A bit of universal political philosophy for the evening...

[RL]

now lets come to america. do you think its fare for americans to be denide government loans for a business, but yet a a completely new immigrant can get a 7yr grant or loan to open up a business, paid by yours and my tax dollars? there are to many bleeding hearts out there that say, well they are of a poor and uneducated culture (not race), when yet there are americans who come from poor and illiterate backgrounds, some choose to be that way, and some are born into it with no hope of getting ahead, because of a viscious cycle of the wealthy keeping the little man down. the poor always getting screwed over by the rich. always have, always will. does money make them better than those that dont have money? only for education, living conditions and just plain living in its own, but as a person, are they better, do they have better values, are they honest hard workers, or just honest thieves with money and power over the poor? 

No, I do not think it is fair.  But all of us have long, long, very long lists of things the government does that we do not think is fair, right, or appropriate.  It is frustrating.

As to the poor comment.   It is simply hell to be poor and probably worse to be born to poor people.  I know.  I was.  My wife still does not understand why I think pinto beans is a complete meal.  The most critical thing that allowed me to escape that cycle of poverty was an education.  

[Reuben]

No, I do not think it is fair.  But all of us have long, long, very long lists of things the government does that we do not think is fair, right, or appropriate.  It is frustrating.

As to the poor comment.   It is simply hell to be poor and probably worse to be born to poor people.  I know.  I was.  My wife still does not understand why I think pinto beans is a complete meal.  The most critical thing that allowed me to escape that cycle of poverty was an education.  
[/quote]

been there done that...might be why I root for the underdog...

[charles]

 you are right rl as far as an education. can you honestly say that just because a piece of paper say you got an education of higher learning, that that person you or anyone else should be paid more because of a piece of paper vs. a person who has many years of hands on expeirience and then the person with the education gets paid more and is put in charge of those who been doing it many times over the person with the education?
if we as americans see all things that are wrong in the government. why is it only a hand full of people want to try to fix it, but with out financial backings and a heck of a lot more people support cant get it fixed? we ask for donations and support to save our rights as loving pet owners, but yet cant get the support or donations to fix our crooked government. there is more effort put towards animals and keeping our animal rights, than getting the political animals out of our government and getting back on the track to success, instead of the track to failure. its a trajedy that we care more for our animals than we do as a nation of people. with out proper government, no amount of fighting for animal right will achieve any positive goal for our nation as a whole.

[RL]

you are right rl as far as an education. can you honestly say that just because a piece of paper say you got an education of higher learning, that that person you or anyone else should be paid more because of a piece of paper vs. a person who has many years of hands on expeirience and then the person with the education gets paid more and is put in charge of those who been doing it many times over the person with the education?

It is simple.  Just like the post about dogs and breeding.  How do you get the most reliable info to base your decision?  With dogs, it is pedigree.  With people, it is education.

That does not mean a dog without a pedigree can't hunt or a person without a degree can't perform the job.  It means it is easier for the decision maker to make one when he has something to indicate that it will accomplish their goal.

I taught my children that an education only opens a door.  After your first job, no one asks about grades.  They ask do you have a degree.  They ask "what can you do for me".  An education opens the door but then you have to perform to remain.

Now some professions require more.  I am a CPA.  I could not even attempt to become one without a degree.  It is a minimum requirement.

if we as americans see all things that are wrong in the government. why is it only a hand full of people want to try to fix it, but with out financial backings and a heck of a lot more people support cant get it fixed?

Simple.  We solve the problems we can influence.  Not the ones we can't.  Think about it.  Do you support slavery?  No.  But slavery occurs throughout the world.  I can't solve it.  You can't solve it.  So we both focus on more local things we can solve.  Like parenting our children.  Leading our communities.  The same goes for the federal government.  We all know that no matter who we elect, it is just more of the same.  We can't change them, so we focus on our local communities.

[RL]

Charles.  One other point about education.  My son wanted to enter the military right out of HS.  I explained to him that the lowest officer starts at a higher rank than the highest enlisted.  This is not to belittle or downplay the contributions of the enlisted.  It is just what it is.  The recruiter explained to him that before the government spent a million dollars teaching him to fly a helicopter, they wanted to have some indication that he had the mental aptitude and that he finished what he started.

So he went to college, then joined the military and today is a helicopter pilot.

[cajunl]

So he went to college, then joined the military and today is a helicopter pilot.

