Puppy Development...

[Goose87]

There was a very good discussion on breeding better dogs not to long ago, but there has been little talk of what to do once you have the pups, I believe that pup development is probably just as important as the actual cross itself. I'd like to hear what everyone does when raising pups from weaning to the woods.

[Cajun]

From the time they are 3 weeks old I handle them as much as I can. I want my dogs socialized. I cannot stand a shy dog. I normally leave them in the pen until they are about 9 weeks old as I like them to have at least two sets of shots before I turn them loose. I just let them be pups until they are 5 or 6 months old & don't force anything on them or expose them to anything. Once they are running rabbits and anything else I chain them up & start teaching them to handle. I will run them in my pen as long as I have a running hog in there but do not want them on any hog that will hurt them. I will expose them to a hog in my small bay pen but nothing that will hurt them, just to get them baying. If they are catchy, I will let them bay a bigger hog. Once they are 8 or 9 months I start carrying them to the woods.

[Slim9797]

Still tons of trial and error ahead of me before I can say there's some method to my madness. But I've gotten a couple pups going okay that I've raised. Usually just show them a pig when they're real young, a few times until around 3-4 months when they're real fired up about a hog. Then I put them up until they calm down, get their legs under them, and seem like they can be serious around the big dogs. Then I take them hunting. No break in period, no turning them into bays. They get kicked out with the big dogs from the get go. When they start hunting good and staying with big dogs. I'll do mock hunts with them. Turn a shoat loose, wait 15-20 minutes then cut the pup loose at the same spot and just wait. See if he will go get bayed, as long as he shows some effort of running the track I'll be happy, then I'll turn out a older dog for the puppy to follow and they go bay the pig. Do that a couple times until they find and bay the pig without help. Then it's back to hunting..... I don't mess with pups at all unless they're working, don't pet them, nothing, try to teach them their name and that's about it. I've come up with that regime from talking with older successful folks and just kind of trying out stuff and seeing what I thought worked and what didn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[justincorbell]

I follow pretty much the same plan Cajun does with a few slight differences. I do not have the ability to let my puppies run free but I do have a pretty good sized puppy yard that I raise all of mine in. I mess with and play with my pups for a few minutes just about every day and will let them out to explore as often as I can, I reckon I would be ok leaving them out until they were 11-12weeks of age to run free but I don't want to take the chance both of having one get run over or stolen so I keep em in the pup yard out of view of the road unless I am around to keep an eye on em.

I show my pups their first hog at roughly 4-5 months of age for the first time, now this is where I do things somewhat different. I have a jack russell going on 4yrs old and since I have had her I have never showed a pup a hog without her there. She stays in the puppy yard with the pups from a very young age and pretty much teaches them manners and acts as a replacement mother of sorts. I truely believe the pups learn alot from her by being around her as they grow and she has made my life SUPER easy when it comes to starting pups. I will get a hog roughly 20lbs when the pups are around 4.5 months old and turn it loose in the puppy yard, then I simply sit back and watch the show, my jack russell has a great handle on her and I can sick her on a hog or call her off easily, I will wait til turn her on the hog util after the pups have the time to check it out to see what they will do on their own, if they do not immediately start baying I turn her to the hog and the rest is history. Since I have started using her I have had an honest to God 100% success rate with the pups ive started as far as getting the fired up and baying a hog, they feed off of her and it literally turns into a monkey see monkey do scenario. I let the pups bay until I can tell they are getting bored with it then I take the hog out and dont show them another for 4-6 weeks. The second time they see a hog I rarely have to use my jack russell to get em fired up.

After I do the above I simply leave the pups be to grow and be pups until they are of age to go to the big woods. Once they are old enough to go to the woods I start turning them loose 1 at a time with a grown dog, I prefer to only run 1 pup at a time in the woods to minimize them playing and goofing off.

I wont say this is the perfect way or the only way but it is how I have been doing it since I got my little jack russell and it has worked out great for me.

