Young Guns

[Cajun]

Three young dogs I am starting this year. They are right at 7 months. About a month ago I showed them their first hog, about a 60# shoat and they caught it. Put them in one at a time and they still caught out. Probably will not live long!  Got a feeling tho that they going to be taking a lot of hogs to the train station. They have been running since they were 4 1/2 months old in a running pen.


The


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[BA-IV]

What’re they off Mike? Can’t beat that for young dogs starting, sure makes it easier to feed em!

[The Old Man]

Well the next round of them seem real  promising, hope they survive.

[Cajun]

Ben, all three are off my Oak dog by three different gyps. The Maltese female is off my Trumpet dog who is the grittiest dog on my yard. She is a running catchdog. No bay to her unless she is by herself in a real thicket. Rip, the pup with the red collar is off of Auburn who is off of Hank x a Littermate to Trumpet. Flint is off Showgirl.
Oak


Showgirl


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[t-dog]

Sounds like like they will be giving hogs the fits if they can get educated without meeting their maker. Really nice looking dogs!


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[Judge peel]

Those are some good looking dogs bubba


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[The Old Man]

They are good looking pups, from what little I can see the one with the blue collar is my favorite.

[williamsld]

Some fine looking pups! Hopefully you can get them on a rank sow off the bat and back them up some


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[Arkansashunter96]

I’ve thought about starting young dogs in a running pen. What kind of game is in the pen your using?


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[Cajun]

A friend of mine has a old coyote pen with hogs inb it.

[make-em-squeel]

How open are your plots?

[Cajun]

Some are tighter mouth then others but if a dog can smell it and move it, I want him opening. Besides, I like those hogs to know what's coming.

[Birdslayer86]

Hey Cajun how are these young guns getting it done and are they all still living ?? I would imagine they have been through what most would consider there first season by now.

[Cajun]

Birdslayer, all three of the top pups are making the grade so far. That pup with the blue collar has already cost me 1650.00 on two vet visits. He got gutted on a hoghunt and herniated on the inside of the skin. Normally I would have opened him up to see what the damages were but we got home late and if one of the intestines had been punctured, that is above my pay load. Took to the Vet the next morning and he just had a couple of loops of intestine hanging out but inside the skin. That one was 700.00.  Sent him and the other two up to Wisconsin and he(Chief) got sent back to the Vet. on his 3rd day of hunting.He had 3 broken ribs and a dislocated hip. That one cost me 960.00 While I hate to pay it, that pup was at the tree treeing with that damage and still ran that hog another hour after being gutted. Rip had his shoulder chewed up pretty good but only missed a week and Sassy has had holes in her but nothing to serious. All in all they are doing well for their age. They are  right at 13-14 months of age.

[Cajun]

I meant to add, that Chief pup is a littermate to Highwaters dog that is on the catchy side. Those two dogs on the bottom are two year olds and can do it all by there selves.

[Birdslayer86]

Hell yea Cajun that sounds awesome other then the vet bills but the rougher style is definitely what you lean to which I believe is staying true to what they are suppose to be. I’ve looked at a few and just haven’t been impressed. A lot of people over look the grit a hound has and think they can’t run one like a silent dog which is just so far from the truth. What they don’t realize is a hound has the lung bottom to see it to the end where a cur type dog will quit it far before a hound would ever even think it. I just want someone’s cull that may not make it in the woods but will in the pen. I’ve been to a plot bay the last couple years in north GA and them boys ought to be ashamed of themselves. I thought being close to places that allow bear hunting it would be impressive and that just hasn’t been the case. Is that what you sent them up north for bear season ??

[t-dog]

Birdslayer, it doesn’t matter what breed it is, pen dogs are seldom woods dogs. NOT ALWAYS, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS!! Pens were originally to judge the working style of dogs in the woods, they got away from that many years ago. It happened for several reasons but mainly because the practical style didn’t suit the pen lovers. There are a ton of pen dogs that are pen dogs because they were bred to be pen style dogs or they were woods culls for one reason or another. I remember a VERY prominent Catahoula dog that won tons in the pen and was in lots of peds because of it. Out of the owners mouth “ he’s pretty rascal but he’s as sorry as he is pretty”. He said” he wasn’t worth a nickel in the woods and if he had to work any longer than the 3 minutes (I think that was the bay time), he wouldn’t be any good at that”. “But he shines like new money for that little amount of time”.

