weatherford ben bloodline?

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Obviously you haven't been reading what I have written.  I think the dogs have the potential to be great.  I don't have to talk to him to know how he is breeding the dogs.  You can't use every dog you have as a stud dog. That is common sense.  I haven't sold a pup in over a year, and have only sold 6 pups and two started dogs in my life.  I don't mass produce dogs, and don't want to breed anything until I find the dog that I think is suitable to be bred.  I have a problem with the philosophy of using any dang dog to breed just because it is marketed as a genetic wonder dog...The statement that you can use any dang gyp in the yard as a brood gyp is just stupid and it is why people don't have better dogs today.  Now do yourself a favor and go back and read what I have written.  I coulld care less about his guarantee, because I know that he has a yard full of dogs(I have friends I trust who have been to his yard many times) on chains and doesn't hunt them to know which dogs would be best for hog dogs.  Also, cow dogs that will bay thier heads off in a pasture at cows they can see with their eyes are not good enough to be bred for hog dogs. Oh and I could put down that I am Jesus on my website and that doesn't make it true. Hopefully you can see what I am trying to say...If I need to be more clear, pm me and I will call you and we can talk about it.  My attempt was to help, but obviously you tooK offense to something I said.  

[BoggerCountyHogHunter]

  WOW!  What a topic!  I will try to answer some questions that I know to be facts.  To jdt I currently own Rita and she will never be sold again.  That I can tell you for a fact.  Why did he sell her in the first place you asked?  Well to be quite frank (Things happen in everyones lives that cause them to part with something from time to time that they wish they didn't have to sell).  I would suggest you call Randy and ask him why he sold her.  He will tell you and then you won't have to do any wondering.  I am really still trying to see the relavance of that post.  Does it matter that he sold Rita?  Should everyone be suspicous of the man that sold Weatherford's Ben?   Or could it be because it was a lot of $$$ offered for the dog  
  I can in fact, also say I hunt these dogs and can show them in the woods anytime.  I have had several dealings with Randy Wright and he has conducted himself with nothing but honesty and integrity every time.  The dogs were what he said they would be every single time.  So I say if you can rattle off percentages and be 100% right in how these dogs will work.  Well that kinda speaks for itself doesn't it.  As far as, guarentees go.  I have seen Mr. Wright on several occassions send people dogs when other peoples dogs didn't work out for free.  They were registered with the foundation and linked back to his stock.  He didn't make one red penny on the deal.  He just wanted to insure the integrity of the association and for the sake of our breed.  He didn't have to do this but he did it.  If you buy a dog from him he guarentees YOU to be satified with the dog.  It's really quite simple!  If you are not happy with the dog then let him know and he will do what he needs to make it right.  Man what more can anyone ask for?  The stud dogs that he owns.  He has proven those dogs on cattle.  There is a lot more to a cow dog than going to a pasture and baying up some cows or yearlings.  There are a lot of big, rough places where the dogs have to track those cattle.  So don't assume that a cow dog never has to hunt for cattle.  In fact, a lot of these same qualities are what is needed in hog hunting.  Therefore, making these dogs a no brainer when it comes to hunting.  I would strongly suggest that anyone interested in Weatherford Ben genetics give Randy a call.  He will be more than happy to tell you the good and the bad.  That way you are not hearing random junk from others.  There are a lot of people out there that claim to have Ben this and Ben that but that is sooooo not the case.  Heck, at least ask someone who has bought a dog from him.  Maybe, I need to start a poll on who has bought dogs from Randy and been happy with the outcome.  I bet it would be funny to see if the same ones that know so much about Randy Wright, his genetics, his guarrentees and so on have ever bought from him  

  JMHO!!               

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Randy doesn't have a dog on his yard with much more than 50% WB breeding, but I know 3 people that have dogs with over 60%....So if you want ben dogs why go to randy?  So Bogger, lets talk WB genetics and see whose dog has more Ben in them...and it says clearly on his website that Bounty Hunter never produced a cull, so what are all these culls that he has replaced?  How is that possible if there are no culls.  So, which is it, does he replace culls or is he Marketing that he doesn't have any.. What if I could give you the number of a guy who 5 years ago bought several dogs from him and culled everyone of them.  What if I told you that several were sons of Bounty Hunter....Would you still say I didn't know what I am talking about?  How about I give you his number and you can go talk to him.  Oh and WB was sold to Randy for $150.00 because he was a cull that was a straight catch dog.  Now this doesn't mean that everyone would cull him, but it isn't like you say that Randy paid a bunch of money for him either.  Lets talk facts....Where do you live, I want to come see your ben dogs?  Tell me how they hunt and tell me about their bottom....Tell me how many culls you have had and what your success rate is....Have you produced any dogs, or have you bought them all frrom Randy?  I don't want to buy from him because it says on his website that ben and bounty hunter never produced a cull.  That scares me enough to stay away.  Especially when I know for a fact that ben had 40 litters...Where are all those top dogs now?  We know none of them were culled right?

