Genetics or training

[BigCutters4]

I know this has probably been discussed on numerous occasions .we had a lil debate on this matter this morn at the fire station .do y'all think range-hunt is bred in a dog or can be trained in ? I say long range dogs produce long range and short range produce short range .I think you can't take a family of line bred short range dogs and train them to be long range dogs .what are y'all OPINION on this matter please no arguing we all have our own opinions ! Thanks ,Mark

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[Mike]

Genetics all the way... you can't train what isn't there.

[KevinN]

I don't think you can train them to "hunt" at a farther range than is genetically predisposed. I do think they may " run" with a longer range dog if hunted with one......but put that dog back by himself or with other short range dogs and they will turn right back into short range dogs.

I also think that a genetically bred long range dog can be  "drawn back" at TIMES by short range dogs....especially at a young age.

[Cajun]

Thank u Mike. I agree all the way. Also agree with u Kevin. There are exceptions to the rule but like said, You cannot put what is not there.

[Judge peel]

I Agee on both if genetics where 100 % then we would never have to cull but this is not the case dog will flip and flop just like people I was good at sports two of my kids are and two are  is that genetic or love for the sport ? And I understand that as a group of geneticly better dogs will get you closer to your objective  but it can't out do the individual drive in the dog that just shows up in all mammals. Just my thoughts

[justincorbell]

I know this has probably been discussed on numerous occasions .we had a lil debate on this matter this morn at the fire station .do y'all think range-hunt is bred in a dog or can be trained in ? I say long range dogs produce long range and short range produce short range .I think you can't take a family of line bred short range dogs and train them to be long range dogs .what are y'all OPINION on this matter please no arguing we all have our own opinions ! Thanks ,Mark

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I would have to agree with you for the most part, HOWEVER I do believe that if you were to take a pup out of a line of short ranged dogs and raise it up in a yard full of longer ranged dogs and played your cards right you could pull more range out of that pup, not so much by "training" it per say (i can't come up with any training scenarios in my head that would extend the range of a dog honestly) but more so by conditioning it with your dogs and raising it along side longer ranged pups so that it bonds with them from an early age and is more inclined to stay with them in the woods. you may get lucky and have a shorter ranged pup extend his range that way, I don't know if its right or wrong BUT if I were going to attempt it thats how I would go about it.


Another thing that I believe is imperitive to your success/failure when diving into something like this is that I think you should seriously look into the backgrounds of the parents to the shorter ranged pup, especially if the original breeders have been striving for shorter ranged dogs over generations............ I'll use a scenario I came upon a year or so ago to help better explain my ramblings....

Mr. Bennett, an active member of this site, got to be huntin buddies with a friend of mine named Josh while he was living up that way. Josh told me about Mr. Bennetts super rough yella dogs and got my attention due to the fact that I like a dog on the rougher side of the line. After talking to Josh and then Mr. Bennet I decided that while his currs were great at what they do they just wouldn't work for me, Josh and Mr. Bennett both told me that these dogs were pretty much all bite no bark and short ranged........... I was looking to add one to my pack and eventually over time if the dog worked out breed it into the dogs I keep........ Well the more I thought about it the easier it was to decide against tryin to get one, My dogs on average range 4-800yds but will leave out given the chance and will usually catch a smaller hog solo but they know when to back up, I would have been asking for a slaughter on the first bad hog we came across had I bought and raised one of his pups with mine and succeeded in extending that dogs range.

Just something to think about before you go trying to change things like range in a line of dogs that has been established over the years as a short ranged or long ranged dog..........odd's are there are reasons that those dogs are either long or short ranged and before you jump into a new one you need to be fully aware of those reasons.

I know I said "you" in there quite a few times, I don't mean you in particular, I mean anyone looking into trying these type things.

