Catch dog help needed.

[cantexduck]

 I got my first catch dog yesterday. He is a 10mth. pit cross. He has seen smaller pigs in a pen but thats it. What steps do I need to take next? Also should I trash break him like I do for the bay dogs? I have 50-75 head of cattle that come up to the house. Last night he was hell bent on tring to get loose to go after them. 
 I also will not have a pit at the house that is dog aggressive. I may be thinking wrong but I also have a lacy x plott that is top dog in the yard. She as yet to back down from any dog I own. I figured she would try and put the new dog in its place. SO would letting her out to test him be wrong?
-Mike-

[slimpickins]

If your lucks like mine, he'll kill or breed her, either way bad.
I'd just let him settle in good and get to know the surroundings and his new "home" for a week or so.
Until I was 100% positive, I would not "let her out" if you mean loose. You need to be able to control the situation, should things go badly.
The best way for me is to keep one on a good chain staked out and lead the other in circles, gradually gettin closer and closer.
When they get just close enough to smell each other, momentarily pause and let them sniff, then lead one away.
This can be done several times if a fight does not start. Be ready to pull on the lead to seperate them just in case.
Then I'd slowly begin to introduce him to newer stuff, like the trash breaking.
Even if you have no intentions of turning him out around cattle, it is good practice to have him trash broke, if possible.
If he ever got loose and the cows came close, that's a wreck waiting to happen.

Just mu $.02.

[elliscountyhog]

pitbulls are VERY hard headed. I wouldnt test him with anything because trust me he will. The best thing to work with him is to lead or ride or both.

[cantexduck]

Thanks for the input. That brings up another problem. I let all my dogs out to run every day. I will have to put him in a dog box or something while the rest are out. For right now he is on a chain. I am not sure if he will stay on a chain or a kennel for good. I am going to worm him and give him a vac. shot today. He seemed good with my lacy pup that was in the box next to him on the 2 hr. ride home. I wouldnt say the female plott x lacy I have is dog aggressive, she is just very alpha. Also when the neighbors dogs come over she gets blood in her eyes. But around the others dogs I own she is fine.  And as far as being able to control the situation, I have yet to find a dog that can fight with a hole in its head.



 Testing, I know that they can be hard headed but how could teaching him that cows mean pain be a bad thing? I am not dis agreeing just tring to learn. Also I would rather know that he dosent do well with other dogs before I ever get him in the woods. I know that when in the woods that any good hunting dog should have one thing on his mind- but we all also know that crao happens. I just want the "crap" to happen at the house vs. the woods. And on the cow part- I dont want to chance him takeing down a calf either at te house or on someones ranch.

[Circle C]

With our year old bull dog we tied him to the fence near our horses and the neighbors cattle. He was wearing a shock collar.  When the horses came near him, and he looked at them. We bumped him. Just a few times, and now when the horses come near, he looks the other way.   

Don't know if our way is the "right" way, but it is how we do things.

[Bryant]

I agree Circle C, and I have used a technique very similar to what you have done.

Trash breaking in a controlled environment is pretty simple with a shock collar and proper knowledge of how to use it.  I would definately recommend breaking any catch dog of cattle.  There are multiple scenarios I can think of where things could go wrong if not.  (ex.  meeting a calf when turned loose to a bay, missing a catch...hog breaking and catch dog running free for a period of time, or perhaps a young dog baying cattle when you think there is a hog on the line and sending the catch dog in)

This is what I have done in the past.  Put a shock collar on him set pretty high.  Get a long rope and tie one end to the collar.  Get close to the cows, but not close enough that he will get to them without hitting the end of the rope.  Turn him loose and when he takes off towards them, roll him at the same time yelling for him to "get out".  It shouldn't take but one or two times to get your point well understood.  In a real hunt situation, you usually won't be within distance of telling the dog to "get out" should this happen, but anytime I scold my dogs I say the phrase "get out".  Whether it be fighting, jumping, trashing or whatever my dogs recognize the term as "quit doing whatever their doing".  The mistake people make sometimes is trying to shock a dog while the fight/event is taking place.  The dog will associate the pain of the shock with the other animal and things could get worse, and usually will not stop the event.  Same thing with dogs that are fighting.

