While we are at it .

[Circle C]

Parker,

   I am not sure how rabbits and barn rats handle inbreeding, but a number of animals horses for example will push out the young males as they mature. This keeps the sons from breeding their moms, aunts, half sisters, etc.  Now the strongest one may challenge the stud of another band, or within the same band it was born into, which would allow limited inbreeding, but at the same time only allows the strongest to procreate within its band.
 
   I think it has been stated plenty of times, but the only ones that successfully reproduce without getting trapped are the ones that cull, and cull hard. Just like mother nature does.

[TexasHogDogs]

I still say if you inbreed too tightly you are asking for problems. Read what Barlow wrote about the Plott guy that did.


I agree with you and yes this should be the point to were you stop at this point you are tearing down the very line you have produced because you have now bred so far into the line that the line has noting else to give except the unwanted !!!!!!!!!


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Inbreeding does not cause the problem... problems in the genetic material cause the problem.

When the "breeder" inbreeds it may not cause the direct problem at first ,  its when the breeder dont know when to stop.  I sure think when you inbreed you yourself the breeder is  contrubiting to the problem because you are doubling and tripleing the same genes over and over so therefore you are asking for problems the futher you go with it .  We are not dealing with  wild animals that are  in the wild,  we are the breeders of a product so we control what we do so its us that contrubute to the problem at hand.  I dont understand why anyone would want to just keep inbreeding and inbreeding at one point are another you are going to come to the finished product which should be the goal in the first place atleast the way I think anyway may not be right with some folks but thats my ideal anyway.

Mr Parker said
 "its  when  you  have  bad  traits a nd  bad  physical problems  they  can  get  worse "

Great point !


Over the years I  have been ask hundreds of times how do you know when it is time to outcross your line after you have inbred and line bred it so much .

My anwser has always been.  I let mother nauter tell me when it is time to outcross .  Next question from them is well how do you know when she is telling you to outcross .  Its simple when you start getting liters  that a lacking and you start loosing things such as wind , abulity , speed , staminia , size and all the things the line is known for that is when mother nature is telling you hey man you have gone far enought .   Why would a person want to go anoy  futher there is no logical explenation other than he are she just wants to  and I say it is a waste of time after this happens you are  hurting the line of dogs and there is no use going any futher .  The line itself is telling you hey man this is enough you have trap all the good genes you are going to trap so why inbreed any more when you have gotton to the point to were you have done all you can do as far as traping the genes you have wanted to trap now you are going to far and starting to trap the unwanted genes  that tears a line of good dogs apart !

There is such a thing as a end product when this starts to happen that is the end product of inbreeding and hard core line breeding .   Wouldnt you think if you think not I would love to h ere why you think not .

TexasHogDogs

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Typically one inbreeds because he wants a faster way to an end.  His goal is to cull all of the bad genetic material out of his line.  I have no idea how far people want to go with it, I am just telling you why people have done it in the past.  You seem to think if you go to far you will get bad genetic offspring.  Well, in reality you have not fixed the genes and your line will have those traits in it forever. 

Oh, and no matter how much I hear it, it is still as false as always.  When seed and egg meet the offspring is always 50/50....Always...All the superior genes of the inbred dogs can do is contribute 50%...I am 50% my father and 50% my mother...I have 46 chromosomes.  23 from my mother and 23 my father.

A dog has 78 chromosomes.  39 from 1 parent and 39 from the other parent.  Now, if those dogs are linebred/inbred many of the chromosomes on both sides will be comon as this type of breeding narrows the field of possibilities.

I am not trying to offend anyone, but I have taken genetics classes from mendel's peas all the way up to cloning, and have read everything I can find on dog breeding, no where have I ever heard or read that one speciman can contribute more genetic material than its mate.  This is an "Old Wives" Tale.

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Genes are Dominent or recessive...it is true that one mate could have more of the recessive/dominance genes than the other.  This would make one think that one parent had contributed more/less to the whelping..

[skoalbandett]

A wise Race horse trainer and dog man I know said this:

If you want faster, fitter, smarter and sounder horses, take them to africa where the fastest and toughest lions live. Turn em all out loose, then go back in a few years. Those ,if any are left, you may have what you are looking for.
We'll the hogs in this country obviously aint in africa, but it's all but the same thing in this evolution of hog I have seen. The fast, strong, smart and determined are surviving to reproduce like kinds and dogs?? We'll In my opinion by a long  shot,  the average hunting dog across the country is going down hill.  Folks have sure agrued that point numberous times on internet boards and such. some think average hunting dogs are better today, some think worse, guess it depends on your  opinion orexperience or perception of it all, or maybe your motive....