lettmroll

[t-dog]

I was reading your puppy advertisement. I would love to hear about these dogs. I love to hear and see what other people have done and are doing. How they started and what they started with. Tell us how they work and what makes them up, what color they are and how they’re built.


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[NLAhunter]

Heck yea tell us about em sounds like my kinda dogs what area they come from

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[NLAhunter]

Heck yea tell us about em sounds like my kinda dogs what area they come from

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[l.h.cracker]

Yep that description pretty much sums up my idea of what one should be.

[lettmroll]

Sorry just seen this, I'll get on here soon as I can and give the run down.

[lettmroll]

Where I was raised we had open range there were about 4 family's that had a good size heard of cows and about 2 family's with both cows and hogs. Mine was one with both, all these family's had good stock cur dogs and over the years they got bred over each other so they were really all kin. Now they were hard headed and you had to put it on them to get there attention, so 22 years ago my uncle got a tri colored Australian Shepard gyp named Becky. He used her on cows and in hogs when he came hunting with us. She was easy handled and listened good from the start, do after a while my daddy crossed our old make Sam over her. He kept the shorter haired pups and got rid of the longer haired. It took a little off the roughness out but made them handle and listen a lot better at a younger age. My grandpa was good it took some of the roughness out because he wouldn't put up with a dog killing a pig or a old sow. From there on we just kept breeding back in to the family dogs, never went back to anything else. Now even until today they have a thick coat of hair, which the people that hunt with me swear it helps them handle these briar patches better, they are medium build around 50 pounds every now and then you will get one that's pretty leggy and around 70 pound. Just about every litter is going to have a solid black puppy or two and a couple black with brindle trim. Then a brown leopard and a blue leopard, sometimes a cream colored or a red with a white ring neck. At 6 months to a year old you can just turn them loose with your other dogs and they are going to go, bay and natural roll over. Their ground speed hunting is 4/5 and on a running hog 9/11 depending on terrain. The males hit a running hard good the females will but not like I like. They hunt hard and long and have a good nose if they are not to fresh you can put them on a cold track. There are all day plus some dogs. Medium bay, but when you get to the Bay your can get them to catch if you want but I don't do that unless it's a young boar. I mainly just use my catch dog. Now going back when I was young we use to have several in a litter with a good bit of white but Grandpa or nobody ever kept one he always done away with them, I never asked why but now I would have to say he was keeping from breeding hearing or seeing problem back into the blood. One more thing that a lot of people may not care about but I like a lot is after being out up all deer season the first day of hunting (unless you keep them on the ground) they are going to run their pads off but after that it don't matter if you go a month without hunting and then you go and they put 40 miles in that day they might pull some toe nails but want run their pads off. Oh and if you don't get a red or cream colored out of a little then you'll get a tiger striped. Now at the top I told you how you could start them but this is the way I started doing it and I can pretty much take a dog to the woods hunting for the first time and bay a hog. I've got a gentle pot belly that I can lead I take them out by him until they start being him until they lock in after that I don't let them Bay him in the pin by the house anymore. I put out feed on the other end of my field which is about 1000 yards are better, I let the potbelly out and he goes to the feed eats then for a few times I'll shut him up in a small pin there. I'll either do one or two puppies that evening I'll walk them by the pin were they have been baying him and 9 times out of ten they will trail him to the other side were I fed him and after that I give it more time between the time I let him out and the time I let the puppy out. Now I've got 3 little pins around this 15 acre pasture and one of them is behind a little briar patch that I let grow for my black berries and it's serves me good to because when I go too feeding in that pin they have to trail him through them. Longer sorry shortened in the end if I want to I'll have it were he goes by all 3 pins to eat a little and back to my main pin to eat a little more and I shut him up so they have to trail from the first little pin, by the other to back to the main. I usually only do this if I have puppies the right age and it's in the middle of deer season. And the hardest part to believe is usually 80% of the litter makes average to grade a hog dogs, I don't keep me too puppies. I know I probably forgot a lot of what I wanted to tell y'all, but I hope this answers some questions and hope y'all enjoyed reading it. Oh yeah if I had something bad to say about these dogs, is that you will usually get about two out of a little that are only cold weather dogs, they will kill themselves in the heat about 2 out of a litter want be able to handle it. But stamina isn't a problem. Also about 5 or 6 years ago I sold a man in Louisiana 2 of these dogs when they were just started and he had told me since anytime I have one to get rid of be sure to let him know first, do that's got to mean something.

[t-dog]

That was a good read. I appreciate you taking the time to share it. They sound like nice dogs. I like that they are pretty uniform except for the color of wrapper they wear. Consistency, be it physical type or working style all the way across the board to quality percentages is a big tattle tail on how good someone has done in their breeding selections. Nobody raises 100% good dogs 100% of the time, there are just to many variables in there to think it’s going to happen. If it were possible it wouldn’t be so hard to find good dogs.

I’m curious, do the dogs that don’t seem to have the heat tolerance have any differences from the ones that do? I mean anything from maybe wired a little tighter or maybe a rougher more intense working style to built different or even a certain color(s)?


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[lettmroll]

No not really and believe me I've looked at it close. If it's something to see i can't see it, a better hand than me may can, but so far no. I wish I knew somebody that was a good hand that lived were they had cool weather in the summer months that I could send one to when I got one like that, but was a super outstanding hog dog in cool weather for their benefit and mine.

[lettmroll]

Oh yeah I wanted to say thanks and also that I sent in a DNA test kit that also shows 25 top things that this bloodline of dogs are prone to getting or having. Hoping that may shed some light on the heat tolerance, and just a good thing to know. I used wisdom DNA I'm not familiar with any of them, but should have the results this week. I did it on the two oldest males that we breed to they are half brothers ( I love a uncle niece cross) and I'm curious to see if their is much difference just due to them having different mothers. They their the same kind of pups so I'm going to guess not.

