out grabbing hair instead of just letting him bay. I would be completely fine if one of these bayed a hog if it was standing still, but the second they try to catch I expect them to stay hooked like a true catch dog. My mindset is that if they’re going to grab the hog, commit to it. They are typically all ear dogs but the mom to these pups will catch on the snout sometimes. The downside is obviously how hard it is to keep them alive. I prefer to run them with other truly rough dogs so they aren’t caught by themselves while other dogs are just biting and letting go. Not everyone’s cup of tea but there’s something about a rank dog that I love. Maybe it’s the warrior spirit. When they pop treed on the garmin it is a race to get to them as fast as possible, which has led to some of them dying when they ran a hog a few miles and caught it by themselves and either overheated from being caught too long or got killed. I personally never had my two get hurt bad. They have had minor cuts but nothing serious. My old male Dum Dum would catch the ear and turn so he was facing the same direction as the hog with their sides touching. I couldn’t figure out how he always escaped getting cut even when on some good teeth where other dogs got worked over pretty good, and then I had the chance to watch him hold a 225lb boar solo one day. Every time the hog turned to try and cut him he would just spin with him and never got touched. They are rough as Cobb but they are intelligent as well and tend to catch with a good style. I think the most similar type of dog would probably be some of the Florida curs that I have heard of. The mom to this litter has never barked nor bayed that I’m aware of. Dum Dum let out a few chops once at a sounder (before catching that 225lb boar) and I think it was because he had never seen a sounder before and was surprised. The second time was shortly before his death. He stopped a little 150lb boar that was rank with some sharp teeth, the boar gave him a little tiny cut on his shoulder and he backed up and let out a single bark. I honestly thought he had been wrecked when I heard the bark. Other dogs got to the hog and he was caught solid when I got there. They were in some real thick briars and I believe that he backed up and waited until he saw another dog to catch. I would actually like to see more of that in these dogs, so that hopefully they stay alive longer. With this litter leaning more towards Bo, I am hoping there will be a touch of bay in them. Bo wouldn’t hardly put teeth on a hog, but so far everything that has come from his cross with Black Betty has retained the catching trait. Her genes must’ve been very potent because 9/10 pups from every litter and even subsequent litters that some people had breeding the original pups to other dogs, they all come out almost like clones. They are very consistent, which is almost odd to me since both parents were different and no relation whatsoever


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NLA, it’s not often that I hit big teeth in these swamps. We do sometimes but catch a lot more shoats and sows. I talked with a few buddies and believe I will be able to work with them for all of us to keep and breed these dogs so that hopefully we can keep enough alive to keep moving forward. Mine will never go to the woods again, she’s proven and more valuable to me for pups now. And I will make sure to get some males collected


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea I don't care much for rough dogs and like you said I sure ain't going to deal with no bay buster that runs in a nips and bites at a bayed hog till he runs that's quick way to death at my place ain't going deal with that for sure