[Judge peel]

I have heard not to pet or handle working dog from tons of people It might work for some but i feel this is very wrong. First off dogs are pack animals I want all my dogs to know and understand I am the leader of the pack. This is obtained by handling them every day petting them teaching them all the thing that you want a grown dog to do.  The dogs hunt for us as a family not a tool. I tell them to come back load up or what ever and they do it. This is learned like our kids if you don't start early your in trouble. The dog is going to hunt or not hunt it don't have much to do with you petting the pup at 4 months old. I am very concerned about turning a young dog loose in the woods with out sequence of milestone first. Faster is not better the slow road prevail in most things. I like the pups to start early but I don't thro them into the fire ether. I will do few mock hunts little pen work to see if they have something then don't worry bout it to much let them get a bit of age to em then see what they got


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mike]

I'm the same way... let pups be pups. I turn mine loose every evening and let them have the run of the place. When they start disappearing for an hour or so, it's time to get put up. I'll start them in the woods when they're mature enough to handle it... usually around 9 months to a year old. I judge a dog between age 1 and 2... by 2 they should be very well started and on their way to making a dog. They can be culled anywhere along the way if not progressing. But it takes time and swine to make a dog... hard to do when you're hunting once a week.

I see so many people rushing their pups, expecting too much out of them and culling way too soon.

[CHRIS H.]

Good thread y'all !
I've been working a lot with a field trial pro ( big running independent bird dogs )  and I'm seeing a lot of similarities in pup development.

He has a litter on his property that he lets out and I've seen them get  bolder and bolder ..

They'll venture out further and further .. And when they're done they'll find their way back to the pen . 

There's horses .. Older dogs , bird Pens and loose quail on the property.

Could a pup get hurt ? Yes , but think what they learn very early in life vs learning it at 1 or 2 years old.

This doesn't work for everyone because of location ( roads , coyotes .. Neighbors ) all could be a factor

In that case you'd have to rely on getting them on much exposer as you can ..

At the same time he doesn't want to raise a litter of coyotes , so he also handles them as much as he can .. Picks them up turns them upside down .. Things like that. I love



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CHRIS H.]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CHRIS H.]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CHRIS H.]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CHRIS H.]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Goose87]

I do all of the same as well as far as letting them run loose and letting them become dogs, I lived on a ranch I was running and couldn't let the last litter I raised do that because of a very busy road I lived on, I had four 15x15 stalls coming of the side of the barn that I kept them in, this litter I'm raising now I'm back to living at my place and have been able to let them run loose since birth up until 4 months, they are 5 months now and I let them out just about every other evening and usually take them for a walk to try and jump a rabbit, you can see the differences in the litters as far as the way they act when compared at the same age, I've read up a good bit on early brain development in pups and how their diet plays a key role in it and fed these walker cross pups I'm raising now a very good and balanced puppy food and it may just be me but at the age these pups are and how smart they are I believe it made a difference. I bought the Walk with Wick books and tried to follow what he did with this litter now.

[Goose87]

I have heard not to pet or handle working dog from tons of people It might work for some but i feel this is very wrong. First off dogs are pack animals I want all my dogs to know and understand I am the leader of the pack. This is obtained by handling them every day petting them teaching them all the thing that you want a grown dog to do.  The dogs hunt for us as a family not a tool. I tell them to come back load up or what ever and they do it. This is learned like our kids if you don't start early your in trouble. The dog is going to hunt or not hunt it don't have much to do with you petting the pup at 4 months old. I am very concerned about turning a young dog loose in the woods with out sequence of milestone first. Faster is not better the slow road prevail in most things. I like the pups to start early but I don't thro them into the fire ether. I will do few mock hunts little pen work to see if they have something then don't worry bout it to much let them get a bit of age to em then see what they got


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with you JP, I've tried all sorts of methods, from leaving them in the pen from weaning to the woods, to letting them sleep in the house. This is just me, I believe the best way is to socialize them as much as u can and put the alpha impression on them from the very beginning, I handle mine as much as I can I wont have a dog I have to work hard to put a handle on and I've found it makes a major difference in the way your dogs respond to you, I used to be the guy who said his dogs were nothing more than a tool but the deeper I got into this mess they are like family, that's not saying I won't deal with one accordingly because they are going to eventually perform to my liking or they'll go, but each one of them knows I care about them but also know that I'm the alpha and will get them right however needed, I've seen a big difference in all my dogs including pups. When I say socialized I'm not talking about taking them to the TSC parking lot and let everybody pet them or taking them for walks in the park, they are exposed to me and family members and few folks I hunt with and that's it. This is one of my favorite parts of hog hunting is to develop young dogs, anybody can take a finished dog out and catch hogs, I like the challenge of getting one to that stage.