[Aussie Dogger]

Oh yeah I wanted to say thanks and also that I sent in a DNA test kit that also shows 25 top things that this bloodline of dogs are prone to getting or having. Hoping that may shed some light on the heat tolerance, and just a good thing to know. I used wisdom DNA I'm not familiar with any of them, but should have the results this week. I did it on the two oldest males that we breed to they are half brothers ( I love a uncle niece cross) and I'm curious to see if their is much difference just due to them having different mothers. They their the same kind of pups so I'm going to guess not.

Hi Lettmroll, Fantastic read mate and thank you. Its wonderful to read about the efforts that guys go to when trying to fine tune their dog lines as many of these guys do. As many would know its a life time of work especially with tight lines.
Just wondering if you may have got the DNA results back and if it shed any light on the heat tolerance.

Cheers

[lettmroll]

I did get it back and I still have to do some figuring because anything less than 6% I don't think would effect them much but I am still talking with wisdom DNA to figure out some stuff on that. There are two, maybe 3 breeds that could affect the heat tolerance but only one is 6% the other two or 3%. I'm waiting as well for my buddy to get the results back on my old males half brother to see what difference there was in their mother's side of the family shouldn't be much but my make came back with 6% bulldog terrier (pit bull) which are heat intolerant. Also wisdom has told me that some of these percentages will be higher in the some puppies I raise more than others which is weird to me in a way when I'm breeding to a gyp that has 0 bull dog in her but they still said it will soooo we shall see and I will update as I know more and when the half brother gets his results back.

[lettmroll]

Update on the pups, they are 4 months old and trail good, like to wind more seems like than other litters. Like to bay anything but I believe a cat or wood rat is their favorite right now lol. One has done come back snake bit but she's ok. The ones that's not at my house I haven't heard from in a bit. Last word I got from everybody was the same. Smartest pup I've ever owned so about March or April we will see. A old buddy that lives a ways from me bought one and I consider him one of the best dog men that I've known and he tells me that it's on the money, he has a good stock off dogs that hopefully will outcross to and be able to keep all my traits plus get the heat tolerance from his stock because they have got it. I shouldn't make such a big deal about the heat thing because it's only one of two out of a litter like that but I can't help it.

[Cajun]

  Really good read.  It has been my experience that the hard driving dogs are always more prone to heat stroke . They just do not know when to quit and will run there selves until it is to late. I have several Plotts here that have overheated and believe me, they are not the same. In the winter they are fine but in the summer they will overheat pretty fast, also dogs that are in good condition are less prone to heatstroke. I wonder also if that thicker coat has anything to do with it but if it is only a couple out of a litter who knows. The problem is prevalent all over the south in the summer..

[Reuben]

  Really good read.  It has been my experience that the hard driving dogs are always more prone to heat stroke . They just do not know when to quit and will run there selves until it is to late. I have several Plotts here that have overheated and believe me, they are not the same. In the winter they are fine but in the summer they will overheat pretty fast, also dogs that are in good condition are less prone to heatstroke. I wonder also if that thicker coat has anything to do with it but if it is only a couple out of a litter who knows. The problem is prevalent all over the south in the summer..

X2…hard hunting dogs that won’t quit a track (lots of bottom) can overheat and die, usually these are the same dogs that will hunt themselves to death as well…as long as there are hogs to catch these dogs can and will hunt themselves to death unless they are caught or called in…

Cajun…I agree on the thicker coat…that is a trait I cull if at all possible…I like short slick coated dogs…it gets too hot in the South for thick coated dogs…

[t-dog]

I feel like I’ve seen a ghost, welcome back Reuben!

I don’t know if you have any idea of where the pit bull blood was introduced, but the Catahoula definitely had it introduced into them at one time. I don’t know if it’s a possibility that some of that Catahoula blood is your dogs some where but if so, that’s potentially where the marker comes from. The pits of old were heat tolerant, they had to have that good wind to be able to go as long as need be under extreme conditions. There’s an old saying in sports that fatigue makes cowards of us all. Heat is a major contributor to fatigue in the south. I think Cajun hit the nail on the head with the hard drivers. Those dogs have a win at all cost mind set. I love those kind. To me, that kind of want to is a lot like the hunt in a dog. You can dial them back or make them quit, but you can’t make them go and you can’t make them want it if it isn’t in them. I know my Ava gyp will outlast my Outlaw dog on a hunt because he will be caught while she’s baying. She will run in and grab a ham if it’s standing but outside of that she’s staying relatively fresh while he wrestles. He isn’t stupid rough but 120# and down are usually going to get caught unless they are in good cover or a boar that can convince them that he’s bigger than he looks.

I was talking with the Red Nose not long ago about his cat hounds. He has a young male (running walker) that is just a knockout to look at. The conversation led to the hair coat because he is tighter and smoother coated than most of the others. He said that he was talking with some of his cat hunting buddies and they like the thicker coated hounds best, at least in the country with lots of thorns. They too believe it helps deflect the thorns. He says that they’ve watched pretty close and they can’t tell that those thick coated ones get any hotter than the thinner slicker ones but that they pick a lot more thorns out of the slicker haired ones than the others. I’m sure there is probably some truth to that. I think maybe the more thorns get in the longer haired ones than thought but aren’t nearly as easy to see. I can also see where the longer, thicker coats won’t show the wear that those slick coated ones will. That’s my two cents!


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[Arkansashunter96]

I’ve been wondering lately what the difference was herding baying wise between border collies and shepherds versus cow bred stock catahoulas and curs. It seems like a good thing to have a cur that just constantly circles or a collie that only moves when the game moves. If that is how they’d going about doing it.


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