Age old topic: To Breed or Not to breed?

[t-dog]

So this isn’t to discuss how to cull, but to cull or not to cull in general, maybe not even cull, but to breed. Seems anymore that it is harder to find performance animals, especially in our discipline. It doesn’t matter if it’s find dogs or catch dogs. I personally believe there are many variables from the number of styles to the knowledge/experience needed to make educated decisions. I was sent a clipping by a friend that I think really reflects my opinion so I thought I’d share it.


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[BA-IV]

There is no perfect dog, just what you’re willing to accept and live with. That’s a concession and not an excuse, and it took me a good while to learn the difference when it came to what was breed worthy in my opinion.

For example, I have a male dog that is as good as anything you wanna take to the woods. Pure cast dog, but can make him take a cold track like an old hound and has more bottom than most want to deal with, BUT he’s salty and I mean salty. He won’t let a hog run him much at all, and if he gets help, he’s prolly going to try the hog. Sometimes it busts a bay, and some times it takes a vet to put him back together. That’s a concession I’ll make. Ten years I wouldn’t have fed him, but a nice find dog is hard to find nowadays. So I’ve learned to hunt him to his strengths and go from there. Breeding wise, I plan on trying to breed him to a gyp inside his family and raise the ones that really wanna bay, and then cull the ones that don’t have the kinda hunt I want. It’s not guaranteed to work, but all you can do is try.

[t-dog]

BA-IV, I would consider that a concession as well. If he was mine and I was gonna breed to him, then I would breed him to a gyp that didn’t have enough bite. In my experience, you have to breed to the extreme to get the desired effects. So he’s got too much bite and if you breed him to a female that has that right bite, then your likely going to get more pups with too much bite still. If you breed him to the gyp that doesn’t have enough bite then you get a little closer to the desired effect…usually. Obviously there isn’t an exact formula or guarantee or this would be easy. I’ve tried doing it the same thing with the size of my catch dogs. It’s worked more times than not.


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[The Old Man]

Good solid dogs to good solid dogs from a good family, may produce a superstar. Superstars rarely produce up to their level but bred to a good solid dog may produce good solid dogs. We often pay too much attention to the strengths of individual traits rather than concentrating on a well balanced dog. By well balanced I mean good or better from truck to meat on the hook. It's tough to get there from scratch but can be done in time.

[Slim9797]

BA-IV, I would consider that a concession as well. If he was mine and I was gonna breed to him, then I would breed him to a gyp that didn’t have enough bite. In my experience, you have to breed to the extreme to get the desired effects. So he’s got too much bite and if you breed him to a female that has that right bite, then your likely going to get more pups with too much bite still. If you breed him to the gyp that doesn’t have enough bite then you get a little closer to the desired effect…usually. Obviously there isn’t an exact formula or guarantee or this would be easy. I’ve tried doing it the same thing with the size of my catch dogs. It’s worked more times than not.


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I would concur on this. Actually just did this last year. Picked up a young yella dog named shaw, put him through the ringer and he made a dog pretty quick. He was just ROUGH, which is exactly what I wanted. Sketch doesn’t have enough bite. She isn’t going to bite a hog and make him face her. She is by no means a “make them bay” kind of dog. She’s more of a “let the em bay” dog if that makes sense. So bred her to shaw with the idea of the 2 extremes hopefully landing me somewhere in between with the pups. We shall see.

I like the way that was worded, about the difference in making excuses vs concessions. I think it’s 100% right. It’s the difference in why they couldn’t get the job done, vs what they got the job done in spite of.
  I think at the very least every mans benchmark for breeding working animals of any sort, and certainly dogs. Can it get the job done alone at a high clip? If it needs help, or mitigated circumstances and variables to be successful, it ain’t the kind of animal i want a kennel full of, so why would I breed it?
 It’s a way too high percentage of people in my opinion breeding dogs that have no idea what they’re actually feeding/breeding because they’ve never taken a single dog on their yard solo and really watched and paid attention to what the dog does and is.


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[williamsld]

BA-IV, I would consider that a concession as well. If he was mine and I was gonna breed to him, then I would breed him to a gyp that didn’t have enough bite. In my experience, you have to breed to the extreme to get the desired effects. So he’s got too much bite and if you breed him to a female that has that right bite, then your likely going to get more pups with too much bite still. If you breed him to the gyp that doesn’t have enough bite then you get a little closer to the desired effect…usually. Obviously there isn’t an exact formula or guarantee or this would be easy. I’ve tried doing it the same thing with the size of my catch dogs. It’s worked more times than not.


