Close Hunting Dogs

[Mike]

Goose said it better than I could... exactly what he said. I’ve been tone training mine for years and it has no affect on their performance.

But yes.... there’s been lots of dogs ruined with shock collars in the wrong hands.


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[cajunl]

Some guys I know that deer hound have there dogs tone trained. They probally run 10 does for every buck they shoot and that's being conservative. They get toned off hundred of races a year. The hounds run the next track, just as hard as the first of the day!

The beeb is just the come/here command strapped to there neck nothing more or less.

[Black Streak]

A dog that will bark at a big boar only invites races which often lead beyond the property boundaries.     Shocking a persueing dog off or calling it off in one way or another is not something I want to set myself up for.   Shocking a young dog off deer or stock isn't as confusing to a dog as shocking it off the quary you have spent so much effort trying get it to focus on.        Think id rather hunt a type of dog that eliminated these type issues rather than enabled them.   

If the handler has done the ground work at home then he has no need to “shock” a dog, people get so consumed on the whole shock hysteria when in reality the actual shocking stimulation should only be used as a last ditch effort, the tone is our way of communicating with dogs at a distance beyond ear shot, no different than two fighters stopping when they hear the bell ring or a ball player stopping play when an official blows the whistle, when those athletes were in their developing stages they were taught what those sounds meant, it doesn’t discourage them from being superior athletes, no different in dogs, I’ve seen countless times with my own dogs and others as well that are tone trained and it doesn’t mess with their performance one iota, it’s when joe blow gets out there with that fire stick in his hands thinking he’s somebody and going to solve all his problems on the first hunt right out of the gate without putting in the necessary ground work is when and where the whole “shocking” hysteria takes place...



I think i should have explained my opinion differently as it pertained to the original question posed by the author instead of using the collar anology so hard.   I used it because that's where people took this thread and made the collars the correction to the problem.       I was trying to show that the collars as pertained to the original question in this thread are not the cure but rather only treat the symptom. Does the collars work to bring a dog back, yes BUT working inside this man's question and scenario, collars are only treating the symptom but it's the cure he is looking and asking for.  
      As I understand the question, the man is wanting to catch pigs within a certain size property.   He not asking how do you keep the dogs on the property but rather what works best for catching pigs within the particular property size.    My point with the collars was really as follows.   If you have to call a dog off a race because of property boundaries, you didn't catch that pig.      How could we have caught that pig and dramatically or rather almost eliminate such scenarios.    It's not the collar cause the collars aren't in charge of catching the pig.  It's the dog.   Let's examine the differences in dogs and what kind of dog would cure the problem cause it's the dog thats the cure not the collar.    Collar as described here by is needed because the cure is not addressed and as typical we treating the symptoms not the cure.   Symptoms point to the problem they are not the problem.  
    How do we find and successfully catch pigs on a small property without  enabling or promoting a race which would likely lead beyond the property line.     Should we use a dog that will bark at a pig on small properties?   What happens when a dog barks at a pig?   It's totally up to the pig.    Why leave the options up to the pig?   Why allow it to dictate anything or afford it the option to run.   Is the pressure of one barking dog ok and acceptable to the pig but the pressure of 2 or more dogs there barking and harassing the pig to great for it to stay put or is that what it takes to keep this particular pig in this particular spot to stay put.    If by chance this same pig was first made contact in a different area of the property, would it in turn run because of the pressure of a barking dog or two or 4 or would it feel as comfortable here standing its ground as it does anywhere else?    Why do pigs run? For safety and because they feel threatened.    
    So working within the question posed as I read it by the author,  why leave the options and course of events once the pig is found, up to the pig.      I understand and realize that yall guys are bay dog people and bay dogs are what your familiar with.     I understand that there is a ton of misinformation and or lack of knowledge amongst the overwhelming majority of pig doggers here in the U.S. about other types and styles of pig dogs.         As a result, so many good questions are asked because the cure to certain problems is never known or is only known to be taboo within certain circles and only the symptoms to a lot of the age old problems discussed.    
    I see a lot of people thinking outside the box more and more which is great and they realize the cure to some of these problems  but don't understand what exactly the antidote really is but to really no fault of their own.     I to was once in this same position evaluating these same problems.    The solution was not as simple as first assumed but the merrits of the solution were correct.     Just took much time and understanding as to what the actual correct antidote was.  No shortcut will cure this but only get you wrecked or worse off and here lay the problem with the majority of the ones that think outside the box and realize the right solution to many of these problems but don't understand how obtain the cure.      
      Have I said what the cure is?    Not exactly.   I don't want to put the cart before the horse because what few people are genuinely interested still will skip the understanding part and go straight for the cure.   Without the understanding and patience the level of play and talent will not be achieved only the reward bought.      
    

