Throwed me a Curve Bawl...

[Reuben]

back around 1990 when I went forward with my new breeding plan I was surprised when a chocolate pup popped up in a litter of mt cur pups...I gave her to a friend and he lost her in a long race when she was about 9 months old...about 15 years later another chocolate pup pops up and I was even more surprisedbecause it had been 6 or 7 litters in between...this was from line breeding and inbreeding best to the best...I kept her because she acted and looked right...but in the corn fields on the hard and dry gumbo dirt her feet wouldn't hold up...she would get bloody pads...so I found her a good home...

I thought that that was something that couldn't happen...but it did...all my dogs back then were "Texas Smoke" and "Kemmer" bred mt cur with a one time cross of brindle bmc at the very beginning...I never bred for color except I didn't like any white on my dogs except a little on there toes or chest...

I also had another pup towards the beginning that was totally a platinum colored dog...I used him for lots of breedings but he never ever threw one colored like him...a freak of nature...his sire was one I called a "once in a lifetime dog"...

I brought this up because I was reading a kemmer mt cur column in the Full Cry magazine for this month that a friend of mine writes monthly...
He was saying that 2 different long time breeders of the kemmer dogs had chocolate pups pop up from out of nowhere...kemmers usually throw all yellow pups but when crossed with other mt curs from other registries they throw brindles and black dogs with brindle trim...

Well they did a DNA test on all these chocolate pups and they were pure bred and matched up with the registration papers...

[halfbreed]

   and , that's it ?  come on    lol

[hoghunter71409]

That is good for you.  I'd like to see one if you get a chance to post a pic. 

[Corey]

It is obviously a recessive, suspected from dogs a number of generations back that were not chocolate themselves.  The real curve ball is how do recessive genes are not just color orientated....they can be recessive hunting qualities.  You could breed best to best for numerous generations and still end up with POS crop out, or  breed POS to POS for numerous generations and end up with the once in a lifetime type dog...not likely to reproduces his likeness in his offspring.  Interesting......


Some of them chocolate Kemmer dogs are goooood lookin though!

[Da Butcher]

I had the same thing happen, but it was outta the Parker line...  Most Parkers will be blk or brindle, but my 1st breeding from pups I raised produced 3 yella/red pups outta 9. At the time I did not own any yella dogs, nor was my gyp around any to my knowledge but due to this being such a rare occurrence I went ahead and had 2 of the 3 yella pups DNA tested and they came back pure Parkers. Then the 2nd litter had 3 yellas outta 7 pups. Maybe its the Mt Curr coming out in the Parker line???  Surprising to say the least!!!

[Reuben]

just wanted to share what happened there Halfbreed...but also wanted to get folks to talking about my favorite subject... 

one thing I know about recessive genes...one is passed from the dam and one is passed from the sire to get the recessive color...so when the pup comes out as a recessive color then he has to be a carrier of said color...so when he gets bred to another dog of the same color the pups all have to be of the same color as mom and pop...another thing I have read is that sometimes we call it a certain color but in reality it is another color so we make the mistake and we get off colored pups (surprise  )...

another big one is that sometimes a basket of genes is considered a gene...and that basket may vary in genetic make up...I believe the merle gene like in catahoulas is one of these and that is why we have different variations of colors and patterns in the catahoula...I also believe that the hunting traits belong in this catagory...basket of genes because there are so much variation in hunting styles...but I have not read that anywhere just a personal theory of mine...

there is another genetic story I read in the past and I developed the hunting basket gene theory because if it...read below...

I read about a breed of dogs that over a few generations their long hair gets longer and longer...so they breed to a shorter haired dog to get back to what the standard calls for...

So after thinking about it for a while I came to my other theory/belief that hunting traits are a basket of genes passed on as one gene the same way that the long hair gene works... that statement got me to thinking and that is how I developed the basket of hunting traits gene (that acts as one) theory on the hunting traits...

