When do you call it quits?

[ModisettH]

Curious as to when y’all call it quits on a young dog. When do you say that’s enough trying? Got a 19 month old pup that’s been 20-30 times. Pup is bred super good(my dads old line/RW). He has never showed interest in a hog always been scared so I put him on the back burner to see if age would help. Hunted him not long ago and he hunted pretty decent. Other dogs bayed and he would go bark a few times then leave repeatedly. Decided to show him a shoat just to see if it would fire him up. He bayed & got him a few bites. Well I turned the shoat loose to see if he would get even more active with it. Soon as he was by himself he barked a few times and came back wanting nothing to do with it.
 I hate to give up on him since he’s literally the last of the last I have out of these dogs but dang dog feed is too expensive to feed something sorry and with as many as I feed there is another to take his place. I’m quick to get mad at one and knowing that any other young dog wouldn’t have gotten this many chances.
 So how long do y’all give one in this situation?
Pic of him. 5/8 cur dog 3/8 running walker.


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[t-dog]

Man I don’t want to hurt your feelings but I’m just gonna say it straight. I’m not one for dogs that are 2 before they decide they want to be hog dogs. This dog sounds like he’s immature and lacking confidence. This dog may be the last Mohican but if you have to make excuses for him then you’ve already lost what you had. If you lower your standards over sentimental reasons you will only have to make more excuse for more dogs in the future. Why feed something that isn’t showing when you have others that want to? Another question I would ask is is this normal for this line, the cur or the Walker side? If it’s the norm then you still
have a dilemma. I just had to cull my last pup out of my old family of catch dogs. He was actually half the old blood and half AB. It was hard because just like your situation he was the end of the line. I just couldn’t make myself accept his faults. I felt like that would’ve been a disrespect to the old family that loved so much. I also had a situation where I bred a very good producing female to double first cousin that was a really good dog. He belonged to someone else but I started him and owned two of his littermates that were really good and produced well too. I would’ve bet my bottom dollar those pups would have been hell on wheels. Surprise….they weren’t! They made hog dogs in the sense that they would find hogs but not on nearly the same level as the dogs they were out of. They weren’t family typical in any way except physical type. They were a year behind in everything they did. That male was bred about 3-4 times and every litter was the same.  So needless to say I don’t have anything that goes back to him.


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[ModisettH]

Man I don’t want to hurt your feelings but I’m just gonna say it straight. I’m not one for dogs that are 2 before they decide they want to be hog dogs. This dog sounds like he’s immature and lacking confidence. This dog may be the last Mohican but if you have to make excuses for him then you’ve already lost what you had. If you lower your standards over sentimental reasons you will only have to make more excuse for more dogs in the future. Why feed something that isn’t showing when you have others that want to? Another question I would ask is is this normal for this line, the cur or the Walker side? If it’s the norm then you still
have a dilemma. I just had to cull my last pup out of my old family of catch dogs. He was actually half the old blood and half AB. It was hard because just like your situation he was the end of the line. I just couldn’t make myself accept his faults. I felt like that would’ve been a disrespect to the old family that loved so much. I also had a situation where I bred a very good producing female to double first cousin that was a really good dog. He belonged to someone else but I started him and owned two of his littermates that were really good and produced well too. I would’ve bet my bottom dollar those pups would have been hell on wheels. Surprise….they weren’t! They made hog dogs in the sense that they would find hogs but not on nearly the same level as the dogs they were out of. They weren’t family typical in any way except physical type. They were a year behind in everything they did. That male was bred about 3-4 times and every litter was the same.  So needless to say I don’t have anything that goes back to him.


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No feelings hurt here! Definitely not going back to the line as all the ones i seen never acted anything like this. For sure on the immature part that’s why I figured age would help but was wrong. Only thing that had me puzzled was I’ve seen a lot of running walkers not bay(been through many that done it). Its tough but it is what it is. One thing about it is some make it they all don’t. Just harder to bite the bullet when he was my pick and that’s the last of em. Makes ya wanna pull just a tad bit harder for those of that kind.
 It’s usually the ones that you want to work the most that doesn’t. I will say one thing it is HARD to start pups now days with the hogs we have regardless to what they are out of. He will more then likely be gone by the weekend if it will quit raining. If only he’d bay like he hunts!


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[jsh]

I’m patient. I’ll give a dog until 2 or so considering they really don’t see their prime until 5 or 6 anyways.