[airduster29]

wow  where to start what a topic. I am steven of 4d kennels ive had these ben dogs going on 12 years and hunt them very week I always hunt a dog to find out its potential before i breed them  so all of my dogs have proven them selves to me all 30 of them lol i personally guarantee my dog to work what ever you are trying to do with it from hogs,bears,cats,people,cows, it dont matter these dogs wrork whatever u want to put in front of them but it does matter on who trys to work them some people just shouldnt even bother   and some are right we as breederes do like the best of breeds to stay close or to peole we trust but evan the others are still elite oh well just a few words i could ramble forever but i do use my dogs alot and are what work for me
thanks matt and casey for ur input
575 693 8491
if anyone want to know more

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Stephen - Didn't mean to pull you into this, I have heard good things about you and your dogs...Let me ask you this, do you think that if you went to Randy's today and started over that you would have as good of dogs as you have now?  Honest question..

[dgdawsonBMCs]

I am baseing my hunting dogs around her.  I need a set of jam up cow dogs and a set of jam hog dogs.  I figured who better to do it with than one of the best female BMC's in the country.

Bogger - Saw this on another page from you...You invited people on the website to come see your dogs hunt.  So do you have these dogs today, or is it your hope to breed them in the future...Cause it sounded like you were speaking from experience..

[BoggerCountyHogHunter]

  I am from Bremond Texas and yes we can go hunting.  Give me a call and we can set it up.  My number is at the bottom of this post.  You will leave here with a different perspective, I promise.  I feel you will be happy with what you see out of these yellow hammers  To answer the other stuff.  Randy was replacing other folks stuff not his.  However, if he needed to he would replace one of his as well.  I know this for a fact.  As far as, what Ben brought (that's really none of my business).  I don't have any animosity towards you.  I just stand up for what I beleive in and I beleive in Randy Wright and his genetics.  Again, he has always treated me with the upmost respect.  He has also always had nothing but the highest of moral character and been 100% honest.  You asked Steven where he would be today if he had to start over?  What is your point here?  Are you saying that the dogs Randy is currently raising are not as good as they use to be?  

    

[BoggerCountyHogHunter]

    Yes I have had them and yes I have them now.  I will just be basing a lot off of her in the future.  I am not in to selling my dogs.  Anyone that knows me can tell you this.  I breed them for me to use.  As well as, some close friends.  You can be the judge if you show up for a hunt   I am more than likely not nearly as knowledgeable about all of this as you though    

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Yes, that is my belief...So, does Randy feel that any of his dogs are fit to breed?  If so, then why wouldn't the dogs progeny be fit to breed.  Or is it that only Randy's can breed the two dogs and get aces.  If I breed A and B from his yard together, shouldn't I get aces too?  I really like the debate, and have no animosity to you either.  What will I see from your dogs that are different from the ones I have?  My point in this whole thread is that I have ben dogs and I have no name dogs...I keep the good ones and I have good ones that are not ben bred dogs...I personally have seen some jam up Ben bred dogs, but they are from older stock. Now I will be honest, I haven't seen everyones dogs..  When I look at the papers I have seen, I see that Randy bought Ben and then outcrossed him to several other females in the foundation program...Burkhart, Sims, Gay and others...then it looks like the progeny have been bred together..  I know for a fact that some of these dogs are better than the others...If they weren't, why does Randy have 3 or 4 of the older dogs bloodlines that he markets?  I have a couple of my dogs that are way more dog aggressive than I want.  I wish I knew where it came from so I could get rid of it.  I met someone in Louisiana who bought a dog from Randy 12 years ago and this dog havd no aggression problems at all, they line bred/inbred this dog with a jam up local female BMC and they have thrown many jam up dogs.  I bought one of their dogs and if he turns out like some of their others I will use him,  He will protect hmself, burt has no aggressin issues that I can see so far.

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Again, I just want to debate...I am not saying I know it all, just want to know it all  Tell me about your dogs...What do you like about them?  Is there anything you don't like about them?  I will tell you my dogs faults if you tell me yours

I guess where I am going here is that everyone is on a different plane when it comes to what they expect out of their dogs...I have no doubt that there are some people on here that I could go hunting with that would smoke you and my dogs....at one time I was very happy with my dogs, untill I saw better dogs and then realized that mine were lacking in some areas.  I have seen dogs that have the bottom to stay on hogs many hours....they produce more hogs than my dogs do...my dogs would probably suit most people on this board, but I want better dogs always...

[DanS]

Somewhere around 10 years ago I made my first phone call to Randy Wright....talked with him about his dogs off and on for several months.....he always had the same things to say.....unbelievable amount of successful puppies, "chainsaw on a hog rearend", super long range, on and on......he and a couple of his cronies where breeding piles of dogs....he was in kahoots with a couple other guys around the south and they were popping out puppies and shipping them all over....If i remember one of the other guys name was lamon....or something like that.......

The sad simply fact is that Randy Wright is not a hog hunter, nor were his cronies......they were strait up pupppy peddlers......breeding piles of unproven dogs to unproven dogs.....always with some kind of grandeous story behind each one.....at the most he was a bay penner.....

but let's take Randy wright and his buddies lack of woods time completely out of the discussion.......It is completely impossible for ANY PERSON to own enough proven finished breedable dogs and produce the amount of puppies he did.......

I got a puppy from him....it was junk.....no big deal, no litter is 100 %....I have hunted with 6 other grown ben dogs.....all not worth my feed......

Now i'm not saying that all ben dogs are completely junk.....i'm sure there are some good ones out there.....at least i hope there are......cause there is a pile of ben dogs on the ground.......my point is with that many unproven dogs being bred to create a line.......you are not buying anything that is any different than your average grade dog......your just buying a normal curdog pup.......

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Thank you Dan...Some people can't see it....I am not saying Randy is a bad guy, but $$ talks...I have talke to several known dog men who do the same thing....You can not mass produce proven dogs....It just can't be done in the numbers they have bred.  Bogger, I know you bought a female from him that produced Pistolero, and he did it because he could get good of money for her and could replace her in a second on his yard...That is a fact...  Have you been to his yard?  Be honest, how many dogs does he have in his yard?  How long would it take in man years to prove all those dogs?  It isn't like making gasoline, there are differences in the dogs...Do you really think that Randy invented the best way to breed dogs?  Hell, all he did was buy up a bunch of old timers work and breed them together and market them.  The genius is in his marketing, not in his genetics or his breeding skills.

[BoggerCountyHogHunter]

  I honestly only have one thing that I don't like about them.  I just wish they knew property lines better  No seriously, I have a male dog that I thank a lot of.  He is a hard hunter!  When he was younger he was a touch rough which like to cost him a time or two.  When you let him go he leaves out and takes care of business.  When you hear him open up he is looking at a hog.  He doesn't bark on track.  He WILL stop a hog.  Once you get in there and catch the hog.  If you don't catch him quick he is gone after another one.  He has the MOST bottom I have ever seen in a dog.  We got on a race this summer and this hog cut a lot of dogs down.  He was still in there on the hog and when I got there he was in there baying away.  His guts were hanging out and I started panicing.  We caught the hog (red hog about 185 pounds with some daggers) and I got him to the vet asap.  I could go on and on but he is my kind of dog.  This is what I expect and will breed for in my dogs.
    

[dgdawsonBMCs]

sounds good, how is he bred?  Will he stay on a hog 8-10 hours if he had to?  How does he handle?

[dgdawsonBMCs]

I just want to say that it was not my intent to offend anyone with my posts today believe it or not...I just have different opinions than some people on the board.  It is hard enough to produce great dogs, and I just don't believe they can be mass produced with the same consistency..