As far as being dog agressive, thats a little more tricky and I have noticed that all dogs are different.  Some will get straight with a little scolding, and some never seem to learn.  The tricky thing is that most dogs won't tie up at first glance of each other.  They run around sniffing, and then one ticks the other off I guess.  Once they go at it, the shock collar is useless.  I just break them apart, give each a STRONG scolding and hope they learn.  Sometimes I have also noticed a good fight between dogs will establish their pecking order and you won't have any problems after that.

You mentioned that the pit was a male and your other dog is a female.  I've never had trouble with male/female dogs fighting and in fact can't think of a single time it's happened.  Is your female agressive towards male dogs as well?  Thats interesting!

[cantexduck]

 I use the "get out" with all my dogs.Even my lab knows that it means to stop . 2 out of the three bay dogs wont even attempt to look at a cow. The other one which is older now just runs in the middle of the cows on her way to the pond. Also , I would never use the shock collar to correct fighting other dogs. Should I also trash him off of deer?? The help dog I have was bad about deer until she met some goats. After a few pops from the collar she now knows not to mess with deer. I heard mixed results using goats but it worked really well for me thus far. The last time we hunted we saw alot of deer and she didnt think about going after them. Thanks for the advice!!

[Bryant]

In my opinion, deer are the hardest animal to break dogs from chasing because you can't really set them up like you can cattle or goats.  You have to catch them at just the right time and while wearing a collar.  Most of my dogs hunt a pretty good distance out, and so for me a whole lot of luck is usually involved with me catching them acting up.

On a young catchdog, I would spend as much time as possible and try to focus a lot of attention walking the dog on a lead.  Nothings more frustrating than a dog that tries to drag you around in the woods.  Mr. Mason and Tim did a great job on Zeus prior to me acquiring him of teaching him to lead.  He actually reigns like a horse and turns by laying the lead on one side or the other of his shoulder.

I've said many times that I would like to someday teach Zeus to mush on command.  Sure would help getting my big self up creek banks and such! 

[boarhog]

i myself have not done it but my uncle would tie his coondogs and rabbit dogs (beagels) next to goats to break them from runin deer he said a goat and deer have the same scent. i hunted with these dogs and they never ran deer, and that was with deer runnin everywhere.

[BRUTE]

What I like to do it not really mess with the dog for a couple weeks. Just feed him, pet on him a little when he eats, and whistle like I do when I want to call dogs back. Give the dog a chance to get use to you. Maybe lead him around a little.

Then I would definatley take him around cattle and other animals. Get an old roping rope or some thing and let him get out in front of you. IF he perks up yell "get out" and if he still tries reel his butt in and ware it out with that rope.

ALso with your other dogs. Let him run with them under supervision. Watch for and dogs to bow up or any thing else and whoop them if they do.

I am not a fan of avoiding stuff, confront it and try to handle it. You may not be able to fix every thing but atleast you will know what the dog can and can't do BEFORE you go in the woods.

[Bryant]

One other thing I thought worth mentioning...

You can use your pen to really get him catching, but the other side of that is him knowing what the barking dogs off in the woods mean.  When your sure he'll catch (and hold...very important!), and your confident enough to hit the woods with him for the first few bays you may have to take more time and be quiet slipping into seeing distance for him to see whats going down.  Some dogs almost figure out a bay in the distance instinctively and will go, others need to be shown a few times.

This is all assuming he's showing you something you like in the pen, and your going to give him a shot solo.  With an inexperienced catchdog, I would also always have a backup plan.

I haven't been hunting with catchdogs but for about a year and a half.  Prior to that for many years I bayed and shot.  I haven't personally messed with any young ones, but this is what I have seen first hand others do and it seemed to work well.