got a question for you cattlemen out there...

[duece24]

this summer my wife and i are looking to get a bull and a few heifers/cows to put on some family land in east texas. i've done a little research and i'm think i want to get me a full charolais bull or a full santa gertrudis bull. whichever bull i get i want to get the opposite cows/heifers. this isn't going to be my livelihood right now. this is just a side thing/hobby that we are looking to take up. my question is you guys/gals that know more about cattle than i do what breed would you work with? i'm wanting a herd that is rather docile easy to handle. my herd will only consist of about 20or so head right now, as i don't have the means nor the time to have anything more than that(might not even have that many). my plan is to get a young bull, some young heifers and let them do their thing till about a year or so. then my plan is to sell the older heifers and keep the young ones. the money that i make i would purchase a few more cows/heifers. hopefully during this time the calves i did have would have been able to breed with my bull so i would have another round of calves with the new cows/heifers that i just bought. then again selling the older ones and keeping the young ones, and so on.

is this a bad plan? is this not doable? i would like to hear your thoughts on this from the more experienced than i. please remember i'm not trying to actually run a cattle farm here this is pure recreational and something that i can get a handle on so when i retire i've got a good grasp of what i'm doing and i have  decent uniform herd to work. thanks for your thoughts and input.

[3-Bdogs]

ok first if your gettin heifers get a low birth weight bull easier calvin then Idk what you meant by sellin older cows if your talkin about your heifers from yr before i wouldn't recommend it heifers are a pain don't want to have every yr if your not  runnin a big operations and i would prob get first second calve cows to start with their young enough to last awhile and you don't waste time raisin em without your calf crop JMO

[hogzilla24]

I work on a ranch that my dad operates we have right around 1000 head of 100% santa gertrudis cattle. I HATE THE SOB"S!! these cattle are fairly easy going in the pasture but as soon as you get them in a pen you have to watch your back at all times. they get plum crazy especially if they have a calf on the ground.   hat being said if your gonna run them anyway i would say take the S.G. bull and charlais cows. our bulls seem to be alot more gentle wich we also spend more time around them also cause we pull them off the cows for 3 months of the year.
S.G. bulls do put out smaller calves at birth. that is one good thing with young heifers.
Your plan with selling the older heifers and keeping the calves from year to year is not gonna work so well money wise. it takes a heifer roughly 18-22 months to become mature enough to breed. therefor your looking at around 29-34 months between calving sessions. and also as stated previously heifers are a pain to get started calving especially if they are still not matured enough.
i would suggest starting out with some seasoned cows and a 2-3 year old bull. let the older cows breed and calve maybe keep  a few heifer calves this year and breed your old cows again sale your calves that you dont keep save a few from the next calve crop breed cows and the heifers from the year befor and then maybe et rid of some older cows as you bring in the younger heifers.  just repeat that year by year.    
thats just how we run our operation here and this ranch went from 25 head to around 1000 were we have kept it for around 10 years. hope this helps

[clint]

Around here in east Texas is alot of black angus. But what brings the most money is crossing Brahman cows with horned herfford bulls.. And gettin f1 tiger stripe calfs... The Brahman cows are usally gentle but very protective of babies.. And with havin th bigger cows you can also have a bigger birthrate bull... Ain't no coyote or dog gonna get their calves... And the herfford bulls are also easy goin.., this is just my opinion

[levibarcus]

I agree with what has already been said, get some cows that have already had at least one calf. That way you don't have to deal with calving trouble as much. Also personaly I like a cow with a little ear like a brangus or tigerstripe bred to an angus or charlais bull. The only downside is that they can be hard to handle, not all but some are. The most docile and best producing cows I have had have been some beefmaster cross cows. They have the ear without the attitude and always have good milk. I would also get a young set of cows and keep them a few years rather than trade every year because you will know what your cows are like and what kind of calf they will raise. You can still sell them before they get old enough that they start to lose value too much. I am going to have about 25 heavy bred second calf heifers available shortly, they will be brangus and or tigerstripe so you may not be interested in that. Good luck on your cattle purchases whatever you choose to go with.

[lonewolf]

Whatever breed you decide on buy cows not heifers!

[duece24]

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I POSTED HERE!!! thanx guys i really appreciate it. this is the info that i wasn't real sure about. so that i'm clear on this. it is better to get cows that have already had at least one calf..got it. so if i go with cows does the bull i get really matter? can i just get whatever bull i like and i should be okay? levi, why do like a lot of ear? is just the look or is there another reason? levi i'm not sold on any one breed. so pm me and let me know what you are asking for around 3-4 cows.

