best time to start a bay dog in woods???

[liefalwepon]

so the rougher dogs Ive been raising, Ive waited til theyre about a year old to take to the woods, for teeth set and so theyre not goofing off. Ive also been doing that with the bay dogs and it seems like sometimes they will be on fire at four or five months when I make my pics, but then i wont show them a hog again til theyre ten or twelve months and they dont have that same fire, its like theyre over thinking it and unsure, Am I doing it wrong? should I be taking these pups to the woods from the time they cut their teeth and let them sink or swim??? or at least letting them in a bay pen once a month so they dont loose that fire? Its got me second guessing my pics. understand that these pups are now just over a year old and have only seen a few hogs in the woods so far. I know theres no right or wrong way, but Id like to hear everyones opinion on this

[Slim9797]

I'm pretty sure I ruined a 4.5-5 month old pup today because I let him come to the woods. He's not chained up yet and I went to run he ranch behind the house. He followed so I took the collar off the bulldog and put it on him. Dry run, headed back to house cause garmin died and lead dog goes what I think was 3-400 and strikes off a wallow. Bayed solid. Pup goes in there and they're hammering. Send bulldog from what I was "sure" was no more than 150, he hit, bird bull pup went in to catch with him and all I heard was yelping after that. Bulldog missed and I think the pup got trampled. Pretty sure it was a good sized sow and also pretty sure I ruined a pup I was really excited about because of my stupidity. Could have got closer for bulldog, could have let them bay longer to tire hog out. Coulda shoulda woulda. Bottom line I think I ruined a dog today because I let him come to woods at too young of an age. Last weekend he came to woods. Got on a 80 lb sow and it was perfect, great!!! But can't always control how big of what you get on and today I think was too much hog.


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[Shotgun wg]

Personal preference when possible for me is 6months old in the pen. In pen 1 or 2x a month till a year old. Then to the woods. Now I haven't had access to a pen so I have 2 year old dogs never been on a pig learning the ropes in the woods.


Shotgun
Arkansas

[liefalwepon]

shotgun, thats what Im thinking, once you get the pups fired up, put them in the pen with a smaller hog once or twice a month til one year old and acting mature, then to the woods.
If theyve been firing up young Ive been not showing them a hog for six months and then taking them hunting and its like they lost their mojo

slim I bet that pup will be fine, put em on a shoat a few times and give him some confidence, I wait til they have permanent teeth til I let them try anything bigger than a shoat. Were all learning as we go, Im glad we have ETHD to bounce ideas around

[hoghunter71409]

I think the very best thing for a dog is allowing them to run loose for as long as possible; I think the more game they chase and mess with the better.  Unfortunately, we don't all live in places where that is allowable by space.

I believe the second best thing is taking pups to the woods often and early.  I start hauling mine to the woods about 6 months (as long as they are mature enough).  If they are going to chew garmin collars and act stupid, they stay at home.  I like taking them to the woods early mostly for familiarization.  I know it is not a good idea to always compare pups to other pups but, I do it often.  I've seen a lot of good pups running hard at 7-12 months old.  That is what I am shooting for.  Pups that was to get in a race or bay early.  They can be 20 feet back, I don't care.

I also think good training starts early such as, not allowing barking in the box, crossing creeks, ect.

Every pup needs to be managed a little different.  I would not turn out a pup on what I know is a rank hog that could really hurt or kill them.  I am not raising pups to be pets or house dogs.  I am raising what I believe is generation after generation of hunting dogs.  I want them in the woods where I believe they are meant to be, not left at home or on chains.

[justincorbell]

This will be a highly opinionated topic as everyone does things their own way. This is my way, not saying its right or wrong but it is how I do it and it has worked well for me.

At 4-5mths old I will take all of my pups to the woods with my jack russell to a place with ZERO hogs and just let them be puppies, I let them ride in the bed of the buggy (in a big metal crate) and experience EVERYTHING that they would on a hunt EXCEPT the hog. They run around and play and follow my jack russell just soaking it all in. The next time I bring them to the woods (5-6mths) I do the exact same thing again except this time I bring a small hog roughly their size to the woods and tie it up 40-50yds off a trail in the most open spot I can find and then bring them along with my jack russell back to the woods and drop em all roughly 100yds from the hog, my jack russell will find the hog usually in under 10 minutes and so far every time the pups have followed her lead and gone in to the woods with her, from that point on it is monkey see monkey do and they fall in with her baying. I will sit back, find a good seat and watch them bay until I can tell they are losing interest then I will catch the hog back up and round them back up and bring em to the house.