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Austin there's just as many ways and methods to go about setting a family of dogs up as there ways to blow money, I, sure your starting to see that the two go hand in hand lol, seriously thought it's great to have a plan and even greater to see your enthusiasm in taking on this task, I'll be the elephant in the tea parlor, don't take this the wrong way but is something  to chew on, I know you've got the gumption in you to do it based off your prior experiences, it's an indescribable feeling creating a life, but also comes with a heavy responsibility, are you willing to take it if for whatever reason may arise, it's a tough pill to have to swallow to have to end a life you created, nurtured, bonded with, and became friends with, but something that is inevitable, now about your next planned breedings, in reality exactly how many well thought out plans ever actually goes as planned, now factor in how the laws of inheritance and it makes for some head scratching later on, it's great to have a plan to do this or do that, make this cross then breed back to this dog and back to this aunt or uncle, it's good to have your mind on the future but if it were that simple we'd already had the superior dog, the best breeding method is to cross two dogs that you like for whatever reason and think they would pair good, that's step one, until you have raised the pups and have them in the woods and see how each one performs to your liking, some pups are going to lean toward one side of their ancestry more so than the other, now once you've determined which pups will make it to the next step evaluate what made them successful in producing game, and base your next mating off two dogs that are very similar in style and performance, remember the ones who are productive, when your first starting to build your line from your situation only choose those who can get it done to carry on the family, all sentimental and emotional feelings about particular individuals has to go out the window and you have to be brutally honest with yourself, any weak links from the start will eventually cause your chain to brake when the pressures start getting applied, I'm sure you've heard the proverb of building your house on the Rock and not the sand, that should be everyone's standard when their setting out and attempting to go down the road you are now traveling, another key piece of info is when looking at potential broodstock DO NOT breed to those freak of nature superstars without evaluation of its littermates, if 3 out of a litter of 10 are real good dogs but the rest of the litter was mediocre at best, that's not a good turnout percent, only time I'd say make an exception is maybe in a situation like yours where your just starting to set the family line and are also using a concentrated gene pool per say, although your dog aren't line bred for generations if you close the doors to outside stock and breed from a certain group even if unrelated with each passing generation you start narrowing the down the gene pool,  if your were to breed those 3 to other dogs of their caliber and from some kin of some sort and your averages aren't increasing then your headed in the wrong direction, your goal shouldn't be to breed for those lone superstars if your intent is to set a family line, you want to eventually start seeing uniform and consistent litters in positive ways, another thing to consider is breeding two dogs that are similar in all their good aspects but if each have similar faults then your just enhancing the likelihood of enhancing the negative traits just as well as th good, or if you see that a dog is nice in almost every way but maybe have a small shortcoming in one department, might be a little difficult in your case with trying to stay within a certain gene pool, but I'd say seek out a mate that is actually overly abundant in that dept. so your probability of enhancing the shortcoming is greater, if you got a glass of room temperature water, depending on if you want to raise or lower to temperature determines if you put hot or cold water into the glass is of lukewarm, it be kinda difficult to make any adjustments if you only use water that was a few degrees different up or down, don't believe the bull crap about not breeding a dog for years until it's proven itself, if it takes that long then your on a long walkabout going in circles, if your doing things right by two years old is plenty long enough, don't be scared to breed those young dogs who are doing it day in and day out, that should be everyone's goal, and always keep in mind, NATURAL ABILITY BEGETS NATURAL ABILITY, no amount of "training" is going to overcome what is natural instinct....

Excellent post Goose, some real solid opinions and advice.

Thank you for the tips goose, at this point it’s all reliant on these 4 pups making the cut. I had a scare yesterday morning, my only male went (I think) hypoglycemic. I screwed up and missed a feeding the night before last and so they went 7 hours without nursing. It was enough to send my male over the edge. He became almost lifeless, wouldn’t nurse at all, started getting cold, etc.. I was trying to research as fast as I could and ended up getting some Karo syrup to try and boost his sugar levels back up, that didn’t make much of a difference. I gave him a sugar water mix recipe, didn’t help either. Then he ended up throwing up the milk I was able to get dribbled down his mouth. I finally found some stuff online about giving him subcutaneous fluids. I ended up giving him a lot of 5% dex solution, 2-3ml’s every 30 minutes for a few hours. And he got a hair of strength back and was able to drink a couple ml’s of milk. I kept that up and kept giving him 1-2ml’s of milk every 30 minutes with the injections. As of 1am he is moving around again. At this point I haven’t given him fluids since 1:30am and he’s almost recovered. Man talk about some stress, I hope to never hand raise pups again lol.

And goose, my wife was joking that I’d go easy on them after hand raising them. I said if anything they’re gonna get a harsher look for being such a pain in my butt, they’ll either fill shoes or fill holes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Austin…if a pup goes cold on you it is hard to bring them back…
Warming them up too quickly will probably be one of the  contributing causes of death…
Doing what you did obviously saved his life…bringing a cold pups body temperature up gradually is critical in saving its life…a good way is to find a comfortable place to sit and grab a blanket…put the pup under your shirt and blanket until his body temperature matches yours…

At 2 weeks are before I would worm them with pyrantel pamoate…

Reuben, I have had a heating pad for them 24/7, where they can crawl around to eat on and off of it. From everything I found online it was pointing to his blood sugar dropping dangerously low due to going too long without nursing. Basically putting him on the edge of going in to a coma. I can’t wait to get these suckers weaned and outside lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Having a heat pad is really important on account a pup can’t generate its own heat until around two weeks or so…I thought you meant the pups core temperature had gone cold…when that happens the body temperature needs to be brought up gradually or chances are the pup won’t make it…

Low blood sugar can definitely be life threatening especially with pups less than two weeks of age…

Well the male took a bad turn today. He fell off fast, and has had bloody diarrhea. He had been steadily progressing and I wormed them yesterday afternoon. At midnight he started having diarrhea which continued in to today. At first it was only during his regular bowel movements after eating. Now it’s random. As of 4pm he started falling off like he was previously, I’ve pumped a ton of fluids in him and the diarrhea got worse until it was basically just pink water. Now he won’t nurse and I don’t have the stuff to tube feed. I tried to trickle some milk in his mouth and the last feeding but it wasn’t much use. He’s separated from the others now, I didn’t want him getting bloody poop on them and potentially getting them sick too. I honestly think he was too weak when I gave them the wormer and it might have hit him too hard. Really sucks but I don’t think he will make it through the night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry to hear it, it is hard to get them bottle feeders up to solid food.