My question would be what does he do when the dogs are baying hard or catch out?  Does he get excited and help, ignore them or run away scared?

Had a late starter that was similar, but I wouldn’t say he acted scared. Walk right into a bay, almost touch noses with the damn thing and just turn around a walk out like cool as can be.  Not long after the flip switched and acted like he’d been doing it his whole life.

I start all mine in the woods. Pretty sure I had one get rolled recently. No visible signs, but considering what was going on was very probable. Set her back for a few hunts and got right back in the saddle. Maybe same has happened to him without you knowing.

Not right or wrong, I see things a little different. I enjoy the challenges and feel like if a dog has the heart and the willingness to work for me I’ll do what I can to bring it out of him. Kind of like coaching I guess.

19 months is still pretty young in my book. Nice looking dog and to me the thing you have going for you is that he hunts. Hard to teach that.

[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

I wish I could help man,, but over the yrs I have seen numerous times where I have given young dogs away to folks that ended up turning into what I knew they had in em..  I personally just dont have the patience to deal with slow learners..   My son on the other hand reminds me sometimes when I want to drop the hammer on one,,, How I have made mistakes on ones in the past.. LOL..  I cant tell him that hes wrong ,,cause he aint BUT,, I personally rush judgement sometimes ..  Its all in the eye of the guy who is the dog owner,, if you can feed him than you do you ..  Wish you luck with him and I say it all the time..  If they understood english we could whisper in their ear and then they would know the plan that we have so they would listen better.. LOL>>>

[Shotgun66]

Tough spot that we all find ourselves in at some point. One of my least favorite aspects of the game. When I’ve been at this point, I ask myself a few questions to help me make my final decision.
-
Is the dog negatively affecting my hunts?

Does this dog give me headaches at home?

Is the dog making a positive contribution to my hunts?

Have I given the dog ample opportunity to earn their place?

Am I wasting resources (woods time, feed, kennel, dog box space, etc) on this dog that are costing another prospect opportunities?

Is there a role for this dog here?
-

Once they are in the “red” on 3 questions, I move on from them. I’m good to my dogs and I don’t ask a lot of them. They get quality feed, shelter, medical care, and are exercised daily. They are not abused in any way.
-
All I ask is for them to hunt with me a couple times a week for a few hours and put out some effort while doing it. I just don’t think that’s too much to ask.
-
To quote Mike Tomlin…..” I’m looking for volunteers, not hostages”. You can only do your part.
-
20 to 30 hunts is a pretty fair shake already. You will know when it’s time to move on. Only you can make that call. You will be “right” whatever you choose to do.


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[BA-IV]

I can usually tell if a dog is going to suit me within about 10-12 hunts. I don’t like lazy or slow learners at all, I’m looking for a natural easy starting dog. I’m not super hard on one, but I do require some get up and go whether it’s being trashy, being curious, going to a dog barking, or baying something around the house. I know I’ve culled a bunch through the years that would have started and made good dogs, and then I’ll keep one every once in awhile and it’ll remind me why I don’t like late starters.

Here’s my deal though, the dog might make a top dog, but he’s going to reproduce late starters or lazy starting dogs, so why keep him if you don’t plan on breeding to him, OR If you do breed to it, you have to change your whole philosophy on starting dogs, cuz more times than not, he’s gonna reproduce pups that start just like him, and you’re back to square one.

[ModisettH]

I’m patient. I’ll give a dog until 2 or so considering they really don’t see their prime until 5 or 6 anyways.

My question would be what does he do when the dogs are baying hard or catch out?  Does he get excited and help, ignore them or run away scared?

Had a late starter that was similar, but I wouldn’t say he acted scared. Walk right into a bay, almost touch noses with the damn thing and just turn around a walk out like cool as can be.  Not long after the flip switched and acted like he’d been doing it his whole life.

I start all mine in the woods. Pretty sure I had one get rolled recently. No visible signs, but considering what was going on was very probable. Set her back for a few hunts and got right back in the saddle. Maybe same has happened to him without you knowing.

Not right or wrong, I see things a little different. I enjoy the challenges and feel like if a dog has the heart and the willingness to work for me I’ll do what I can to bring it out of him. Kind of like coaching I guess.

19 months is still pretty young in my book. Nice looking dog and to me the thing you have going for you is that he hunts. Hard to teach that.

When at a bay he will run in bark a few times and come out. Then repeat.


