Hog dogers respect the law

[Txmason]

This was in the Tyler paper.

http://www.tylerpaper.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090109/NEWS01/901090297

Be safe and careful in the woods and watch the pictures you post up for the world.

Support thr Texas Dog Hunters Assocation Inc.
www.tdha.org

[Black Gold]

This reinforces what I preach all the time now:

IF YOU ARE WORKING HOGS IN A PEN AND AN ANIMAL IS BIT THEN YOU HAVE JUST COMMITTED A FELONY IN TEXAS!!!

There are probaly a dozen felony cases that could be made right here on this board if someone wanted to pursue it......

Guys.....save the pics for the woods and hunting and leave the fenced training sessions out of the photographs.....It's for your own good!

[Circle C]

Cody,


   Good advice!

[kevin]

What size does a pen become an enclosure that would make it a hunt?  Anyone know?

[Black Gold]

Kevin,

That is a grey area that hasn't been ruled on by case law as of yet as far as I know......If you can't see fence in the picture/video then you should be fine.....(from an evidence standpoint)

[TrueBlueLacys]

Though I agree that people should be cautious with what they post and say, this response sorta surprises me.

When I posted this story on TDHA, I expected to see criticism of a bunch of morons that will once again give ethical dog hunters a bad name because it just so happens they used a hog and dogs for their perverse entertainment. Seven pit bulls in a cage with a pig? That is not hog dogging.

But saying ethical dog hunters need to watch their back seems to be admitting that what these idiots have done is equivalent to legal hunting practices. Be smart, be humane, but still be proud of what you do. If you aren't, hog dogging will die a slow death here in Texas.

[Circle C]

TrueBlue,

    Please don't take offense to what I am about to say, but I don't trust anything I read in a newspaper. Reporters/journalists don't report the w,w,w,w,w,h anymore. They report what they want people to believe.

"6 Allegedly Allowed Pit Bulls to Attack Caged Hog"
"bull dogs violently attacking a feral hog in a small enclosure."

Was it a cage, or was it a pen? two entirely different things to me.

"

Taylor said it was not clear if any of the dogs had been used in dog fighting, but he added that the vicious attack on the feral hog was a tactic used to teach dogs to fight."

Where did they get this from? Using a pig to train a dog to fight?

Now from reading the article as it is written, it gives the impression that there were 7 dogs attacking one hog. Could it be that they were training 7 different young catch dogs individually to see if they will catch in the woods, and they all happen to be on the same video?

I am not defending the guys in the article, but there is not enough info in the article for me to believe they are morons either. They might have been "testing" their litter of young bulldogs to see if they were ready for the real thing, only mistake they made in that case is videoing. Or they might have had 7 dogs on one hog in a cage... Cannot tell based on the article, at least not with my limited reading comprehension.

[eastexasoutdoors]

Here is the story in the Palestine paper


Seven dogs seized in raid

Suspects could be charged with animal cruelty

By PAUL STONE
The Palestine Herald

PALESTINE — Seven dogs, some of which are believed to be involved in fighting, were seized from a pair of Palestine residences Thursday, and authorities say six local men could ultimately be charged with cruelty to animals.

A video provided by Texas Parks & Wildlife Department game warden Karen Gray ultimately led to the seizure of the animals Thursday at separate residences on North Jackson and North Howard streets inside the Palestine city limits, Anderson County Sheriff Greg Taylor told the Herald-Press Thursday afternoon.

Area game wardens, including Gray, were recently working a case involving possible illegal deer hunting when one of the suspects produced a videotape of a group of men watching as pit bulls attacked a feral hog, according to the sheriff.

“There are six people in the video and they are causing several pit bulls to attack a feral hog inside a kennel,” Taylor said. “They were mauling this hog. It’s definitely an unpleasant thing to watch.”

At one point on the tape, Taylor said one of the hog’s ears was bitten off by one of the attacking dogs. One of the men observing the attack casually picked up the ear and tossed it to the side, according to the sheriff.

“They were having a large time,” Taylor said in disgust.