[redriverslim]

The Truth about Senorita . . . I purchased Senorita from Wright in Sept. 2008.  The reason I bought her is because I had bought 4 pups from Robert Benson, started them on cattle young, and like them up to that point.  The mother and father of all those pups came from Wright.  So I called Wright and aked him to breed her to Bounty Buckskin and send her to me bred.  As soon as she got here she started getting sick.  We got 9 days straight of rain, and she got mucous, runny eyes, fever and lost alot of weight.  It was probably due to coming from a dry environment to a rainy humid environment, however I will say that she was in excellent health when Wright sent her.  She had 11 puppies and only 5 lived, but those 5 pups were healthy.  I sold 2 and kept 3.  At this point I had not tried to work her on anything yet.  When she got well and got her weight back, I took her to pen some cattle.  She would NOT WORK.  Even when the other dogs were circling, baying, bunching cattle, all she would do is run out and booger-bark for a few seconds and then run back behind the 4-wheeler or horse.  I tried her several times over the next few months and she flat out would not work.  I never tried her on hogs in a pen or the woods, so for that part I couldn't say.  I called Wright and expressed my concern, and he DID offer to refund my money.  However, a cousin of mine told me he would like to have the bitch and breed her, so I sold her to him for what I paid for her.  He had full understanding that I was not pleased with her as a WORKING DOG, but she may produce good dogs.  He bred her to Rio Concho, but sold her before she whelped.  He used my screen-name to post her for sale, but used HIS phone number.  I had nothing to do with the sale.  However, several people called me wandering why she was for sale, and I told everyone of them that she was not working.  That didn't seem to concern anyone who called, so maybe they knew something I didn't?  I told them they needed to call the man who owned her and he would be honest with them about her.  I know that he told several people who called him the same thing I told them.  The next man that bought her knew what she WAS and WAS NOT, but he stated he would try her as a brood female ONLY, based on her breeding and what she had produced, so I guess everyone was happy.  In other words, there was nobody screwing anybody else over on the deal.  I don't know what happened to her after that.  As for the 3 pups I kept off her, I gave one away to a friend and kept the other 2.  Those 2 pups stayed in the water bowl all time.  They fought the water bowl, turned it over, stuck their heads completley under water, etc.  They were not really old enough to start working anything seriously, but I just didn't like them because they made a mudhold out of my pens and you had to constantly keep filling up water buckets.  I was going to put them down, but my cousin said he would take them and try them on cattle when they got older.  I stayed mad at them anyway, so I let him have them for free.  He got tired of filling up water buckets too, lol, and he sold them to a man from WACO, TX when they around 9 months old.  He told the man the only reason he was selling them is because of the "getting in the water" problem, and this was the 100% truth.  I know this because I was standing there when he told the man.  As for the pup I gave to a friend, he called me and told me that she stood in the water bowl all day, to the point that the hair fell off her legs and her legs and feet stayed infected.  Now this is the 100% truth concerning Senorita.  I haven't added anything to it, or left anything out.  The facts are . . I was not pleased with her, but that doesn't mean she hasn't produced good dogs and maybe I don't know enough about genetics/breeding to know what I DID or DIDN'T have.  The man I bought her from did offer to make it right.  I hope whoever bought her has good luck with her and gets some good dogs out of the deal.             

[BoggerCountyHogHunter]

  I bought Rita and am very happy with her.  It's really weird because after she dried up from the Concho litter I put her on cattle with my male dog.  She took to it like a duck to water.  It took her a bit to warm up to me.  Yellow dogs can be funny and very well may not work for everyone.  I have some of the Concho pups and am very pleased.  I haven't seen any of this water stuff you are refering too.  In fact, one of the Concho pups I kept back bayed a hog in the pen the first time it saw one.  I beleive it was like 6 months old.  Friends of mine got the other two and so far so good.  She is real finicky on what she eats.  I just take some wheat germ oil and put it on her food and she chows down.  I just bred her to male dog of a friend of mine and she had 11 pups.  So far she has raised 5 and I am okay with that.  I bought her like I said for my own use and not to sell pups.  I am not interested in the money I could make.  I am just interested in building my own kennel for my own use.  I am very pleased and happy that I was fortunate enough to get Rita.  All I can say is she will never leave here and have no problem showing her progeny whenever to anyone.  These dogs are bred to work and have done just that.  I don't know very many of those that have posted on this topic.  Who is redriverslim?  Are you and your cousin the ones that sold the dog to Scott?  With all the legal issues right now concerning dogs?
         

[dgdawsonBMCs]

I have never produced a pup that wouldn't bay...especially at 6 months old...but that is a far cry from being a hog dog..

[AnthonyB]

I guess all this talking and bs is getting nowhere. If you want to know what Randy does with his dogs and how they are worked, breed, and what his experience is call him. You may not like what he has to say and he may invite you to meet him somewhere, but you will get the answeres you are looking for instead of all this argument just for arguments sake.

[Mike]

I think everyone said what they had to say three times over... time to move forward now. Y'all got anymore questions or concerns take it up in private.