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Reuben
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« on: October 16, 2015, 02:33:49 pm » |
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obviously there are many ways as there are different styles of hunting...
I like a dog that is all around that starts early...if a young dog takes a while to range or if it is a me too dog it for sure will never be bred...test at a young age for that natural inclination to range and if he is a natural then the pup could possibly be on track for breeding if all else works out...
as pups I will socialize them but I will spend enough time in the yard until they are bored and go off and do there own thing...If I have the chance the next thing is to take them to the woods without grown dogs and turn them out in a good location...where the woods are fairly open I will turn the pups loose and then I'll sit back and let them roam for an hour or so...early in the morning is best while it is cool and the pups are fresh and raring to go...I make sure to ignore them so they will move out...if they are bred right they should roll out...look for the leader...after 2 or 3 times you will know who leads out...also it will be time to leave the leader at home and see if another pup will step up and take the lead...make note of what happens in case you want to breed one of the pups at a later date. pups that roll out with the lead pups will actually roll out with the lead dogs when hunting...but if we are breeding dogs we want those that are genetically inclined to naturally range...
once they are older turn them in to a bay or turn them out on lots of fresh sign with the hog dogs...young pups will tend to bark when they get left behind so might want to wait some before hunting them...If I have my way I want my pups fresh and wanting to go/do something...I move very slow so the dogs will leave out...even stop for a long while if needed...getting pups started is way more important than going out there and catching hogs...stop long enough to make the pups get bored so they will move out...
nose...when hunting I like to watch my dogs closely if they tire and start hunting closer as we will then road or hunt pipelines...I will move slow and watch the dogs...if they are interested in the wind currents I look and see where it is channeling from and I will then walk them in so they can follow the scent to the hogs...just enough help to help them figure it out...
if they are roading and get interested in a scent on the ground I stop and wait on them to work it out...if they have trouble with it I will stop and walk it out for a ways to see if they can work it out...
if they trail off into the woods I will wait there until they strike or come back...I never want my pups to lose focus on account they want to catch up to me...this to me is key...this also trains them to work all tracks that are worth running...in using their noses to the fullest of their abilities...
some dogs will never range and I will not waste my time with them...
a pup or young dog can be ruined with a shocking collar...make sure they are baying hogs in a bay pen and running a few in the woods before using a shock collar...if you shock them for running a deer they might associate the shock with running off into the woods and this will shut down the ranging real quick...
if they stop to work a track and you haul butt on the wheeler they will leave the track and try to catch up to you...they are being trained to stay with the wheeler and not to hunt...we need to get into the dogs mind as much as possible...it is fairly easy once we get it figured out...
for me it is about timing and making the right decisions for that particular moment...making it a learning experience for the pups and dogs...
some folks dump the dogs out and roll out...that catches hogs but the dogs can pass up many hogs...and tend to look for hotter tracks...they might be average dogs with this type of handling and top notch with the right handling...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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liefalwepon
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2015, 04:57:35 pm » |
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great post reuben, I really like the way you train and select your pups, Its in alignment with the ways I have been discovering for myself through trial and error. I have a litter of mountain curs a buddy gave me that Im picking through, your input has been very helpful!
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WHACK EM N STACK EM!!!
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l.h.cracker
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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2015, 06:08:58 pm » |
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Good post Reuben as always. These are the exact qualities that I look for in a dog and use the same situational processes to determine the best. Pretty much to a T, your methods that you speak of are exactly what made sense to me in finding and starting my own dogs I haven't been in this game for a really long time as yourself but I believe that if you understand a dog and how they work it just makes sense to go about the whole process just as you've described.
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Wisdom is something you get right after you need it.
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Black Streak
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 06:39:29 pm » |
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I like your style! I bring my pups up almost identical to how you do. Actually didn't see anything different that you do that i do not. Reading puppies and having patience with them and setting them up to me is one of the biggest joys I get out of dogs. Only problem with me is all my dogs are catch dogs so as puppies their time is limited in the pastures because when they get so old, I have to keep them out of the pastures for their own good so they don't strike a pig and get themselves killed by trying to catch the darn thing. Often times I would hint the heck out of a pasture in the morning with good dogs and then take the pups in afterwards. Kinda how i get around them being catch dogs.
