Should a dog have a good handle before being put in the woods?

[BIG BEN]

 This is a subject I was going to bring up, Today I let my 2 females that are 6 months old out of there pen and they ran around the yard. I called and called them with no response, even put food in their bowls and they would not come to me or get in their pen. I have only had the dogs a little while and they have absolutley no handle but have the drive of 10 dogs. They took off threw the woods and did not come back for 2 hours I was pissed and upset at the same time. Looks like a long lead or shock collar before I let them out again. Your question about having a handle on a dog, IMO absolutley manditory to have a handle on your dogs. When they did not listen to my commands I felt like getting rid of them on the spot.

[uglydog]

BuckHunter, a shock collar on a dog that does not know what it is supposed to do will only reuin it, Shock collars are not ESP devices or a substitute for training. A shock collar isa  tool for negative reinforcement, after a dog knows what is expected and makes the wrong choice.
Have you ever let them out to run before? if you have only had them a short time, then how are they supposed to know what "come here" means, or "get in your kennel" ?

[BIG BEN]

 uglydog, I let all my dogs loose at least an hour a day. I try to give as much individual time to each dog and go through alot of hot dogs and canned chicken to bribe them into obeying commands. They listen better by themselves but when the 2 females are together they run rampid and dont listen to anything. They are sisters and I need to seperate them kennel wise, one is more of the trouble maker and the other is a follower. As for the shock collar I am very experienced in training bird dogs with them and they have to be used in the right manner, I know all to well about ruining a dog with it.

[crackerc]

I see bryant and I disagree about the handle issue, which is good, everyone has their own way of doing things.

But I disagree where he said you can teach a smart dog anything EXCEPT hunt. I have seen many mutts, Dobermans, Shepards, etc, hunt and find game. Dogs that had high intelligence, but were hunting and were not bred for that, they were TRAINED to do it. Sure, they may not have been the best dogs in the woods, but they weren't the worst either.

I saw a white fuzzy dog that didn't weigh 30 lbs that would hunt, find and bay the hair off a hog. It was picked up off the street and no one knew what was in it. But the dog was SMART. learned all kind of tricks in addition to picking up hunting.

I will take a smart dog over a "run through the woods idiot" anyday!

I also believe some dogs are born trash free. Not many, but some. Again, I attribute this to intelligence. My old Dixie dog has never barked at anything other than a hog in her life. I have seen her jump over dillers, opossums, rabbits, go around cows, deer, coyotes, seen her come back when other dogs are running trash and I have never said a word to her about trash...she just never did it in her 8-9 years of hunting. Yet we averaged 100-150 hogs per year with her, every year I hunted her. Unfortunately, not all my dogs are not born trash free............

[kevin]

I see bryant and I disagree about the handle issue, which is good, everyone has their own way of doing things.

But I disagree where he said you can teach a smart dog anything EXCEPT hunt. I have seen many mutts, Dobermans, Shepards, etc, hunt and find game. Dogs that had high intelligence, but were hunting and were not bred for that, they were TRAINED to do it. Sure, they may not have been the best dogs in the woods, but they weren't the worst either.

I saw a white fuzzy dog that didn't weigh 30 lbs that would hunt, find and bay the hair off a hog. It was picked up off the street and no one knew what was in it. But the dog was SMART. learned all kind of tricks in addition to picking up hunting.

I will take a smart dog over a "run through the woods idiot" anyday!

I also believe some dogs are born trash free. Not many, but some. Again, I attribute this to intelligence. My old Dixie dog has never barked at anything other than a hog in her life. I have seen her jump over dillers, opossums, rabbits, go around cows, deer, coyotes, seen her come back when other dogs are running trash and I have never said a word to her about trash...she just never did it in her 8-9 years of hunting. Yet we averaged 100-150 hogs per year with her, every year I hunted her. Unfortunately, not all my dogs are not born trash free............

I don't think you understood Bryant.  Those smart dogs weren't taught to get out and hunt, instinct tells them too.  He's not saying that a smart dog won't hunt, just that you can't efficiently teach them to have the desire to range out looking for something.  If you could all anyone would breed for is brains.


   I like a dog with handle, but it isn't the end all for me on a dog in training.

[Ned Makim]

Everyone has their own style. I like efficiency on the hunt. That means dogs finding and grabbing their own pigs. It means dogs running on to get the next pig after you've grabbed the one they are holding. It means dogs opting for the biggest pig available. 'Handle' as you blokes call it, is the essential minimum out here if you want big pigs in numbers. It is also essential if you don't want your dogs shot for harassing stock. Having a proper handle on a dog allows you bring out the genetic potential of a dog in the shortest possible time.
All depends on how much it matters to you to get the big ones.
Cheers.