Good for him, Air force?

[RyanTBH]

Charles.  One other point about education.  My son wanted to enter the military right out of HS.  I explained to him that the lowest officer starts at a higher rank than the highest enlisted.  This is not to belittle or downplay the contributions of the enlisted.  It is just what it is.  The recruiter explained to him that before the government spent a million dollars teaching him to fly a helicopter, they wanted to have some indication that he had the mental aptitude and that he finished what he started.

So he went to college, then joined the military and today is a helicopter pilot.

That's awesome!!! Getting to do what he loves to do for a living... make sure he knows how blessed he really is!!!

[Explorer]

China has more soldiers than the US, Russia and all of Europe combined. If they would decide to take over a country, any country, it would be pretty easy.... and yes, economically, they are the super power already!
Afganis defeated the Russian army back then when Russia was still the Soviet Union, and therefore huge and powerful. That should give us a good clue that they will not be defeated by anyone.
 

[charles]

Charles.  One other point about education.  My son wanted to enter the military right out of HS.  I explained to him that the lowest officer starts at a higher rank than the highest enlisted.  This is not to belittle or downplay the contributions of the enlisted.  It is just what it is.  The recruiter explained to him that before the government spent a million dollars teaching him to fly a helicopter, they wanted to have some indication that he had the mental aptitude and that he finished what he started.

So he went to college, then joined the military and today is a helicopter pilot.

tell him thank you for his service and to keep the rotor blades turnin.
you are right to guide him to college first. if my dad had not have invested my college money into land, i woulda done the same.
they are not making anymore land, so i see it as an investment.

now as far as changing who we put in power. YES we can change it. we simply dont vote for those running. without a vote, the government cant just put into power who they want, unless that has been changed in our constitution, which i wouldnt put it past them to vote their self in. according to our constitution and decleration, the government get thier power from the governed. if we dont give them the power them we put the ball into our hands. it will never happen, but it with our rights, if we gave a crap about our rights. this our country, not the governments. if we dont take a stand, there will be nothing left.
rl you and noah seem to be great political debaters. i applaud the both of yaw for your insight and input.

[waylon-N.E. OK]

" Afganis defeated the Russian army back then when Russia was still the Soviet Union, and therefore huge and powerful. That should give us a good clue that they will not be defeated by anyone. "

Just for the factual record the Afgans were having there a$$e$ handed to them by the Russians, a " Texas " sen. or congressman can't remember his office named Charlie Wilson came into the mix, then uncle sam funded, armed and fueled the afgan's and THEN they began to win, on there own they were being crushed by the Russians. We really didn't care about the afgan people, it was pay back for the Russian's funding the north vietcong back in the day. There beatable and if our military was unleashed with out restraint you would soon see that.

 
RL- Exactly how do Native Americans or native indians as you called them smell exactly? I'd love to hear  Sage? Cedar oil? Corn?

[CentralTex 254]

We have never really seen the full force of a super power country. It would devestate the world to a point of no return. I could see three things that would happen.
1. The country that invaded would be the supreme .
2. It would start a whole new arms race.
3. We would decide to cut back ever bodies military and weopons depots.

I would hate for this to happen but one day it possibly could.
Let me know what y'all think

[charles]

We have never really seen the full force of a super power country. It would devestate the world to a point of no return. I could see three things that would happen.
1. The country that invaded would be the supreme .
2. It would start a whole new arms race.
3. We would decide to cut back ever bodies military and weopons depots.

I would hate for this to happen but one day it possibly could.
Let me know what y'all think

if that was the case, the chinese will be on top. with man power they have, it would take long to march on top of country, at least a neighboring country. i highly dought they could get across the pacific with loosing a lot of troop transport ship or even by air due to our fighter jets, tomahawk cruise missles, ship mounted patriot type ground to air missles and so on. the only way to get in by air would be to come from the north pole and make sure their planes are squaking on a civilian airliner freg. to mask them.
it would be vertually impossible for any country to build a strong enough force to walk in and take a big country over. it would take multiple nations to mass on 1 country at a time and continue to keep advancing. just dont out run your supply lines like the krauts did when they invaded russia

[CentralTex 254]

I was thinking more nuclear really. Those are some nasty nasty things. I don't think they would ever reach us airborn. They would have to already be on the ground under the radar. But hell I guess I watched to much tv as a kid lol