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I would concur on this. Actually just did this last year. Picked up a young yella dog named shaw, put him through the ringer and he made a dog pretty quick. He was just ROUGH, which is exactly what I wanted. Sketch doesn’t have enough bite. She isn’t going to bite a hog and make him face her. She is by no means a “make them bay” kind of dog. She’s more of a “let the em bay” dog if that makes sense. So bred her to shaw with the idea of the 2 extremes hopefully landing me somewhere in between with the pups. We shall see.

I like the way that was worded, about the difference in making excuses vs concessions. I think it’s 100% right. It’s the difference in why they couldn’t get the job done, vs what they got the job done in spite of.
  I think at the very least every mans benchmark for breeding working animals of any sort, and certainly dogs. Can it get the job done alone at a high clip? If it needs help, or mitigated circumstances and variables to be successful, it ain’t the kind of animal i want a kennel full of, so why would I breed it?
 It’s a way too high percentage of people in my opinion breeding dogs that have no idea what they’re actually feeding/breeding because they’ve never taken a single dog on their yard solo and really watched and paid attention to what the dog does and is.


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I agree with slim9797 on his thoughts of people not actually taking the time to really assess their dogs solo before breeding them


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[t-dog]

NOBODY raises a 100% top notch dogs or performance animals. We all know you can breed a super star to a super star and get culls. There are a ton of variables that have to line up in order it to be successful and we have to do our part to increase the odds. I also realize that I probably take this way more seriously than the average Joe. That’s my nature. I only know one way to play a game and that’s to try and dominate. I want my dogs to be the best they can be so that they beat Mr Hog consistently more than he beats them. This means I have to meet my obligations to my dogs in care, rides to the woods, and knowing what my objectives are as well as understanding the ins and outs of genetics (for the most part). I’m not a dr or scientist, but I do read and study. I’ve always taught my kids that if you pay attention to anyone or anything that is great at something, you will find out that that individual likely has a passion for whatever it is they are great at. They pour everything they can into it because they want to and get pleasure from it. It’s no different with these dogs. A dog that lives to hunt, find, bay, and catch hogs will be a better hog dog than most that have way more tools but less desire. A doctor that is passionate about healing and helping people will do way more good than the one that just wants guess and Guinea pig you so they can hurry up and get your dolllar. When you start breeding dogs that want to back to like minded dogs you start getting purpose bred animals. When that gene pool
is tight and your being selective, it speeds the process up. My two cents!


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[williamsld]

Good solid dogs to good solid dogs from a good family, may produce a superstar. Superstars rarely produce up to their level but bred to a good solid dog may produce good solid dogs. We often pay too much attention to the strengths of individual traits rather than concentrating on a well balanced dog. By well balanced I mean good or better from truck to meat on the hook. It's tough to get there from scratch but can be done in time.

This kinda sums up my thoughts on breeding, my goal is to produce consistent dependable solid hog dogs and when the occasional 1in 1000 dog shows up line breed to it heavily (if it’s a producer no point in breeding to a super star if they don’t throw good quality pups) build around them until the next one comes along with the occasional outcross
And don’t get kennel blind if I find a cur dog (my preference

[TexasHogDogs]

I Met Bert Sorrell several times. A friend of mine knew him very very well.  He use to come to Texas to shows a lot of times.  I know several that could never beat this man including a very personal friend of mine.  Another old friend of mine that we still talk every week when he was a young man back in the late 60's and early 70's and was getting into the dogs.  He said he would go to shows and Bert would be there and betting on certain dogs and he said the man never lost a bet that he knew of.  He said he watched him several times and then he would go and sit by Bert and when Bert bet on a dog my buddy said he would bet on a dog lol.  After several times Bert finally ask him who he was and they became friends over the years lol.  Bert was very very hard on his dogs and you better damn well know what you got and what you are doing if you ever when into competition with him.  My old buddy that became such good friends with him over the years still claims and says he never saw Bert loose a bet.  Where do you think the motto came from,  The Text of a Dog is his Show/The Test of a Family is Time!  Bert Sorrells.

[t-dog]

Time is my test too and I’m not scoring very high!


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[TexasHogDogs]

Lmao lol