After I show them that first hog I don't mess with em much until I think they are ready to go to the woods with the big dogs, some pups i've started as early as 6mths old and some ive waited til 10mths old or older depending on the individual dogs demeanor. I have noticed that some of the dogs I mess with go through a weird stage between 8-11mths of age where they almost tend to shut down, they seem to act real insecure and cower alot and overall lack confidence. If I haven't started one in the big woods before they hit this stage I will wait until I think it has passed and they get to acting better.......... I don't have any honest assumption as to what it is that triggers that stage or why it happens but I do know that some of my pups absolutely do go through it and trying to start them and work them in the big woods is a waste of time until they grow out of it.

Perfect example, I have pups out of 2 seperate litters of related dogs that were born a week apart. I place a couple pups and culled down to a male out of one litter and a female out of the other. The male pup @ 10 mths old has already seen over a dozen hogs and knows what is gong on in the woods.........he is still a puppy and has ALOT to learn but he is out there gettin after it all the same, the female out of the other litter is not mentally mature enough yet, she is a nevous wreck from the time she gets put in the truck until she gets home. At the house the female is perfect but the woods and all the commotion of the other dogs and the buggies is just too much for her right now so I will leave her at the house for a couple more months and let her mature. This is a perfect example of how each dog matures at a different time and no 1 way is right every time, you simply have to watch and study your dogs the best you can and make the appropriate call.


No matter what we have to remember that all of this is supposed to be fun for us AND the dogs, that's why we do it. The hardest thing I had to get thru my own head was to remember that statement and not get frustrated when something didn't work out right, once I stepped back and really forced myself to realize this EVERYTHING came much easier to both me and the dogs....... Best of luck with your youngsters!

[Judge peel]

In my opinion a 4 or 5 month old pup has no business in the woods where he might bay up. I know others will say what ever but you wouldn't  let a 8 yr old play football in high school even he was good same thing to me they need to be mature enough to handle what might happen. Most dogs that take a beat down young never recover.  In my opinion that's day one stuff


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[hillbilly]

When ever you think they a mature mentally and physically enough. Also if they got the go they could buck their ankles throw out shoulders if they are physically ready.

[justincorbell]

Good point judge, to clarify I do NOT bring my youngsters to woods that have any hogs in em, I bring em to my little deer hunting spot that the hogs have never been seen on and work em there on a small hog in a controlled environment at that age. You can absolutely ruin a young dog by bringin him too early BUT if the stars align and everything work out right you can dang sure get a pup started and fired off real good too.......... really it boils down to each individual hunter and what they prefer. Theres more than one way to skin a cat......err.........to start a pup  

[liefalwepon]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feed back, two out of four of these pups are doing exactly as they should, but the other two that were coming along well seem to have forgot the fun of messing with a hog. I think I'll try out a couple mock hunts and see how that goes


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[TheRednose]

shotgun, thats what Im thinking, once you get the pups fired up, put them in the pen with a smaller hog once or twice a month til one year old and acting mature, then to the woods.
If theyve been firing up young Ive been not showing them a hog for six months and then taking them hunting and its like they lost their mojo

slim I bet that pup will be fine, put em on a shoat a few times and give him some confidence, I wait til they have permanent teeth til I let them try anything bigger than a shoat. Were all learning as we go, Im glad we have ETHD to bounce ideas around

I think your thought process is pretty good based on what you said above. So when doing any dog training when they are young you always want short positive experiences only at least until they are a year or so. Lots of short positive experiences. Next is just a thought of my own but if they are bigger rougher dogs you might want to give them more than 12 months for their teeth to set, not only that but larger dogs usually mature slower. I would be a little more patient with really rough young dogs and you might want to wait just a bit longer than you would with a loose baying dog. Just some thoughts.

[Goose87]

I like for my pups to be around a year old before I start feeding them tracks heavy, by then they're old enough to keep up with older dogs and they know how to work a hog, now there's a lot of precursors that go into it, I don't just take them to the woods and bam they are striking hogs, I'm fortunate enough to be able to let my pups run loose, I always let mine start out baying cows on their own, once they bay cows good I'll put then in a small baypen, this is usually around 6-8 months, after that I'll put them on a chain, ill put then in the baypen once or twice a month until I'm hunting them,i'll haul them 5 or 6 times in the box when I go hunting but don't turn them loose, just getting them used to everything, if a race gets up and going and we're waiting on them to bay I'll usually take the pups out and leash them to the tailgate, just to familiarize them with everything, I have access to several small wooded pens whenever I need them, once they are doing good in there I'll start casting them with two older dogs or dumping them into hot races, with these particular dogs I have all this usually culminates around 10-14 months old and they are well on their way to be making hog dogs, if for some reason they don't cast out if they come back to me I tie them up to something so that they can't sit down or get comfortable at all and leave them for an hour or two, after a few sessions of that if they still don't cast, then I start considering if they are worth my time and effort. All of this is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