My wife took over his care for the night, so far I’ve done 100% of taking care of them myself and just don’t have the time for the regular care on top of caring for him. He has made it through the night. He threw up a piece of newspaper where I had it ripped up in pieces for bedding for them. I’m hoping maybe that was the cause of all of it because the other puppies have not shown signs of getting sick as of yet. He did finally start getting some actual yellow poop in his diarrhea instead of straight blood, but a few minutes ago he pooped out some gooey liquid poop that had big spots of bright red blood in it. I’m hoping he doesn’t have any bad internal bleeding or damage. Just trying to keep him pumped full of fluids, warm, and getting him to nurse a few ml’s of milk every 2 hours to try and hopefully just keep him alive to overcome whatever the cause is. I even thought about taking him to a vet last night but I know the bill will be $1,500 plus and with him being so young he probably wouldn’t make it anyways if he’s that bad. Our regular vets around here stopped doing emergency work once Covid started and all vets including the emergency vets stay busy 24/7 now with the emergency vets having a 4-6 hour wait time just to be seen. Gonna just try to sustain him long enough to beat he issue and hope that it’s something he can overcome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Years ago I had a pup like that and my wife took the pup to the vet and he gave her a tube of paste that was dense with nutrients and it helped in saving the pup…with my finger I just dabbed a little bit in the pups mouth per instructions…

Reuben, do you know what the paste was? His last time pooping he still had diarrhea but no visible blood. That did happen previously and then the blood returned, I’m hoping that if the bleeding will stop he will be okay. He is getting down a few ml’s of milk every 2 hours. Not nearly what he’s supposed to be eating but I’m hoping it’s at least enough to sustain life. The food and blood are my main concerns. I have plenty of 5% dex solution to keep him hydrated as long as he will continue to nurse and not bleed out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You might call your vet and see if they will just sell it to you.

 Its called Nutri-Cal comes in gel now as well as paste, alot of companies make a brand, no vet needed.
 just google "Nutri-Cal paste" and a dozen types will pop up

I don’t remember the name but like WOW said…call the vet and see what he recommends…

 Since you need it ASAP Vet may be best route, but you dont need vet to purchase.

 Walmart online even stocks a brand "Tomlyn Nutri-Stat"

I  found it in 3 stores locally. Petco and Petsense near me.

Hey guys, I appreciate the tips. I looked online and tractor supply didn’t have it, I made an emergency run to the grocery store last night and got some canned pumpkin since that is supposed to help their digestion and have a lot of nutrients. As of today he has made a good turn around, I’m hoping he keeps up the progress this time. No more blood in the poop as of last night and he is having loose stools but no actual diarrhea. Got him eating good and still giving him some periodic subcutaneous fluids to make sure he doesn’t get dehydrated again. I started giving the other 3 pups a few CC’s of fluid each day as well to hopefully keep them hydrated and not have any other scared. I will order some of the nutri-cal to keep on hand as well for any future situations, I saw they sell it on the dog website chewwy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Had more females go down hill last night. Vet diagnosed coccidia so at least there’s some answers and hopefully they’ll be okay with the meds. One of my black females is pretty rough as of last night. This is a new vet that’s a few miles from the house and just a little country vet compared to my older vet that has become more of a commercial setup. This vet wants to make some hunts so hopefully I’ll get a good connection out of all the headaches! Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like a good vet. Many of them now don’t care for our particular discipline. I have also seen many vets miss the coccidia diagnosis. Many of them will call it parvo and then the dog is lost because it didn’t receive the right medication. So, if nothing else it sounds like you found one with a brain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This guy is the secondary vet I believe, just him and the main vet that owns the clinic. I saw him when I went the first time to get the mom looked at and confirmed with the mastitis. Apparently he used to be in Georgia and he worked on a hog hunters Catahoula dogs almost every Saturday and has a liking for hog dogs. Can’t beat that, the emergency vet around here tried to accuse me of abusing my Hopper dog when I took him there after he got in front of the truck and got ran over. Like sure, I’m gonna dislocate my dogs hips on purpose just to bring him here at midnight and pay 10x what a regular vet costs to fix him. I mean come on, who does that lol.

