Tapeworms and Safeguard

[Circle C]

So I have read in several old posts that Safe-Guard does not treat tapes. Yet, when I look up fenbendazole, it says this  " (fenbendazole) is a broad spectrum parasiticide used to treat hookworms, roundworms, tapeworms, and whipworms in dogs."


Can someone clarify what the deal is?

[matt_aggie04]

I think the problem lies with the different type of tapeworms, those brought on by fleas are different than the other types of tape worms.  I will see what I can find.

[matt_aggie04]

Also, if you are seeing segments of tapeworms they have them.  There is no such thing as a dead tapeworm, if they die in the dog they are broken down and digested.

[Circle C]

Thanks Matt.

   I was not aware of the segments being absorbed.  Makes more sense now with Brandy not picking up weight...

I'll either get some Drontal + today or try the Zimectrin Gold.

[matt_aggie04]

praziquantel-this is the key ingredient

[Bryant]

fishtapes or fishtapes forte is the cheapest way to treat.  Drontal is good, but $$$ and only available from the vet.

[Circle C]

Bryant,

  Tell me what I am missing here.

Fishtapes =  "On a bottle of D-Worm (over the counter praziquantel usually available at the feed stores), it states each tablet = 34mg and recommends 5 tablets for a dog 60 lbs or over.  34 X 5 = 170mg...same as the fish tapes forte.  Bottle of 5 = $27.99 / 5 doses = $5.60 per treatment. " 

If I use Equimax paste wormer that cost $9.99 per tube.  Dosing at 170mg, using 250# worth of paste, I would be at $1.90 per treatment.
I guess the question is, can I use a 250# dose of Equimax, without going overboard on the ivermectin.
"DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION: This syringe contains sufficient paste to treat one 1320 lb horse at the recommended dose rate of 91 mcg ivermectin per lb (200 mcg/kg) and 0.68 mg praziquantel per lb (1.5 mg/kg) of body weight. Each weight marking on the syringe plunger delivers enough paste to treat 220 lb (100 kg) of body weight."


BTW, y'all might need to check my math too.  I think its correct, but I am not very good at showing my work.

[Bryant]

OK...let me give this a shot:
Each dose contains 91mcg of Ivomec, and .68 mg of praziquantel.

To get 170mg praziquantel, you'll need a 250 lb dose.  (170 / .68 = 250)
Now, in that same 250 dose: 91mcg Ivomec X 250 = 22,750 mcg or 22.75 mg
I believe the density in 1% Ivomec is such that 1ml/10mg. 1ml=1cc, so you would be giving the dog 2.28cc's of Ivomec, which is a pretty hefty dose.

Somebody smarter than me correct if I'm way off...

zimectrin gold is ivomec and prazaquantel...prazaquantel is a tape wormer. To give enough of the zimectrin gold to take care of the tapes...you'd overdose them on the ivomec.

Here's a quote from another thread by Scott.  Perhaps he knows more...

[Circle C]

Bryant,

   I was coming up with a pretty high dosage of ivermectin in my math too. 

Which brings on another question....

I am reading that people use a dime size amount of Zimectrin Gold, which has 1/2 the amount of praziquantel of Equimax. Yet they still say it clears the tapes. It seems to me that would be a fraction of the dose one would need when using the figure of 170mg praz.

In order to keep the ivermectin to a "safe" amount, one should not be able to get enough praziquantel to be effective...

I know I will have to order some fishtape for my aussies, as they cannot have ivermectin, but I was hoping to be able to hit the curs with the equimax...  Now I don't know what the heck is the best thing to do....

[kevin]

Equimax is 1.87 ivermectin.  
 My parents have a dogo that has been givin up to 4cc's (of ivomec) a day for a month at a time since she was 4 years old.  She is 10 now.  I don't think its very easy to overdose with it.  My sister has a dogo that has eaten a full tube of Safeguard, then a yr later a tube with 1000 lbs left of equimax.  Never even threw up.

[Bryant]

This is from the bottle of praziquantel tablets.  Each tablet containing 34mg.

6-10 lbs: 1 tablet
11-15 lbs.: 1 1/2 tablets
16-30 lbs.: 2 tablets
31-45 lbs.: 3 tablets
46-60 lbs. : 4 tablets
over 60 lbs.: 5 tablets

So if the dog is less than 60 lbs, perhaps it only needs 136 mg.

Also, I would assume the recommended dose would be based upon a major infestation.  If worms aren't that bad much less would probably work.

Personally, I'll just pay the $6 it costs and be done with it.  You don't treat unless there is an active problem, so it's not a recuring cost anyhow.

[ocedy]

Safeguard will take care of some tapes but you have to give it three days in a row. Drontal is the best was togo. there is a sight of a store that is overseas you can buy pill without prescription. It is called pets megga store i think. You only have to worm every three months. Come on guys I know that times are hard, trying to be cheep when you have a dog that can bay or hold a hog is worth more than some back yard reemidies. JMO

[Circle C]

ocedy,

I have already given the dogs a power pack of safeguard, double dose for five days straight. They are still showing signs of tapes. That is why I posted the question to the board.

addressing the issue of being cheap... Trying to find a cost effective treatment is not a bad thing. Especially when using the same active ingredient.  Not exactly a backyard remedy.

[Bryant]

ocedy,

Safeguard (panacur) will not kill most types of tapeworms.

Why (with any type wormer) would you give it every three months?  No wormer (tapes or broad spectrum) is a preventative.  The purpose of worming every month is to kill an active infestation should one be present.

None of this is backyard remedies...just same active ingredients packaged different ways.  If cost is no issue, then why order drontal from overseas instead of just going to the vet and paying $30?

[Bryant]

Chris,

Another alternative I have used is Happy Jack's Tape Worm Tablets.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/-1009-.html

These work out to about $4 a treatment, but in my opinion they're hard to administer.  There is a period before and after you are to withhold food and water.  The pills are about the size around of a nickle and about a quarter inch thick.  Almost inpossible to get the dog to swallow without crushing, but you can't do that and sprinkle on food...not to mention you have to give 5-6 pills.

[Mike]

That's all i've ever used is the Happy Jack's. You can get a bottle at most feed stores... always worked good.

[Randy_P]

valbazen is all i have ever used mixed with ivomec.  I have had tapeworms from differenet sources and this has always cleared the pups or dogs up. 

[BigAinaBuilt]

I use Canidon and it deals with all worms except Heartworms and the dose is 1 tablet for every 22lbs every 3 months and there is no reason to withhold food before or after treatment.

[ocedy]

Hey Bryant, Sorry I did not want you to think I was saying you were cheap. But I was saying/meaning some of the cheaper horse wormers will not get all the worms. Try the pets-mega store site. If you need the number I can get it for you. But the pills they sell will get all the worms and you only have to give it every three months. The pill will not take care of the heart worms. Thanks I did not want to step on your toes. Thanks Ced

[pig snatcher]

When ever you math whizzes figure out how to get the most bang for your buck, how about dumb it up and post it for me.