[justincorbell]

May seem strange but the line of mutts ive been messin with for a few years now tends to usually throw a couple coyotish pups in every litter regardless of how often I mess with them. I play with em daily when I feed and water but due to them being in a big puppy yard I cant just walk up and grab them if they dont want to be messed with as they have alot of room to run to get away from me. When I have a pup or two like that in my yard I don't continually try to get my hands on them and after a couple failed attempts I will leave them alone and let them do their own thing as I think it does more harm than good to corner them up when they are young. When I get a pup that acts like this I pretty much just ignore him and let him do his thing, I have learned over time that a chain will tame em down quite well and therefore if I have an ornery pup I will let him be until its time to put him on a chain. Every time I have put a coyotish pup on a chain I have had em tame down within a couple weeks, when I go to feed them I  will walk up their chain so that they cannot get away and them I make it a point to pet on em pretty good and continually raise their heads up to get em to relax and realize that im not going to hurt em, it works pretty good for me, by the time they are ready to go to the woods I don't have problems putting my hands on them. Just something I have dealt with and its my way of fixing the problem as it arises.

[Goose87]

I'm smell what your stepping in Corbell, I do dang near the same thing, the litter of cur dogs I raised at the ranch several of them were sorta like that, one in particular is still like that to some degree, he stretches his chain out anytime some body walks up to him, if I kneel down and talk to him he will come to me.

[Reuben]

those shy pups just pop up once in a while seems like for no reason...those pups I tend to give extra attention every chance I get...they will come out of it but they require a lighter hand and lighter discipline because it does not take much to correct them...sometimes thes pups grow up to be as good as the best...in the wrong hands these pups could possibly be ruined...

Handling my pups start when the pups are a week old...I handle them and at 2 weeks I will throw an old sweaty T-shirt or old sweaty socks in the whelping box so they can smell me 24/7...I feed them a wild head at about 6 weeks...I make sure they are hungry and throw the head out in the yard and turn them out...I do this 3 or 4 times...at about that time I also turn them out always before feeding...I let them play for a good while until they are a little bored and I step out with some liver or treat and call them to me...they will come running because I have already conditioned them to raw meat...as they come running I shoot a few blanks to condition them to gunfire...I always watch to make sure they are ok with it...once they are the next time I shoot down by them as they mill around...I want them to smell the burning gun powder...after 4 or 5 sessions I am done with that part of training...around the 7 or 8 weeks They will really like the raw meat...I scatter tidbits in the yard upwind so they can wind the tidbits...I open the gate and his them on like I was hissing the big dogs on...I watch to see who took to it naturally and who finds more consistently...I do this 7-10 times over a period of a month or 2...
I take them to the woods at a young age and watch and see who ranges and Leads etc...

a couple of bay pen sessions here and there and always observing to see who will be a keeper and a breeder...

[cscott]

I like to let my pups run my yard until I have to put them up for some reason. The other thing I like to do is when I feed about twice a week I like to feed them on the ground and put the feed over about 100 yards so they have to use there nose to find it. And you can see which pup can do it and which pup fallow.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Judge peel]

I ain't a fan of shy stand offish or skiddish dogs. I hear people say that those type hunt better but I ain't seen it. Guys breed that type of dog like its a good gene I don't think it is. I truly believe the best thing you can do for a pup is make it feel comfortable with you and respect u as its leader. All dogs are not good and if you think by handling the pups are bad you are wrong. If the dog is going to be good bad or average don't have much to do with you handling it. Now the way you handle it might. I have seen guys shock pups kick them drag them this don't make a young dog hunt. Or old dog. If the dog has a touch of want to and a desire to please you that can stretch a long ways then add a touch of nose and brains then you might be on to something. Old wise tell was to put butter on a burn that don't do nothing it soothes it for a min cuz the butter is cool and a ton of people did it lol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk