Culling (strike dogs)

[sandbank slayer]

So me and Brent on alittle road trip, question is how do you cull from a litter on your yard. Ex: you've bred best to best, litter of 8 healthy pups are born. @8 months 4 are leaving out with good dogs and baying good, 2 skittish ones are coming along behind them, 2 ain't doin to much. How much time are you putting into the ones that are lagging behind, when you know they are all out of good dogs? A hand all opinions are welcome everyone has there own way, right or wrong if it works for you let's hear it

[Reuben]

A good rule of thumb for me...select for natural ability...or to put it another way...select pups with the natural inclination to hunt, wind,  trail and bay...the earlier the better...especially if your are wanting to breed better dogs...if it takes feeding tracks for 2 years before the pup starts to hunt you can expect the same from the offspring...that will become the average litter...select for a higher average...

[GRITTY CUR LOVER]

I ask myself this same question every time I have a litter. lol The truth is I think you should wait as long as possible. I recently posted a thread about the same thing. At 10 months the dog was not up to my expectations, stayed with him and about a month after the post he found and caught his first. (120 pound boar) He is in the woods at least 4 times a week and is producing pork on a regular basis. My point is once you cull you cant go back so make sure you have given them as much opportunity as possible.  I have always been told by the old men in my family to cull a dog for what he did not for what he isn't doing. Meaning if a dog hunts a way that doesn't work for you or maybe they have dog aggression then cull him for what he has done, don't cull him because of something he hasn't done yet. That's just what i have always been told.Good luck!

[Goose87]

Here's what works for me and it's only my opinion. Folks push pups way to hard way to early mainly bc ole so and so said his pups were doing it at that age when in all reality he was blowing smoke up your rear. Like rueben said it makes your and the dogs job much easier if you select for that natural working ability. I don't take mine to the woods until they are at least 10 months old, by then my pups know what a hog is, I'll send them to a few bays or throw them in the race on a crossing, once I've seen that they have the natural ability and want to I'll hold them at the house until about 12 or 13 months, by then I've culled through them and what's left are the ones that have showed me something, by doing this the pups are mentally and physically mature to keep up in a race and not get discouraged when they fall out or get left behind. I have found that by holding them and letting them grow into their bodies and mind sets, people forget that to be a dog it has to be a puppy first and get aggravated and push push push and the majority of the time are let down. By the time it's 18 months old if I can't reach in the box and pull that dog out and cast it to go find a hog then it's time for it to go.

[Shotgun66]

The 4 that are leavin and workin stay. The 2 skittish pups are gone yesterday. I would leave 1 of the 4 workers at home each trip and give the 2 that ain't doin much a maximum of 10 opportunities each. The 2 laggers have no room for any serious flaws( aggression, water fear, box barking, etc) You will know if they are worth carrying to the woods by then. If a dog can/will serve some productive purpose, it should be placed in an environment that allows it to do so. If the dog serves no purpose, it should be humanely euthanized.

[Shotgun wg]

My take is compare a pup to the day before not the other pup not a pup from last year. I look for progression. As long as it's progressing I will keep it. Out of a litter I know I can't feed them all. I make the first round pick and narrow it down to 4. I pick them by the way they act in the yard. I look for confidence. I look for the ones trying to use their nose. I look for the ones that will check out new areas first. I go with my gut based on overall observation. I think the more u are trying to watch the harder it is to see what your looking for. Make the first choice and just know u may or may not have made the right one. If u place those pups with friends u will know in a short time.


Shotgun
Arkansas

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

The most UNDER utilized tool in a dogman's breeding program.  Culling!

Do it and do it often!

Why do you have a question about Questionable pups?    It breeds second guessing, favoritism,  kennel blindness, and ultimately settlement of an undesirable product. 

I have witnessed hundreds of mediocre to poor ability dogs come from yards where questionable pups were given....just a little bit longer....or just one more chance.

Never witnessed a single one come from a dogmans yard that did not tolerate a questionable pup. Because they simply do bot allow that cancer to spred.     They work.......or they do not.

Never beg a working dog to do its job! You will end up with pets!

[Reuben]

Actions speak louder than words...always pay attention to what the pups are doing, not doing, and it is just as important to see how they are reacting to different situations...be observant even of the small details because they matter in the selection process as well...for me that is the fun part...

Back when I had 4 to 6 males that were hunting dogs and all were almost the same in ability...I still used the same type of system when selecting which dog was going to sire the pups...I know you only asked about these pups...but if you are going to breed dogs in the future off of these pups then you will need to start building a strong foundation...

Look ahead and premap the family tree...if you analyze correctly the cream will rise to the top...it is best to start out with at least good dogs in the pedigree...

[hoghunter71409]

I agree with most everything that was said above, especially Ruben (first post).  I'll add a little of my own thought.  When you look at a young dog (say 10-14 months) and you know they are not going to make it than it  time to pull the plug and move on.  On the other hand, if there is a trait in the same dog that is 10-14 months that you just don't like, I may give more time depending on the trait.

If the trait is terrible confirmation or bad feet, I would not keep the dog.  If the trait is not ruff enough, or not enough nose, I would look at keeping the dog a little longer; here s why I say that.

For the last 10 years of so I have I have had some good young pups that met most of my likes but there was something that I didn't like.  Many of those dogs went to friends of mine that had more patience than me and a lot of them turned out to be great dogs because someone gave them more time.

Look at the reasons for culling and I think the time extension should be based on the reason.  I cant stand a skittish dog, in you situation, those two would be the first to go.  The others that don't show much of a interest, I may give a little more time.

Remember, not every dog is going to be a Grade A # 1 strike dog, I believe many Grade B # 2 strike dogs are good for the pack; they should not be selected to when it comes time to reproduce.  My thoughts on culling!

[sandbank slayer]

Great responses everyone, just so we know this was only an example. It was a question we were talking about on our way to Arkansas. It seemed like a good topic to post, obviously everyone has a little different way of doing things. This post just goes to show there is more than one way to skin a cat. What works for some may not work for others.

[oconee]

One thing about culling a dog, he/she will never make your decision look bad.   If you make up you mind then its the right decision.   

[tmatt]

I have to agree with Yellowblackmask... Too many undesirable traits are continuously passed on because of failure to cull. Cull the questionable pups and keep the ones that are showing the traits that you are looking for.

[Judge peel]

Or don't breed 6 litters a yr only breed the ones you you grab when the money's on the line and you won't have so many to cull

[jagdtank]

if you don't like the dog It will never work for you period. every really good track dog I have ever seen had a little bit of extra fire or something even as a pup, They were different. a gut feeling unadulterated by second guessing is really suppressed experience that is trying to make its way to your conscious thought process.Blood tracks to me are the first phase. Early as possible. the ones who take it immediately have an genetic desire to use their nose independently . everything else can be developed by handling (for the most part) the desire to run a track has to be 100 0/0 there at birth. So thats what I look for. if its there then I know the dog wil do something. hasn't been wrong yet.

[Reuben]

if you don't like the dog It will never work for you period. every really good track dog I have ever seen had a little bit of extra fire or something even as a pup, They were different. a gut feeling unadulterated by second guessing is really suppressed experience that is trying to make its way to your conscious thought process.Blood tracks to me are the first phase. Early as possible. the ones who take it immediately have an genetic desire to use their nose independently . everything else can be developed by handling (for the most part) the desire to run a track has to be 100 0/0 there at birth. So thats what I look for. if its there then I know the dog wil do something. hasn't been wrong yet.

95 folks out of a hundred will tell you to close your eyes and pick a pup... 

[Bryant]

Sometimes the late blooming dogs make good ones.  Having said that, Me personally, I'm pretty impatient and don't let a pup off my litters hang around very long that's not keeping my attention.  I'm always evaluating based on future generations.  Late bloomers begat late bloomers.  I'm always looking for the fast starting, natural ability, born to hunt pups that only need a ride to the woods.