[Bryant]

Almost all genetic, however conditioning can influence.  It's quite easy (many even do so unknowingly) to condition a dog bred with a big motor to be more of a short range hunter.  The flip side to that is it is extremely difficult (if not impossible) to condition a shorter dog to go deep.  A deep hunting (without being on track) dog is typically a very independant dog....one who hunts for himself probably more than the handler and therefore can be a bit stubborn. 

 

[BA-IV]

The more I raise dogs and hunt, the more I want a dog that is a natural, and the raw natural talent comes from good genetics.  I like dogs that need very little direction and a ride to the wood to put you in front of pork.

[reatj81]

Another factor to consider is a dogs physical ability. A thick muscle bound dog cannot travel as fluid as a streamline dog. 


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[cantexduck]

Genetics and exposure.

[hoghunter71409]

Im going to go against the grain on this based my own exposure.  I have a 9 year old Catahoula from baypen stock (Camp-A-While Catahoulas).  I know you are thinking short range.  For the 9 years that I have had her, I have has a plot or plots (that were long range).  Hunting with plots and repeated exposure to the woods has extended the range of my cat.  She is not going to go out 800 yds everytime but she will most of the time.

If she was not hunted with plots or any other long range dogs, she would be close range based on her genetic background.  This one example disproves the genetic only theory.  Ive also seen and had plot dogs that would not hunt at all and had no range.  These cull plots had the genetic background and exposure.

So, I don't think any one point of view is right and as soon as you believe things can only be one way, you will see something that disproves your thoughts.

[jwdeltx]

You change the orientation of a young dog by the dogs you train and or run them with . I will not turn out a sticky pup with a close range older dog ,they pick up bad habits fast . I also try to buddy up my younger dogs with good mentors . Just remember duds or diamonds !!!!!! HUNT'UM UP !!

[Reuben]

71409...just like having two yellow dogs and you breed them and 7 pups are yellow and one is brindle...same goes with hunting traits...might have a long line of hunting dogs and 1 or 2 pups won't have any hunt whatsoever...it just so happens that the genes didn't line up right so it is genetics...

when I have a choice I look for natural ability in young pups because that is genetics at work...dogs that are born to be good hunters don't need to be fed tracks 2 or 3 times a week to look good out in the field...of course being in shape and hunting at least once a week is icing on the cake...

[jwdeltx]

About six years ago I raised a litter of pups that I put my all into , took them into the woods every day , started them on pigs at three months . Still wound up with only one pup that shined all the time ,named him TIGER ,at three months would try to kill a pig his size by himself . This pup would hit the woods hunting with or without the other pups at six months old. SAD PART is I lost him to parvo at seven months even after three rounds of shots . Most of the other six pups turned out ok but none with his drive. Took we awhile to even bother with breeding any more . Have raised and started two or three litters since , still looking for that drive !!!!

[dodgegirl]

I've gotten redbones from the same guy for the longest time. Bred for hogs, they had no interest to tree anything. Last year I got a redbone out of champion bear & coon dogs. Now I know nothing about coon hunting so I didn't teach her a thing but boy this gyp of mine will run with the some damn good coon dogs. Id say genetics has a lot to do with it!

[Reuben]

About six years ago I raised a litter of pups that I put my all into , took them into the woods every day , started them on pigs at three months . Still wound up with only one pup that shined all the time ,named him TIGER ,at three months would try to kill a pig his size by himself . This pup would hit the woods hunting with or without the other pups at six months old. SAD PART is I lost him to parvo at seven months even after three rounds of shots . Most of the other six pups turned out ok but none with his drive. Took we awhile to even bother with breeding any more . Have raised and started two or three litters since , still looking for that drive !!!!

when you look for that awesome pup within a good line of dogs and focus on breeding these pups then that line of dogs will eventually produce  better hunting dogs...the cream rises to the top...select for natural ability....

[kerreydw]

I aggree that its from genetics but there are exceptions,for example you mite breed two short range dogs that are from short range family's there could be something way back in there bloodline that comes out when you breed them. Most will probly be how you breed but there could be a couple long range get out of own dogs.