Why not open mouthed?

[raider54]

Big Aina, how much experience do you have with running open mouth dogs?  Pigs will sit their ass down and bay for an open mouth dog as well as a silent dog.  

Raider, How do you know the pigs are leaving the country, have you seen them actually leaving??

Well looks like you dont like to be challenged but to answer your question YES! when I follow a pack of hounds 6 or 7 miles I call that out of the country! I do agree that open mouth dogs will sit a hog down! but not when they have a one hour headstart.

[Eric]

It has to do with hogs exposure to dogs. The more hogs are exposed to hog hunting with dogs the more they learn to associate the bark of a dog with hunters.

You maybe can get away with open dogs on a big brush ranch that gets hunted a couple time a month, hunt a grain field several times a week and it probably won't work too well.

[Noah]

Pertinent story to the subject... a mnth ago I actually went deer hunting on the property we've dogged for the last 2 yrs.... now no one shoots hogs on this property, so the only fear these hogs have are of being dogged...

I got in my treestand and got settled... meanwhile, my buddy was getting in his stand on the far side of the property(up wind of me)... moments later it was like a stampede of swine  .... first a small boar came streaking by... visibly scared out of his mind...then a pack of 5, then 3 more.... and these hogs weren't just trotting... they were hauling ass.... straight line, headed for the next county!

All this, from just winding a guy getting into his stand... "smell a man, hear a bark... dog's gonna be chewing on my ass shortly... I better get the heck outa' here! " ....sound or smells, they learn real quick what's up.

[outlaw14slayer]

Raider, What style dogs do you run?  Are they close range?  How long will they stick with a track?  

Big an b, I only have a few years under my belt.  Since we've had the Garmin and we can see what the dogs are doing, we've watched the open dogs on track and they show the hogs they are trailing staying in a relatively small area (3/4 sq mile), although the track itself may at times be long.  

[Randy_P]

Oh Raider....I love a good challenge when they come about!!!  I agree that there are pigs that run when they hear dogs bark or 4 wheelers crank up.  I have hunted all over the Sulphur River. That is the way it is there.  But these pigs are not running straight line. I just dont think many of them actually run straight line for 6-7 miles.  I simply asked you a question about if you had seen them run out of the country.  Alot of people think when a pig runs it is running out of the country.  Most times they are running a tangled track to try and loose its pursuers.

[raider54]

Raider, What style dogs do you run?  Are they close range?  How long will they stick with a track?  

Big an b, I only have a few years under my belt.  Since we've had the Garmin and we can see what the dogs are doing, we've watched the open dogs on track and they show the hogs they are trailing staying in a relatively small area (3/4 sq mile), although the track itself may at times be long.  

all of our strike/bay dogs are half hound half cur, anybody that has hunted with us will tell you we have medium to long range dogs, I have a dog named Clay that will be baying that hog until you get to him, he is the kind of dog that will bay a hog and you can go to town get you a #4 at McDonalds come back and he will still be bayed. He has not been gritty at all until recently, I have seen him bay a 25 pound shoat but two weeks ago he caught about 125 pound sow, had her by the butt and she was sitting on his head. We hunt some tough places and are usually on our dogs with in an hour but I have left Clay bayed for as much as 5 hrs

[raider54]

Oh Raider....I love a good challenge when they come about!!!  I agree that there are pigs that run when they hear dogs bark or 4 wheelers crank up.  I have hunted all over the Sulphur River. That is the way it is there.  But these pigs are not running straight line. I just dont think many of them actually run straight line for 6-7 miles.  I simply asked you a question about if you had seen them run out of the country.  Alot of people think when a pig runs it is running out of the country.  Most times they are running a tangled track to try and loose its pursuers.

I agree with that...especially on the Sulpher River bottoms, they dont have to go that far to get away. If every track was a hot track I would like nothing more than to hunt a pack of good fast open mouth hounds the problem is in most of the places we hunt open mout dogs lead to a long day or night.

[BigAinaBuilt]

Agteach11- I have seen 1 pure Plott hound that my uncle brought in from Texas(owner said he wasn't open!) get let out from the truck and open from the second the tailgate dropped and run about a mile loop open the whole way with 3 dogs following behind confused as sh*t only to come back around and be tied back in the truck for the rest of the hunt! Then we took the same dog on another hunt and after doing the same open loop and coming back was sold to a guy for breeding purposes for 1/8 of the cost that it costs to get a dog here from Texas.

 I also have had a friend or 2 bring a dog that would yap when chasing and seen the hogs run like something was on its ass and it knew it!
 Then I have seen where a dog would let out a random bark when crossing a trail and my dogs would rush to him thinking he had a pig in sight and then return to check in with me and by the end of the hunt my dogs weren't answering the dogs random barks or when he actually had one  ( That didn't go well for him) and wouldn't answer till they heard the pig blow or take off .

 I have no doubt an open dog can get r done but from my experiences I stick with the dogs that are silent unless the pig is stopped and it needs you to bring the gun.

[jsh]

Well here's my .02 -

MOST of the people that I've personally heard bash open mouth dogs have been guys with very little experience hunting.  They're usually heard the phrase from someone else and pass it along.  I am not directing this comment on anyone on this thread so don't take offense to it.  I get irritated however to hear these generalizations about open mouth dogs because there are so many factors to consider.  First, you can run hogs off small properties with silent dogs too - been there done that.  Go ahead and say my dogs aren't rough enough that's fine, but if you've been hunting long enough you know you can't catch them all.  Secondly, Noah's right as you can bet your you know what that if a place has been dogged too much that an open trailing dog will run them into the next zip code a lot quicker - no arguement there.  But we also have to remember that a hog's sense of smell is excellent and can also catch a wiff of a silent cur and run like hell.  Third - if your dogs are running to a trail bark and not a bay, then you have not put together an effective pack.  Hunt them together long enough and they'll understand each other.  The last point I'd like to bring up is a dog that opens when the bay breaks.  I know some guys that hate this.  What I cannot understand is how these two scenarios are different: You've got a bay, get the hog under control and your dogs roll out and bay another.  Do hogs stand around and wait on a bay but only scatter when a dogs chasing them and barking?  I do have proof on this as I have caught multiple hogs at a time with dogs opening in pursuit.  Doesn't bother me one bit that they open as it helps me and the rest of the pack locate them quicker.  TRACK SPEED is the key here.  The dogs I am referring to in this case are silent trailing dogs, only opening up when they make eye contact with a hog and staying open until it's harvested.

I don't know it all, my dogs are mediocre and I love hunting - as well as a good debate based on experience.

[buddylee]

I have never hunted with open hounds other than a Jagd terrier !!! He could sometimes get it done but what usually happened was the hogs would hear him coming and run like hell. I personally saw hogs run ahead of him after they heard him bark. From talking to people the only way you can catch a hog with open hounds is if the hogs stops. I guess maybe some really fast hounds that can close the distance and/or run him till he is tired. I have heard too many stories of hound hunters having races that last for hours and hours. One guy told me his dogs would run one off of a 25000 acre plantation. On small porperties that ain't good. I personally don't have thousands of acres to mess with a hound. Big properties I guess they are fine. Small properties no.

QUIET DOGS = SHORTER HUNTS   ?
OPEN DOGS = LONGER HUNTS      ?

[kevin]

I just don't like them.  Also most of the open dogs I've had people bring along are open trailing on trash.  Gets pretty annoying.  I don't like making a lot of racket out in the woods.  Just enough to get the job done.

[Bump]

I have some yipping little baxtards. I really dont like when they bark and prefer a silent dog and do agree that it is best to have silent trailing dogs. I think it is more likely to make hogs run and push them quicker if a dog is barking behind them. That being said....I typically have short hunts and catch a good many hogs.

Stealth and scent (wind direction) are very important factors of hog hunters. I dont necessarily believe that hogs run because of open dogs....I think it is from years of being hunted by dogs...open or silent. Hogs just learn to run. Once a silent dog bays...he has become open and hogs within hearing distances run. Some run and stop at short distances and some make a steady run for long distances.

How well/fast a dog can track and abilities to stop and hold the hog is the issue...IMO.

[Buck]

BigA wrote

"Agteach11- I have seen 1 pure Plott hound that my uncle brought in from Texas(owner said he wasn't open!) get let out from the truck and open from the second the tailgate dropped and run about a mile loop open the whole way with 3 dogs following behind confused as sh*t only to come back around and be tied back in the truck for the rest of the hunt! Then we took the same dog on another hunt and after doing the same open loop and coming back was sold to a guy for breeding purposes for 1/8 of the cost that it costs to get a dog here from Texas."

What in the world does that have to do with the question at hand. Sounds to me like you made a bad purchase and then passed on a cull for someone else to deal with.....there is a huge difference between a babbling idiot which you had and a dog that opens when it gets scent.

The thing is it really does not matter if a dog is open or silent. The good ones can get it done regardless

[LionandBoarHunter]

I have both open an silent dogs i have taken my silent dogs out and they ran a hog a mile and caught it an the next time i went hunting i took some of my open dogs and caught one 20 yards from the truck on the same ranch that i have been doggin for 18 to 19  years and my dogs can runwith the best of them. My point is i think it all depends on the hog alot of the hogs in my area travel quite a ways and when you get on them they are goin back where they come from and they are not goin to stop till they get there dont matter if you have a dog chewing on there nuts are not. My hound crosses only barks if they are right on the hogs azz and running with there head up not with there head down trailing on the ground they are not barkin a mile behind them i do belief if a dog is blabling on trail barkin behind or barkin out of place or cold trailing a hog that been there 5 hours ago yea you are goin to hav a chase and a long night. JMO

[BigAinaBuilt]

What in the world does that have to do with the question at hand. Sounds to me like you made a bad purchase and then passed on a cull for someone else to deal with.....there is a huge difference between a babbling idiot which you had and a dog that opens when it gets scent.

Agteach asked me what kinds of experience I have with Open dogs and I stated every experience I had off the top of my head and from that I have built my opinion that I will stick with silent dogs. Whether you like my opinion or not I will still hunt the way I do, I suggest you do the same! Good luck!

[Goatcher]

We have watched hogs avoid dogs from helicopters and also ran hogs with radio collars on them.  In general, it is 50/50 if they line out and leave the county at first bark.  I am amazed at how many move ahead of barking dogs, but just enough to hide here and there, playing cat and mouse.  It does not seem to matter if the hog is dog wise or not, the strategy they use to evade dogs is not always "line out and leave."  Wild hogs are the most successful survivor on the planet, except for maybe roosterroaches (note: the auto censor on this board will not let me use the 4-letter word ahead of "roach" for a common bug - puts in "rooster" instead --- interesting!  )  and man.  They did not earn that distinction by using only one strategy to avoid men with dogs.

I was a dyed-in-the-wool silent cur man for 20 years.  As of the last ten years, I  have seen some semi-open curs and pure hounds, as long as they are fast on the track and willing to bite a departing hog on the rump, do as good on packs of dog wise hogs as any silent dogs, maybe even better.  But where I hunt, if your dog does not go over 1,000 yards, even a mile after a hog, you will never get one.  Why?  Because as of the last five years, they have removed over 200 hogs off this small place with 100% silent dogs.  That is 100% silent full pitt bull RCDs and pitt x BMCs.  Anything that does not run here does not breed its own kind.  The runners that are left breed more of their kind.  They hear a 4-wheeler, hear a horse snort, smell a dog , hear a dog, its a race from the start.  No easy hogs left.

[HogzgoneWild]

Well played Lionandboarhunter- all depends on the hog! I think that sums it up well, and in my opinion I agree. And I have owned both....hounds for coons, curs for hogs, BUT I have caught hogs with both and been burned with both, all part of the game and all comes with the territory.

[c.miller]

I think it truly depends on how fast the open dog runs a track. If he trots along opening his mouth every step then he's not needed.

[claudine322]

Sounds like the people on here are using the hogs as an excuse to reinforce what they like in a dog.  The others are saying it confuses them and they want to know that the dog is looking at the hog before he opens.  My answer to all of you is stick to what you like and get to know your hounds.  If you cant tell if your dog is bayed or tracking you should either pay better attention to your hounds or get a Yorkie and stay on the couch.

[claudine322]

Agteach11- I have seen 1 pure Plott hound that my uncle brought in from Texas(owner said he wasn't open!) get let out from the truck and open from the second the tailgate dropped and run about a mile loop open the whole way with 3 dogs following behind confused as sh*t only to come back around and be tied back in the truck for the rest of the hunt! Then we took the same dog on another hunt and after doing the same open loop and coming back was sold to a guy for breeding purposes for 1/8 of the cost that it costs to get a dog here from Texas.

Why in the heck would you sell a bad trait dog for breeding purposes, CULL, CULL, CULL, and then CULL some more, I hope you get burnt again by one of his offspring!