[Goose87]

I like for my pups to be around a year old before I start feeding them tracks heavy, by then they're old enough to keep up with older dogs and they know how to work a hog, now there's a lot of precursors that go into it, I don't just take them to the woods and bam they are striking hogs, I'm fortunate enough to be able to let my pups run loose, I always let mine start out baying cows on their own, once they bay cows good I'll put then in a small baypen, this is usually around 6-8 months, after that I'll put them on a chain, ill put then in the baypen once or twice a month until I'm hunting them,i'll haul them 5 or 6 times in the box when I go hunting but don't turn them loose, just getting them used to everything, if a race gets up and going and we're waiting on them to bay I'll usually take the pups out and leash them to the tailgate, just to familiarize them with everything, I have access to several small wooded pens whenever I need them, once they are doing good in there I'll start casting them with two older dogs or dumping them into hot races, with these particular dogs I have all this usually culminates around 10-14 months old and they are well on their way to be making hog dogs, if for some reason they don't cast out if they come back to me I tie them up to something so that they can't sit down or get comfortable at all and leave them for an hour or two, after a few sessions of that if they still don't cast, then I start considering if they are worth my time and effort. All of this is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

[Reuben]

for a good while now I don't get in a hurry to get them in the woods...10 months and older is fine with me...before a year we are taking chances of getting a pup hurt bad or crippled...even ruining one mentally from hunting as well...it sure is nice to have a pup take a beating and get right back up in their face...it is extra points on the resume for breeding rights...

it has been discussed on here many times on how to start pups...lots of good posts have been posted on this thread as well

If I had the time and places this is how I would do it...I can do quite a bit now but not all of what I like to do...

feed them raw hog head at 6 weeks and again once a week for three weeks...break them to gunfire

start testing for winding, finding, tracking...tracking is not as important at this age...

bay pen on shoats and pups as young as 3 months if they fire  off good...then  5 or more times and I will keep them out for a while...
at this age I like taking them to the woods where I can see who rolls out as soon as the tail gate drops...

when I was a real young man I set up staged hunts for winding/finding and rigging at 4-7 months...

I was and am more interested in selecting for natural ability first for breeding purposes...but all of the above will count as training for  the pups to be hog dogs as well...

things to watch out for...basically to not over do anything...especially too long in the pen is not good...

start the pups so they can really have confidence in the bay pen...later put a bigger hog that will teach them some respect so they won't just go in and try catching a big boar the first time they bay one...we all know what could happen...

taking them to early to the woods with the big dogs because they will fall behind and bark like crazy trying to catch up...they usually are not quick enough to dodge a boar when he charges...

I just look to see how they are coming along and don't get in a big hurry about it...

Justin...you mentioned the pups going through a shy and timid time for no known explanation or reason that we can put a finger on...I see it as a minor flaw when it is time to select for breeding...however...I make sure to pet them up and give them more attention and treats just to get them out of it...when they get close I make sure to instill confidence in them with a little extra attention...I do that off and on until they get past it..with the 4 pups I have now I had to do this with two of them...

[justincorbell]

Reuben that has pretty much been what ive done with everyone of em that has gone thru the shy stage. I pet on em a little extra daily and dont even attempt to hunt em again for a cpl months. It has worked in the past.

[liefalwepon]

justin, I wasnt aware of this shy stage, but now it makes sense. Ive noticed an independent stage from about 5 to 9 months, I like to kennel them at this time so they cant avoid being caught up. thanks for the input

Im just going to keep doing what Ive been doing but add in some bay pen time and mock hunts once a month

[justincorbell]

justin, I wasnt aware of this shy stage, but now it makes sense. Ive noticed an independent stage from about 5 to 9 months, I like to kennel them at this time so they cant avoid being caught up. thanks for the input

Im just going to keep doing what Ive been doing but add in some bay pen time and mock hunts once a month

Hell man, I don't know if it really is a true defined "stage" that all dogs go through but I do know that it seems like out of every litter I have or every group of pups I have raised there has been at least one that acts this way. As far as I know the easiest way to deal with it is pretty much to not deal with it, I simply leave the pup on a chain for a few months and try em again once they are older.