But my male pup had the highest count at 60 for the coccidia, they were actually surprised after seeing his current condition. I guess all the fluid and the canned pumpkin was enough to at least sustain him since he first went downhill. I’m hoping that if I can just kept them warm, fed, and hydrated, the meds will do the rest. I’ve never had anything except for one flea outbreak on my yard so I was surprised, come to find out the fella that had the male dog had a coccidia incident earlier this year, so I’m presuming it was picked up by the mom there. Once these pups are on the up and up I will be trying to decontaminate and sterilize everything in and out of the house. Even though they’re just 18 days old, the vet had me start weaning them today to get some better nutrients in them. Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that this is the last of the issues and that it will get easier from here on out…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just want to send a God bless you your way brother, I've been right where your at before and it's completely nerve racking in all aspects,don't get discouraged and give in when all seems lost, one day your going to look across your yard and your mind will bring you back to these times and a sense of pride and accomplishment will come with that quick glance at what you've created, and the work that YOU put in doing it,at least your on top of things, crush up some fresh garlic cloves and oregano and soak them in a jar of water, mix some of that water solution in your milk at every feeding, look up ropa poultry supply, they sale a product that is a chicken supplement, it's mainly oregano oil concentrate, where this is used coccidiosis doesn't exits any longer and a good portion of the poultry industry is going away from conventional medicine altogether to this and other oregano oil based products , this stuff is the truth, however the garlic and oregano is easily and readily available at your local grocery store, I'd start that ASAP, it'd boost the effectiveness of the meds and is an immune system booster, and garlic has a sulfa based compound in it, by the way if you've found a reasonable dog friendly vet, if he eats pork, a few packs of sausage or some fresh, clean cut and ready to cook back strap or smoker ready hog, goes ALONG ways, in addition to a hunt invite, research the benefits and uses of the oregano oil, it's some amazing and very useful information that can be bridged and used in the dog world....

Good words of encouragement to someone trying to do the right thing Goose!

Thanks for the kind words Goose! I sure hope they end up healthy and prove to be good dogs. I guess time will tell now!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Me and some old bulldog buddys just went back threw twenty something years of breeding dogs just to look and what was what and who was what and what made what. All those years of worrying about do I need to tighten this,  do I need to tighten that .  Man we where writing pedigrees for years and years.  You know what my advise to you is ?  To quit worrying about what you need to tighten up and breed your best dogs to your best dogs.  In the end the pedigrees will work themselves out and you will have bred your best dogs to your best dogs .  I would be willing to bet when your all said and done.  You will have bred way better dogs doing it this way than you ever will trying to put this dog in there two times three time are this and that .

After all of our worry threw all of them years when we look back.   It was always the loose to real loose line breedings with small great out crosses bred in there that made our greatest dogs .  Believe me they were great great dogs.  A man can get himself locked into a large amount of Bullnumber 2 trying to breed tightly bred dogs .  Let your dogs decide what the pedigree should be not you and you will have great dogs for years and  years .  Its the human element that weakens the dogs.

TexasHogDogs,

Thank you for the advice, it’s a great opportunity for us younger guys to be able to pick the brains of those of you that have been there and done that. Unfortunately one of my two black females is disabled, vet thinks a brain lesion, definitely a neurological problem. That leaves one male and two females that are still alive and well and have big shoes to fill. They will have plenty of opportunity to make the cut, so time will tell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well my two black survivors are doing well, the yella female is also doing well with my buddy that had the sire to the litter. Figured I’d post these pictures that I took of my two yesterday. We were having a lesson on riding around the yard in the back of the Ranger. We have taken a few walks down the creek and they are doing everything I like to see in pups, they’re swimming very well too. Hopefully by this time next year they will be looking good on some hogs in the big woods and will be worth feeding.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220225/7b033b19308c9d711fddb0dcf4f8c7c0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220225/dd9f9668b07aed6562fbe19e7d4b0cb9.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220225/52e9107a822ea498f6a2f1e59c37d78f.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220225/426ebc770e7aa1e34a21a6c1f8d15e2b.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nice looking pups, hope they work for you!

Thank you WOW, time will tell… they’ll have plenty of opportunity so it will be on them to do the rest


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Man they’re growing fast. I sure hope they work out for ya. You’ve sure done your part to get them this far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You've got some fantastic dogs Austesus. Dum Dum looked like one tough catch dog.

Thank you Nate, I like the username!! He was a sure enough good one, and when I owned him I wasn’t nearly as good at handling dogs as I am now. I regret that I waited too long trying to find the perfect female to breed him too, and then never got the chance before he was killed. I really think that if I had that dog now, he would be an even better dog. I’m sure hoping that these pups fill the shoes of their family.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk