Should a dog have a good handle before being put in the woods?

[dfboothe]

i didn't want to jack anyone's post that i saw,
should a young dog have a pretty good handle on them before they go into the woods?
or should you worry about that later on?
i'd like to hear both sides of the opinion if there are two sides
thanks for any information

Dylan

[PPHOGDOGGER]

 Yes. I would suggest getting them very comfortable around livestock before you make it to the field. I think at the very least you should take them by livestock before the hunt gets started just to see what your dealing with. If you don't you could have a Huge problem on your hands.

[Noah]

Very good question... as long as I can call the young dog to me, I won't hesitate to put them in the woods.  For me, it's all about keepin' the dog in the woods as much as humanly possible.  With time, the handle comes... mess around waiting on handle to develop and you're losing valuable "formative" time, the young dog could be advancing as a hunter.

I need to modify my signature... to say.. "Disclaimer: this is only the opinion of myself, and in no way reflects the opinion of the rest of the world"

[Jeff]

as noah and the other guy said, they should at least be stock broke and come when called.

if you spend too much time on basic obedience and parlor tricks with a young dog, it'll be bonded too tightly to you.  you don't want them standing around waiting to be petted.  you want them a little bit standoffish and independent.   this applies to dogs that could go either way, genetically.  if they're wired to go hunt, all the obedience training in the world won't stop them.

if you like 100 yard pig dogs, train away.

better yet, forget all that crap i just said. the short answer is, it depends on the dog. lol

[duece24]

i think you should put a good handle on them. when you call they should come, simple as that. i don't teach my dog parlor tricks but when i say come they need to come. it isn't fun to go hunt and when its time to go your dogs take off running from you and won't listen. i actually like my dogs to be bonded to me, if bred right they will still get out and hunt good for you. i wont them bonded because i think that makes them hunt that much harder, in my mind. they want to please you so much that they tear the woods up for you. just my opinion.

[Noah]

I agree Duece, I prefer a dog that hunts for me, rather than for itself.  Some dogs you can ruin with too much bonding, some just get better... I think it has a lot to do with genetics, the ability to bond well with the owner without spoiling drive....

[dabutcher]

I agree Duece, I prefer a dog that hunts for me, rather than for itself.  Some dogs you can ruin with too much bonding, some just get better... I think it has a lot to do with genetics, the ability to bond well with the owner without spoiling drive....

it most definitely comes from genetics.  a dog that has handle and wont leave your side is a dog that wouldn't hunt without handle.  only difference is it doesn't runaway from you when you're tired of the dog standing beside you.

[crackerc]

I must have a handle on my dogs, probably more so than what is needed. That said, my dogs are not going to hunt as wide as some, but whether thats from the cow dog breeding or from me making them handle???

I just know that if I have a young dog that won't go back in its pen, won't come when its called, runs from you when you go to load it in the truck....it won't stay here.

I link "handle" with intelligence. If a dog is smart enough to figure out what you are trying to get it to do, you can teach it a lot. If its an idiot that runs through the woods chasing anything that moves and doesn't care if you are around or not......I call those .."someone elses dogs".........

[pig snatcher]

Nope, as long as I can catch it without much trouble I will hunt it.  Handle will come with time.  I dont do in the yard training, I do on the job. 

[Bryant]

dfboothe,

I suppose your question was posed because of a statement I made in a prior thread so let me first state the simple answer, then I'll explain.

should a young dog have a pretty good handle on them before they go into the woods?

With a bulldog, you better believe it.  With any other dog, I say absolutely not.

Let me also say that I don't consider trash breaking and handle the same thing.

Personally, I own and feed my dogs to perform one and only function...to find and catch me hogs.  When I start young pups, I look for one thing right away...independence.  I want to see that the dog is not afraid to leave me and go explore around the woods.  Obviously, a pup fresh to the game isn't going to know what they're looking for but I'm wanting to see the expressed genetics...the pup doesn't know why it's hunting but it just is.  If the new pup gets trashy in the woods and chases off game, thats GREAT.  That shows prey drive and I can fix that problem.  If the pup shows the desire to work, and keeps showing me things that spark my interest, then the time will come for handle.  If not, why waste the time?

I'm a firm believer that everything you do in a young dogs life is conditioning that dog whether you realize it or not.  For example, you let it out of the pen and constantly call the dog to you....you're conditioning the dog that it's okay to stay by you.  Then at a year old you take the dog to the woods and your chasing it around telling it to "Get Ahead"...heck, that's got to be confusing as all get-out!

People might disagree, but if someone's content with 100 yard hunting dogs that come blasting out of the woods each time a pickup or four wheeler starts, then spend all the time you like with them.  As with anything, there are always exceptions.

I link "handle" with intelligence. If a dog is smart enough to figure out what you are trying to get it to do, you can teach it a lot.

I disagree with that statement.  With enough time, you can teach just about any dog to do anything *EXCEPT* to hunt.

If its an idiot that runs through the woods chasing anything that moves and doesn't care if you are around or not......I call those .."someone elses dogs".........

I would personally call that a darn good young prospect that needs to be trashbroke.  I've seen very few good dogs that weren't trashy as heck as pups.  They're not born knowing what to hunt.

[Drue]

I agree with pigsnatcher and Bryant.
The best dogs I ever had didn't want to be caught when we got to the truck! The more we hunted the more hogs the bayed and we caught the easyer they were to get along with, because we then had a understanding of what I expected out of them and they of me. I've got a few right now that are hard to catch but when they hunt they hunt and when its over there ready to be caught.

[duece24]

i guess we consider handle two different things...what i consider handle is nothing more than when i call they come. simple as that. everyone has their own ideas of how to raise their dogs and they are many ways to skin a cat.

i choose to bond with my dog. i want my dog to want to come to me as much as it wants to hunt. when i take my dogs off the chain or out of the pen i'm not constantly calling it to me. i will let them run around then periodically call them to me, just to see if they will listen to what i'm saying.

i need/want a dog that does what i want it to not what it wants to. when i'm ready to go home, I'M READY TO GO HOME. i don't want my dogs to basically tell me "up yours, i still want to hunt." as one of my co-workers said "i'm in charge of this s***!" they need to know and respect that. if they can't i don't need them, i'll take my time getting another one that will listen.

both dogs i have now will range out to around 300yds and have found hogs everytime i've dropped them over the past 2-3months. when i call i have to wait maybe 5-10min depending on how far out they are but they will come running and i load up and go home, i like that. every time my truck starts my dogs don't come running, but if i call and they don't come i will start teh truck and start driving..they then come running. they are smart dogs...lol.

just what i like in my dogs...every man is different and this is what makes for an enjoyable hunt for me. hunt when it's time to go, we go..the dogs don't control us, we control the dogs.

[Pecos21]

This is a subjective topic (as many on here are).....one man's definition of "handle" will not be the same as the next man.


Having said that........If I can't catch a dog when I am ready to leave, he WILL NOT eat my dog food, no matter how good a prospect he is!!! I just got rid of a dog that was a good prospect but I could not catch. I have been catching hogs for a long time, and I used to run hounds in the '80's that were HARD to catch.....and it drove me nuts!!!! As I moved on to cur dogs, I began to work with them more and I liked the results. They had a "handle" on them.

My curs dogs aren't long range dogs but they find hogs....and when I call them in the woods they come to me.....you know why....because I feed them, and if they don't come.....someone else will feed them when I catch them up.......

[BigAinaBuilt]

I focus heavily on getting a handle on my dogs whether it be loading up, laying down or coming to me when I call before I get them in the forests.

[djhogdogger]

We let our dogs love of hunting develope before we worry too much about handle. We let them make mistakes and act goofy until they find a hog. Seems like after they find a hog and that light in their head comes on, then you can start teaching them other things without dulling their drive. Oh and we don't trash break one until they find a hog becaues we don't want to tell them what they can't chase until they know what they can chase. JMO

[PPHOGDOGGER]

dfboothe,

I suppose your question was posed because of a statement I made in a prior thread so let me first state the simple answer, then I'll explain.

should a young dog have a pretty good handle on them before they go into the woods?

With a bulldog, you better believe it.  With any other dog, I say absolutely not.

Let me also say that I don't consider trash breaking and handle the same thing.

Personally, I own and feed my dogs to perform one and only function...to find and catch me hogs.  When I start young pups, I look for one thing right away...independence.  I want to see that the dog is not afraid to leave me and go explore around the woods.  Obviously, a pup fresh to the game isn't going to know what they're looking for but I'm wanting to see the expressed genetics...the pup doesn't know why it's hunting but it just is.  If the new pup gets trashy in the woods and chases off game, thats GREAT.  That shows prey drive and I can fix that problem.  If the pup shows the desire to work, and keeps showing me things that spark my interest, then the time will come for handle.  If not, why waste the time?

I'm a firm believer that everything you do in a young dogs life is conditioning that dog whether you realize it or not.  For example, you let it out of the pen and constantly call the dog to you....you're conditioning the dog that it's okay to stay by you.  Then at a year old you take the dog to the woods and your chasing it around telling it to "Get Ahead"...heck, that's got to be confusing as all get-out!

People might disagree, but if someone's content with 100 yard hunting dogs that come blasting out of the woods each time a pickup or four wheeler starts, then spend all the time you like with them.  As with anything, there are always exceptions.

I link "handle" with intelligence. If a dog is smart enough to figure out what you are trying to get it to do, you can teach it a lot.

I disagree with that statement.  With enough time, you can teach just about any dog to do anything *EXCEPT* to hunt.

If its an idiot that runs through the woods chasing anything that moves and doesn't care if you are around or not......I call those .."someone elses dogs".........

I would personally call that a darn good young prospect that needs to be trashbroke.  I've seen very few good dogs that weren't trashy as heck as pups.  They're not born knowing what to hunt.

they are seperate things, but it helps when you can tell a dog to GET OUT! right before he even gets a chance act a fool.

[Hog Dog Mike]

It's kinda like bird dogs. If they want to handle and go with you they will and if they don't they are not worth fooling with. I had a bird dog one time that was a direct son of a national champion out of a daughter of a national champion. The most sorry dog that ever made a kennel point. He had absolutely no handle and I worked on it. However, he taught me a good lesson. If they do not want to go with me and load up when I am ready to go fine. They can stay in the woods and I have left some.

Some dogs are not smart enough to hunt for hogs and keep up with you at the same time. The good ones can do it but the sorry ones cannot.

I am with Pecos on this one.

[duece24]

pphogdogger i agree with you also..if i yell at my dogs to get out, they know whatever they are doing they better stop or they are getting a boot! when it's feeding time i can tell my dogs to back up and they take three steps back so i can put food down(this may seem trivial but when you have a 6 and 4 y/o that like to feed the dogs, it matters).

i'm not buying that putting a handle on a dog early takes away from their hunting drive. i got one buddy that by 6mos all his pups can be lead without them pulling, will load, and will come to you when called. these same dogs as adults are hunting 700+ yds out and stopping hogs over a mile out. a handle doesn't diminish the drive of a dog, it simply means your dog listen to what you ask it to do....then it DOES it.

[Eric]

Some dogs are not smart enough to hunt for hogs and keep up with you at the same time. The good ones can do it but the sorry ones cannot.

I agree and start working on handle from day one.

[dfboothe]

thanks for all the opinions
i personally haven't hunted hogs with dogs,
i haven't been able to, but i like reading about it, maybe one day i will
i asked this question to find out if a handle is nessacary, i can see that a handle can make or break a dog for some people, i have a young dog that might make a coon dog, if not i'll throw him near some hogs and see what he does, he's a stray i found, figure he might need to earn his food, thanks for all the opinions and information,