"Squirrel factor"

[Noah]

To hell with "off subject"... I use these threads to brainstorm... all ideas welcome 

I agree that there are many variables when looking at a dog... all one can do in the end is trust his gut in my opinion...

[hogaholicswife]

Goober is 7 years old and still has more heart than any of the other dogs on our yard.  He is a fat old man now but in his younger days he was a solid athletic 65lbs of pure go and catch.     

He is a solid wind dog that will stick with it but you can also put him in a head / retention pond and he is probably going to range any where from 500 to 800 yards +/- and if he can't stop it he sticks with it until we can cut him off or it stops to bay.  He will also watch a spot light when we are hunting an open field.

In his younger days he would go much farther and didn't take any note of who was calling him off, he still doesn't if his mood strikes him right.

As a young dog he was all catch, the one that if he was out you were listening for and if he was baying you had better make it there quick because as soon as he seen an opening he was catching it...he can still get that way now but has finally learned to back up and bay as long as he doesn't have another dog with him. 

He is semi-retired and should have been out along time ago, we have put alot into to him to keep him with us and he is a 'house favorite' whether we have visitors here at the house or we take him hunting.

His vice is he will bark on trail when it is real thick but any more he doesn't have much of a voice so now when he is out we have to watch the Garmin to see when he is stopped.  We took him Saturday and he out lasted the young dogs....although we could never get anything stopped.  He also doesn't like to share  his dog box, but I think that is just because he knows he can get the best of my husband

He is the Uncle to our Chance dog, if that gives you an idea of how he was built when he was younger )he was the red ring neck dog I had posted a while back)....now he looks like a fat line backer  but he deserves it.

[Noah]

Sounds like a nice dog... What would you like to improve about him?

My Shine dog is my rock, but she could also be improved upon... as a young dog, she started out real rough... caught a lot of hogs because of it.   This last year, I have done my damnedest to get her killed... but it seems, as she's gotten older and wiser, she has learned to give the bad ones space.... and developed WAAAAAY more bottom than I would like...  These days, it is not uncommon for her to stay with a runner for 3+ hrs... too much for me... and I find myself not hunting her as much because of it...  Also appears that she throws this trait to her offspring... as they all will individually stay hooked on a hog for HOURS at a time already...  ... not what I was hoping for lol...

When I breed her again, it will be with a short range, ROUGH, busy, PROPERLY BUILT dog... preferably a Florida Cur...

I am open to suggestions...

[Reuben]

Noah,

I see those traits that Shiner has as positive...I like a dog that sticks no matter what...only thing I would do is add more grit to stop the hog sooner... and the dog making it a shorter race because the dog did it's job and stopped the hog... and... the dog did not quit the race because it lacked bottom...

[Noah]

Defenitely not afraid to add more grit... but would like to lose some of the bottom... in my experience, too much grit + too much bottom = dead dog...

[Reuben]

Defenitely not afraid to add more grit... but would like to lose some of the bottom... in my experience, too much grit + too much bottom = dead dog...

true... running vest an option??? or let nature cull the dogs that throw caution to the wind...

[Noah]

Run that type of dog by his self, no vest or cut collar.

[geronimo]

breed your snapper to a great built bob, then take the best built roughest male u like and put over shine. u should get the grit and loose bottom in that first breed. still will have some good blood?

[Noah]

Ol' Snapps would produce some good dogs I'm sure, just too many things I don't like about her to make a breeding... Would if I had to though.

[hogaholicswife]

Conformation wise, I think he is too wide....he has a gait instead of a smooth stride, for being such a big dog he moves well but I have seen him out run because of it too.  He does however have a nice 'ice box' build to him in the sense that his top is straight, I am not a huge fan of one's rump being higher than their shoulders but that probably reverts back to the days of livestock judging  it is just a habit and he has a nice deep girth so even though as big as he is he doesn’t get winded easy like some.

Personality, I wouldn't change him.  He is one of the most unflappable dogs I have been around but he does have that tick for strangers and their dogs but I think that just comes from being hunted 'alone' for his entire lifetime but he is also sociable….which is something this younger generation we have now lacks.

You are right, too much grit and bottom is a bad combination….but a vest on one that has a lot of bottom is a bad combination as you run the chance of overheating / fatigue so it is almost a double edged sword. 

We bred Goober's sister who is strictly bay to a dog exactly like Goober (minus personality / add squirrel factor), the outcome was Chance who will beat the bushes at 250 to 500 yards and will bay like crazy by himself but put another dog with him and he becomes an ear chewer on anything over a hundred or so pounds....which to me shows he isn't fully committed and there is still some hesitation to it, which IMO will wind up getting him hurt...I would rather have one that is strictly catch so they can learn their 'style'  or strictly bay, I can tell you I am not a fan of the semi-committed crowd.  He is not sociable but will come to you if called albiet he cowers.

[Noah]

Very good description miss Ashley, he sounds a lot like Joker, Shiner's father.  He was also a big, rawboned dog that had a distinct gate...  do you see a patern in your dogs that more males come out straight catch than females?  I'd like to say I've seen one, but haven't 

[chainrated]

The first thing I would do is consider what made "Bob" what he is.. Is he linebred? Is he scatterbred? Is he an outcross? What kind of dogs did his sire and dam throw? When you breed 2 dogs the blood behind them is what matters more than the individual dog. I've seen lots of real nice dogs that never threw anything close to themselves.

[Noah]

He's linebred FL Cur cow/hog bred, known lineage... throws strong genetics... just some "squirrel" along with it... 

Chain, trust me, you'd like him...

[chainrated]

Then I would definitely try it if he's everything you're lookin for. When you're dealing with linebred dogs you're going to get a few coyote acting ones. Just cull em and keep goin..
Be careful what you wish for though, before you know it you can end up with some pretty much straight catch dogs. We made a breeding , both linebred dogs, to try and get some real rough dogs that would still back up and bay a bad hog. Out of 6 pups, 5 of them were straight catch at a year old and the other one is a house dog.. He is the only one still alive..

[Noah]

HAHA, yep, I know exactly what you are saying... it is a fine, razor edge line....

[hogaholicswife]

I can't say, we have a very high ration of males and the few females we have aren't catching by themselves but they will help / egg it on with the males we have.