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[Goose87]

I don’t think anyone made the collar theory the solution, just an option for
The man to be able to contemplate using as a way to keep his dogs within certain boundaries and I can see the angle at which your approaching this without coming out and saying, “why don’t you use finder/holders”, instead in your typical style you try to cut the ones who use baydogs down and put those who use your style of dogs on a higher pedestal than the rest, rather you choose to believe me or not but I highly respect your opinions, views, and knowledge on dogs and actually have respect and admiration for your style of dogs,but they will just not be the most effective in a lot of places, maybe they will be the key to the door the original poster is trying to unlock and maybe they won’t, it’s for him to consider or try, but with all do respect there’s a place for finder holder type dogs and then there isn’t, they’re a specialized style of dogs who are suitable for only certain terrain and even though they may excell in certain areas they will not work in others, that doesn’t make them or the ones who use them any more superior than the ones who don’t, heck I even encourage the original poster to give them a try and see what he thinks...


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[make-em-squeel]

I don’t think anyone made the collar theory the solution, just an option for
The man to be able to contemplate using as a way to keep his dogs within certain boundaries and I can see the angle at which your approaching this without coming out and saying, “why don’t you use finder/holders”, instead in your typical style you try to cut the ones who use baydogs down and put those who use your style of dogs on a higher pedestal than the rest, rather you choose to believe me or not but I highly respect your opinions, views, and knowledge on dogs and actually have respect and admiration for your style of dogs,but they will just not be the most effective in a lot of places, maybe they will be the key to the door the original poster is trying to unlock and maybe they won’t, it’s for him to consider or try, but with all do respect there’s a place for finder holder type dogs and then there isn’t, they’re a specialized style of dogs who are suitable for only certain terrain and even though they may excell in certain areas they will not work in others, that doesn’t make them or the ones who use them any more superior than the ones who don’t, heck I even encourage the original poster to give them a try and see what he thinks...


I have and i like them (finder/holder), but my good bmc strike dogs will finish more tracks with a pig bayed on the end of it every time in any terrain. IMO thats when you turn your finder holder loose to them and if it breaks they will finish it, best of both worlds. Ive never had a hard finder/holder that was not a great lead in cd that worked better than a typical pit in diverse situations/runners or bay broken. I love them but my bmcs will out strike them

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[Reuben]

As the human population grows and the hunting places get smaller...at some point finder/holders and RCD type of dogs will be the best options for catching hogs...when they miss tone them back...

We all like different style of hunting dogs...I like long range stick with the track no matter what gritty dogs that don’t quit...and when the other dogs come out of the woods I can cast mine and find and Bay a Hog...opening on track now and then a plus but with the Garmin not so important to me anymore...

[Black Streak]

I don’t think anyone made the collar theory the solution, just an option for
The man to be able to contemplate using as a way to keep his dogs within certain boundaries and I can see the angle at which your approaching this without coming out and saying, “why don’t you use finder/holders”, instead in your typical style you try to cut the ones who use baydogs down and put those who use your style of dogs on a higher pedestal than the rest, rather you choose to believe me or not but I highly respect your opinions, views, and knowledge on dogs and actually have respect and admiration for your style of dogs,but they will just not be the most effective in a lot of places, maybe they will be the key to the door the original poster is trying to unlock and maybe they won’t, it’s for him to consider or try, but with all do respect there’s a place for finder holder type dogs and then there isn’t, they’re a specialized style of dogs who are suitable for only certain terrain and even though they may excell in certain areas they will not work in others, that doesn’t make them or the ones who use them any more superior than the ones who don’t, heck I even encourage the original poster to give them a try and see what he thinks...


I have and i like them (finder/holder), but my good bmc strike dogs will finish more tracks with a pig bayed on the end of it every time in any terrain. IMO thats when you turn your finder holder loose to them and if it breaks they will finish it, best of both worlds. Ive never had a hard finder/holder that was not a great lead in cd that worked better than a typical pit in diverse situations/runners or bay broken. I love them but my bmcs will out strike them


    Sir, your idea of a finder holder is in no way what a finder holder is.     You are playing the most dangerous game in pig dogging possible.  From what you just said, you have no idea what a finder holder is or how to hunt them and why.     Sorry of I'm harsh.       What your doing is deadly to the dogs for about 7 different reasons with no real added benifit. 

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