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oconee
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2015, 07:12:45 pm » |
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The main thing that comes to mind when I read is that everyones ideal of "top notch" isn't the same. Now its well documented that I don't want my dogs to range until they smell a track or a hog and that is just my style but I can honestly say the 3 grown dogs on my yard right now were 100% naturals ar everything I expect them to do. I did nothing more than show them a hog in the pen and they each flipped out on sight. The very first exposure in the woods they were at the end of the race. The very first time we got a good rig on the truck they were blowing up. I have never seen one of them quit a hog race or bay-up. What I'm saying is, NOTHING I done had any influence on their outcome whatsoever. They preformed to suit me from day one. Now I have had three other plotts since began I hunt them that were the same way and one got killed and a guy BOUGHT the other two. If I told you guys how many I have went through to get them 6 in the past 5 yrs you would think the plott breed was a disgrace and worthless. Along the lines I had plenty that probably would've made better dogs if I wanted to train them but I don't and I am happy with what I have and will be breeding and moving forward with.
If I have to accomidate a pup to build its confidence, it won't suit me in the end.
If I can break a pups spirit with a little light shocking for correction, it won't suit me in the end.
If a pup won't take a track and try to jump it without me stopping and giving it moral support, it won't suit me in the end.
If he quits races I think he shouldn't have, it won't suit me in the end.
I could go on forever but you get my point. I'm sure this entire post will be taken as arrogance but I honestly don't mean it that esy. JMO guys!
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Briar
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2015, 08:11:17 pm » |
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Nice post Reuben, thanks for writing it. I also appreciate hearing your opinions Oconee. It's good to hear the thinking behind how a man goes about raising his dogs.
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Reuben
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2015, 07:39:15 pm » |
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thanks...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Judge peel
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2015, 08:15:39 pm » |
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I like what was said and get it but I ain't in to all the this and that's breeding to a t and the training is beyond the time that I can spend to search every little crevices to find there abilities. I want a dog that doesn't need me to be force fed it but I don't need it to be a Robert Redford ether ( some older cats might get the joke lol ). To me it needs to be early starter don't mean I will thro it to the wolfs at 8 months ether. But I can't wait till it long in the tooth ether. I want a dog that stays busy will take a track that ain't to old. Range ain't a big concern but few hundred yards is plenty where I hunt. Training can do a lot and it make ok dogs a lot better but a dog that's going to get it done was going to with any thing we did or didn't do. Kinda like a raft on a river all you can do is a bit of guiding lol
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Reuben
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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2015, 08:21:47 pm » |
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Kinda like a raft on a river all you can do is a bit of guiding lol
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basically speaking...that is exactly what it is...just explaining the thought process is all I am doing...it is training but not training...lol   but as you said...just guidance more than anything else... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Judge peel
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2015, 08:24:18 pm » |
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Ruben I have seen a lot of miss use of those shock collars you can ruin a dog fast if you don't use it with cation and knowledge
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Judge peel
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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2015, 08:26:43 pm » |
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I can tell you put much thought into what you do. I just never been that guy lol. But if some guys didn't we would have lesser dogs as a whole
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TheRednose
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2015, 09:21:16 pm » |
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Oconee that is a good and honest post. I like hearing different philosophies. I liked reading yours too Reuben. You have some very solid methods and theories, thanks for all of the info.
I don't know a whole lot about hog dogs as I am still pretty new to the sport and trying to learn what will suit me best. I think I know but as with anything the more I do it the more I learn what I do and don't want. I kind of have the same thoughts on this as Judges analogy. And though I am still learning about hog dogs I am a dogman and have have been training dogs and raising and breeding dogs for a long long time, and some dogs have it and some do not. And with other types of dog work I have seen average dogs become good with patience, good training, and handling but superstars are born not made in my opinion.
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