The incident portrayed on the tape took place “approximately six-to-eight months ago” at a location outside the Palestine city limits, but in Anderson County, according to the sheriff.

Authorities ultimately determined the identity of all persons portrayed on the videotape through investigation, according to the sheriff.

Taylor said the men, who all reside in Palestine, range in age from 25 to 29.

“We’re turning the case over to the (Anderson County) district attorney’s office for indictments,” the sheriff stated.

On Thursday, two pit bulls were seized from the North Jackson residence, while five more dogs — four of which are pit bulls — were seized from the North Howard residence, according to the sheriff.

At least some of the seized dogs are believed to have been used in the attack against the hog last year, according to Taylor.

“Maybe not all (of the dogs), but some,” the sheriff said.

A hearing before Anderson County Justice of the Peace James Todd to determine custody of the seized dogs is scheduled to be held at 2 p.m. Wednesday at the Anderson County Courthouse.

Cruelty to animals is a state jail felony punishable by six months-to-two years in a state jail facility.

————

Paul Stone may be contacted via e-mail at pstone@palestineherald.com

[Black Gold]

TrueBlue,

I'm not supporting anything done illegally......Like CircleC said, I dont trust anything reported by media.....they slant it the way the want it to read.....At the same time I wont take a stand against guys when I havent seen the video with my own eyes.

I agree 100%......Keep things ethical and be responsible and you dont have much to worry about, but TODAY it is illegal (FELONY) to have 2 animals in a pen and have one bite each other.  This goes for bay pens, training pens, or anything with 4 walls.......

MANY people use pens to train pups and CD's in......My post is to remind those to keep what they do off of film because you never know when some PETA types will grab a picture and take it to a county or district attorney and DEMAND charges to be filed..........I'm watching the back of my fellow hunters by keeping them educated and aware.

If some guys put six pits in a pen and let them rip apart a pig for the fun of it....well then they can lie in the grave they dug.......but only the video will tell the real story...not some newspaper article written by PETA.......Reguardless......ALL hog-doggers can learn from this.......

[Mike]

That's prime example of why we all need to watch what we say and post on the internet.

[Wmwendler]

First of all what those folks were reported to do is not hog dogging or even close in my opinion.  No more than putting a cow in a pen and letting some dogs chew on it could be considered using cow dogs.  I for one hope they will be charged to the fullest, atleast those folks wont be giving ligitimate hog doggers a bad name for the two years they spend locked up.  I commend the media for the story they ran, they did'nt relate this to hog hunting or hog dogging.  They just simply stated what happened,  that they turned a bunch of put bulls on a feral hog and let them attack it.  They grouped them with dog fighters, which is where these kinds of people belong.

Waylon

[L3Outdoors]

Not trying to offend anyone, but hog hunters are our own worst enemy. We argue about styles, put pictures of cut dogs, write posts telling how many dogs the BIG hog killed, tick off land owners and other non dog hunters because we have permition, and drive through town with bloody dogs and hogs tied to the trailer. All these things do is hurt other hog doggers. Hog dogging is PETA's new ace in the hole. Its a easy win for them with all the ammo we volentaraly give them. Doggging has always been taboo and always will be if we dont clean up our act. I know Krystal used to write many articles about the bad image we give our selfs in Wild Boar USA mabee Cody will be kind enough to post it so everyone can read it. The rules of the TDHA contest reflect these fellings also. "No hurt or injured dog are alowed on the contest grounds". TDHA fights for dog hunters but no amount of yearly dues can fight against the evidence that is posted on this sight alone. Just think if you were to take some of the posts on this sight and give them to someone that has never hunted what they would think especialy if it was taken out of context. I love hunting with my dogs, but I just dont see it lasting if we dont work hard to clean up the image of the sport.

[Mike]

L3, I hear what your saying, but we're not going to "hide" our sport either. Find something on here that is offensive? We don't allow pics of cut up dogs and allow things to be said that shouldn't be said... if you know what I mean.

Yea, we kill hogs and there's blood involved... but that's involved in any kind of hunting.

If people are offended by hunting... then they shouldn't be on here.