Cajun, I hate that your young dog had the hip dislocated. Hopefully it won’t hinder him for a long time. I agree though, you had to spend that money, he did his part for sure.

To me, that drive is what separates hounds and cur types. I don’t know that it’s as much the bottom is different but that the heart and desire is. I might offend somebody here, but I’m gonna say it, the purer dogs are to the cur type, the less you will get from them in the heat or in extreme adversity. I have hunted in lots of places with lots of dogs in my almost 52 years. I have hunt with good dogs of most every breed commonly used for hogs. The dogs that always mashed the gas in adversity, be it heat, injury, etc., were the hounds or dogs that had hound in their back ground. It may a ways back but was still there enough to have influence. Some people don’t want that kind of bottom or drive. They feed them so it’s their business. I personally like it, expect it, and appreciate it. Again, there are some exceptions, that will always be the case in anything. I’m in no way trying to discount or insult ANYONES dogs. The old timers new these things I believe. They used hound way too often to breed back into stale cur types to freshen them back up. Usually the F1’s weren’t their desired result, but after that they started getting back more to the original dogs they had but renewed vigor.


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[Birdslayer86]

T-Dog I whole heartedly agree with you about the pen dog woods dog debate and I’m well aware of all that and why Dad owns woods dogs and my daughter owns pro pen dogs. Very very seldom do they excel at both but like you said there is always an exception here and there. In my opinion the good woods dogs that can get it done in the pen often catch out . Hell the #1 pen dog there is right now with several hundred thousand in winning can do both but in my opinion I feel he produces better woods dogs then pen dogs. It just blew my mind the lack of want to from the plot dogs in the pen. Hell we can’t run a 2 dog because the hogs just aren’t up to par at that bay pen but they have a 2 dog plot bay and doesn’t help any. The bays are at 2 minutes for 1st round now but I’ve seen several bay offs eventually pushing 12/15 minutes. The pen dogs are specialist these days and I understand it. First part of next year there will be a woods dog only bay in OK and if it wasn’t a 20hr drive for me I’d damn sure be there as I feel it’s going to be getting back to the old days and the origin of it all and Mr Rusty puts a set of hogs together that are the real deal.

I again agree with you on the hound thing and your right the F1’s are nice but I think when you get them back down to 1/4 that’s where they really start to shine again. If one was serious about it though and not a purest as you have to take the good with the bad when it comes to pure and wanted to make a line you’d be hard pressed to put something together that preformed better then a good game line bred for lung crossed with a true fox pen dog. A 3 day type and then put some cur in them or took it back to the fox pen dog and were real selective about it. Most don’t have the patience to see a 5 to 10 project through and keep there eye on the goal though.

[t-dog]

It’s a challenge for sure. It’s also expensive and requires lots of dog space if you’re attempting it solo. As you said, you have to really be selective which means a lot of hunting on a lot of dogs. My family of dogs carry hound but it wasn’t a one time injection. Being selective for what I like has bred the hound percentage down on paper but not in traits. I still get some real good hound qualities in a more cur type conformation. Many of them have that hound color and markings though. My saving Grace has been that some great friends also got on the band wagon and hunt the same dogs which allows us all to trade pups back and forth and collaborate on breedings. We keep and raise what we can hunt fairly. So far it’s worked great.

Cajun, do you have anyone that you work closely with like myself and some of my friends and my nephew do?

I know this can be hard because everyone has a little different flavor about something. I’m my case, with the exception of the Sexsquatch, we all hunt the same kind of country and hogs, issuing the same style. The Sexsquatch lived out here long enough to know and understand our ways, I think he’s still using the same method for the most part in Georgia.


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[cajunl]

Those two dogs on the bottom are two year olds and can do it all by there selves.

This is my benchmark in a dog.

When I breed dogs, if they can do it all alone at two years old, to me that is a successful breeding.

They sound like some really nice dogs Mike.