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[ModisettH]

Tough spot that we all find ourselves in at some point. One of my least favorite aspects of the game. When I’ve been at this point, I ask myself a few questions to help me make my final decision.
-
Is the dog negatively affecting my hunts?

Does this dog give me headaches at home?

Is the dog making a positive contribution to my hunts?

Have I given the dog ample opportunity to earn their place?

Am I wasting resources (woods time, feed, kennel, dog box space, etc) on this dog that are costing another prospect opportunities?

Is there a role for this dog here?
-

Once they are in the “red” on 3 questions, I move on from them. I’m good to my dogs and I don’t ask a lot of them. They get quality feed, shelter, medical care, and are exercised daily. They are not abused in any way.
-
All I ask is for them to hunt with me a couple times a week for a few hours and put out some effort while doing it. I just don’t think that’s too much to ask.
-
To quote Mike Tomlin…..” I’m looking for volunteers, not hostages”. You can only do your part.
-
20 to 30 hunts is a pretty fair shake already. You will know when it’s time to move on. Only you can make that call. You will be “right” whatever you choose to do.


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I’m a 3 strikes your out kinda person myself. But was pulling for him just a tad bit harder then the others. I kept his sister as well just to have something that goes back to these dogs. He may just end up being a cull but something tells me he’s not that’s why I was so on the fence. The dog hasn’t had an honest chance. Our hogs are hard and so are the places we hunt. Hunting pups with my main dogs hoping they learn from them doesn’t happen much. They tend to blow off and leave em.
  When you feed 30 head it’s hard tho no matter what they are to keep putting time in one due to like you said wasting resources. To be honest this is the only dog I’ve ever hung up on like this.


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[jsh]

I think he’s just immature yet. You said it yourself - he hasn’t had an honest chance. It’s really up to you at this point. Good luck with him either way, he is a fine looking animal.

[Reuben]

If this dog was a cull and the only one left from a long line of top dogs I would breed it and move it on to a pet home and take my chances on what’s in the dog, and hope some of the pups will perform like their ancestors…

Normally at 4 or 5 months I will see something I like…at 10 months I need to see progression…at a year if its not on the curve it will be gone…

In my minds eye  a pup must be on a learning curve and if it’s not on it I will be concerned…

[ModisettH]

I think he’s just immature yet. You said it yourself - he hasn’t had an honest chance. It’s really up to you at this point. Good luck with him either way, he is a fine looking animal.

An honest chance around here is hoping you get in some hogs that don’t run for hours lol. I guess now that deer season is over he will get hauled a couple more times. Then it’s on to the next one.


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[make-em-squeel]

If I were you id see if he doesnt turn on for you this winter, and id say by spring time id cull if he doesnt turn out

[NLAhunter]

I feel about same way what Ben said I like natural starting dogs I am not a dog trainer I will raise them from a puppy feed em and take care of em until it's time to go to woods then I am just a there ride there I like to show some interest and be doing little something at about 9 months old and by year they better be coming on pretty good as long as I have been hauling em I feel same way I don't want to breed a late starter because I don't want more late starters and different lines of dogs are different start different this and that it's all up to who owns it I have seen dog out of line that you couldn't figure out why the guy was still feeding him then at 18 months or so they start up and end up nice but I would have never know how nice they would have been because I would have never feed one that long not doing nothing it's just up to who feeding them as to what you are willing to deal with and how long you give one

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[t-dog]

I don’t like waiting for a dog to turn 2 to decide if they want to be a hog dog or not. MOST of my experiences have turned out that even if they decided to be a hog dog it wasn’t on the level that I want or expect. There are exceptions though and I have seen it happen. The thing you said that makes me think you should keep trying is that your gut says he isn’t a cull. The ole gut usually doesn’t lie.


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[ModisettH]

I don’t like waiting for a dog to turn 2 to decide if they want to be a hog dog or not. MOST of my experiences have turned out that even if they decided to be a hog dog it wasn’t on the level that I want or expect. There are exceptions though and I have seen it happen. The thing you said that makes me think you should keep trying is that your gut says he isn’t a cull. The ole gut usually doesn’t lie.


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Man the ole guts been the problem this whole time lol. But I think I may have worked something out with the guy that owns his belly mate. He’s got a lot of hogs to put him in so that may be just what he needs and really loves the brother to him. We shall see what happens.


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[t-dog]

Heck yeah! Glad you figured out something. Either way you should have peace at mind knowing he got a fair shake.


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