[L3Outdoors]

Mike I was more just trying to get people to think about what a PETA person could take out of context. I also was saying that hunters should stand together because we are the only people that fight for us. If you see another hunter doing something that makes the sport look bad call them on it and mabee they will see your point and change it next time. I personaly dont find anything offensive on this or any of the other sites, but if I was a PETA dork I could find plenty of stuff to take out of context and try to show the brutality of the sport. There is a picture of a baddly cut dog on one of the posts right now. If I was PETA and putting a file together it would be easy. Thats all I meant by my post sorry if it came out wrong.

[TrueBlueLacys]

Yes, as a former journalist that wants to return to the field, I do view the media in a slightly different light Sure, they get it wrong sometimes, but from experience that is usually due to overworked staffs that can't get enough research, not some perceived bias. And, comparing both of these stories, it sounds like the situation was indeed messed up. In addition to the matching descriptions, it was the game warden that turned them in, not some rogue PETA supporter, and an East Texas sheriff that gave some pretty strong quotes against them. I don't see a problem with the coverage, just the behavior being reported.

So, let's say you are a reporter, and you get the opportunity to do more research on this story. When you search the story, you come across this site. Instead of site members expressing their dismay at the situation, you see it used as a warning. As a reporter, my first reaction would be, what are they hiding?

Why act guilty when we are doing nothing wrong? Yes, there are some bad apples that give hog doggers a bad public image, but what happens when no one stands up to give dog hunters a better name? Instead of running scared, constantly shrinking back from public scrutiny, we should work at representing our sport in a respectful manner. There are plenty of other hunters that do it successfully. Hunting with dogs is intense, but as long as it is legal and we do it responsibly, people shouldn't be ashamed.

The best way to counter the bad press is to replace it with good press. But silence and secrecy is certainly not good press.

[Mike]

We must have missed the pic? My moderators and I all share the same ideas and keep things pretty much in check.

I think the general public is starting to see more and more how "wacko" PETA is. I could care less about all the animal rights groups... the mere fact that we hunt and fish sends them over the edge. My concern is our image to the general public.

[Mike]

"Hunting with dogs is intense, but as long as it is legal and we do it responsibly, people shouldn't be ashamed."

Well said and I agree with you 100%.

[TrueBlueLacys]

Mike, I think you guys do a great job of moderating this board, you should be proud of the site y'all have built.

And don't get me wrong, I agree with Mr. Mason and Cody and everyone else, you need to exercise common sense with what you post. You have to think about how a picture or video might be viewed without the proper context. I just think it is important to think about the consequence of overly censoring ourselves as well.

[Black Gold]

True Blue,

There are 2 aspects of this post that are being addressed at the same time.

1.)  Legal aspects of doing any training in a pen if one animal bites another.

and

2.) Image and portrayal of hog hunters by hog hunters.

Both of which have nothing to do with using 6 pits to kill a shoat in a pen (on the surface)

Hopefully it was just some stupid people doing something cruel and they will get what's coming to them.....and hopefully it will never be linked to hog-dog hunting at all.

BUT......It stimulated thought by myself and others and hopefully thru the posts that everyone made our fellow hunters thought long and hard about training methods, our sport's image and how we help/hurt it and what we can do to help it.

If I wasn't clear let me be now.....I totally disagree with the behavior described in the report......

The basis for all my previous text was to make people think........

You stated: 

Why act guilty when we are doing nothing wrong?

There are many folks who start pups in pens and even a 6 month old dog catching a 20 pound pig (even without breaking the skin) is still a felony when done in a pen.  I'd say the overwhelming majority of people here have used simmilar training techniques in the past......I'm not gonna sugar-coat anything, but instead I want people to be aware of the law to protect themselves in the future.  With that knowledge, the exact training exercise can now be performed in the middle of an open field and not one law is being violated.  The information could keep someone out of trouble in the future. 

Our image is very important...I agree, and have spent years trying to build on it.........but we have to educate ourselves and discuss the real issues in order to better ourselves as a sport......Sugar makes it taste good for a while but it takes SALT to preserve it forever!