The reason why I believe is because as I bred my dogs over the years I saw more gritt and more hunt to the point that some pups didn't make it to 1.5 years because of heat exhaustion from no quit and some not having the since to back up on a bad boar...because I bred for those 2 traits among others...

but there are lots of things I don't know about genetics...for instance...if a gene for color is recessive and another color is considered a recessive but is dominant over the other recessive is that color gene called a dominant recessive or is it called a dominant color gene when these 2 dogs are bred together???

it is good to have personal theories but that doesn't necessarily make them right...   

[KevinN]

 
 
 

Holy crap my head just exploded

Haha!!!

I usually love talking genes but I've been building a pen this morning and I'm tired! Maybe ill be able to ficus later....lol.

[jon]

Reuben, I hope to know and learn half of what u know!

[Fixitlouie]

im so glad someone is seeing the light. there is at generations of genetics being involved on a breeding. then you can breed for 10 years and still not breed out or in certain things. so when someone posts I have a quarter of this dog and a half of this dog in another quarter of this dog.. what quarter are you getting do you know if your getting the good quarter the bad quarter. and then people talk about culling if pups dont look,act,smell a certain way when actually there pups maybe jam up dogs.. urgh. too much info for some people to process..

from me.....who else. tapatalk

[jon]

So what if u took a loose baying open on hot track (only yards/feet from the hog) brindle mt cur and bred her to a silent gritty brindle plott hound  what kinda pups would y'all be expecting outta that

[Fixitlouie]

they would be a loose, gritty,long,short,catchy,bay all day,hog dog.....maby:

from me.....who else. tapatalk

[KevinN]

So what if u took a loose baying open on hot track (only yards/feet from the hog) brindle mt cur and bred her to a silent gritty brindle plott hound  what kinda pups would y'all be expecting outta that

Probably mostly brindle pups...maybe some black pups (Plott side).

But the hunting style could vary...some pups may open on track you describe...some may not...some could be loose...some gritty.

Some could be a mix of the two.

[Peachcreek]

I am kinda surprised a dna registry would be able to tell what a full bred parker is.. I thought they were a mixture of all sorts?

[halfbreed]

  I hope he meant that the suspected parents were dna'd to prove the pups were out of the two parker dogs

[Reuben]

I had the same thing happen, but it was outta the Parker line...  Most Parkers will be blk or brindle, but my 1st breeding from pups I raised produced 3 yella/red pups outta 9. At the time I did not own any yella dogs, nor was my gyp around any to my knowledge but due to this being such a rare occurrence I went ahead and had 2 of the 3 yella pups DNA tested and they came back pure Parkers. Then the 2nd litter had 3 yellas outta 7 pups. Maybe its the Mt Curr coming out in the Parker line???  Surprising to say the least!!!

if the parker parents are black and we know that the color black is dominant over red, so this means that both parents carry one dominant gene for black and one recessive for red...so the litter turned out 66 percent black and 33 percent red...if one parent carried double black genes or even both parents, then all the pups would have been born black...that one is pretty easy...this also means that either black dog can be bred to a red dog and there would be about 1/2 the litter red because in this breeding it has been proven that both parents are carriers of the red gene...

[Reuben]

and the red pups are pure for the red genes because they carry two red genes, one from the dam and one from the sire...

[BA-IV]

  I hope he meant that the suspected parents were dna'd to prove the pups were out of the two parker dogs

He sent DNA off the puppies and the two parents and it came back positive that those pups were in fact from those two dogs. So since those two dogs were full Parkers, the puppies were to is all he was meaning.

I had the same thing outta the same line except three pups came out black and tan. Larrys Blackie dog had a littermate sister that was black and tan. It's a long ways back in the ped but it sure popped up big time in my litter.

[Da Butcher]

Sorry for the confusion guys...  Ben is correct, I sent off DNA swabs for both parents and 2 of the 3 yella/red pups, and was able to verify that the pups did come from my Parkers..