[dabutcher]

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I POSTED HERE!!! thanx guys i really appreciate it. this is the info that i wasn't real sure about. so that i'm clear on this. it is better to get cows that have already had at least one calf..got it. so if i go with cows does the bull i get really matter? can i just get whatever bull i like and i should be okay? levi, why do like a lot of ear? is just the look or is there another reason? levi i'm not sold on any one breed. so pm me and let me know what you are asking for around 3-4 cows.

from my understanding is that the longer eared breeds are more heat tolerant.  like a brahma or beefmaster.  the f1 tigerstripes and black baldies sell pretty well around here.  i'd check your local auctions and see what's getting better prices for your area breed/cross wise and go from there.  and you definitely want to go with cows not heifers.  i'd look to see if someone doesn't have some cows that are already bred back and buy those.  it's cheaper than buying more open cows at one time.  and then find you a bull.

[catchrcall]

I hate heifers.  If they can find a mudhole or snowbank to have trouble calving in at two in the morning they'll do it.  I agree with going with cows with a calf or two behind them.  I'd also be careful about buying single cows around calving season, they generally are cheaper that way but you don't know why they are being sold.  Could have not accepted her calf, maybe just healed up from a prolapse (yuck), bad milk, fence jumping SOB, or just got on somebody's last nerve for whatever reason. always had good luck with angus and hereford, but that was up north, not down here.

[Tusk Hog]

  My perference would be the charolais bull on cross bred cows, use one on my brangus at times. The Gert cows with a horned hereford bull will produce great calves for replacement heifers. Don't know if I would like the charolais/gert cross or not. Sure might work though. Make sure your gerts are good quality. Some can get hard to handle when in working pens, but not all. A buddy has them and they're some of the easiest cattle I've been around. Good Luck in the cattle business!

[cward]

Man if you plain on staying in the cows and want to keep them around!! Go buy you some hiefers all the same age make sure you buy what fits your land then buy a Corrinte Bull for them for the first year the calfs will hit the ground running!! We tryed this on 50 heifers and palpated.. 47 bred out of 50 with a 100% calf crop on 47 head 1 still born!! Thats good odds in the cow industry!! The second crop swap bulls to what you like!!Still with a low birth wait!!I run Charolais,Brangus,Herford bulls for years!!I have been culling hard on cows and keeping lots of heifers because of the market!!So the only bulls I am running Now is the Brangus and one Full Brahman!!But if you buy cows from a barn remember they age by teeth and the more Brahman in the the younger they show!! I have sold 12 year old cow that they have said were 6 and 7!!! It is alot easier on me to raise heifers all the same age!!! If you never have a cow die then your not in cow business!! If I can be any help let me know!!

[cward]

Oh and if them Gert cows want to act a fool I got a couple of yeller dogs that can set them staight!!! We have learn if you stay a horse back why working them More Brahma infuenced cattle in the pens it goes alot smother!! They just don't like you on 2 legs!!

[Wmwendler]

Duece.......I personally would consider the timing to be wrong to buy into the cow business as the prices are high right now and I hope they stay that way.  It should if the rain keeps coming.  Last year you could have bought them allot cheaper.  If you buy good stock which you should, you could easily spend 25  grand right now by the time you get 20 cows and a bull.   Hiefers can be ok but a pain to get bred again unless they are in good shape and have lots to eat.  but I would buy them as pairs right now, meaning they allready have a calf by thier side.  Ideally you want all calves to be born in Jan, Feb, and March.  That might not be feasable for you to do in your situation but that is the ideal and it does'nt hurt to start of on the right foot even if you start to get a few cows that have calves out of season its still best to have the majority in that time frame.  If your place has allot of woods I would go with a cow that has brahman influence (a lot of "ear"...Brangus, F1 tigerstripe, Santa gertrudus, ect...... as they will brows leaves better than the English breeds.  The brahmans influence also take the heat better.  Be carefull if you buy cows or a bull from the sale barn have them tested for Tric. also get your bull tested for fertility.  Remember a cow should be femine with narrow shoulders and wide hips a bull should be masculine with narrow hips and wide shoulders.  It sounds silly but youd be supprised how often it gets overlooked by people who have ben in the business for all thier life.  A good book on the subject is "Storys guide to raising beef cattle".  I've was raised on cattle all my life and still came away a better cowman after reading it.

CWard.....Thats a dang good turn out on those heifers!  How did you market your corriente cross calves and did you wean em' early?  The real question is how many of them hiefers are going to breed back? . 

Waylon

[cward]

Waylon they faired the winter great and are all calving now; we did not palpate them but they are calving like crazy one died in the winter from unknown cause!! We sold the calfs at 300 weight but Dehorned them as babys!!!You would not beleave the check!!! The bulls were Black and all the heifers were brangus!! There were 3 spotted the rest were solid!! Make me think about buying corrinte cows and putting a Black Limosine Bull!! Dehorn sale a 350 weight!! Run 3 corrinte cows to one beef cow!!! Do the math on todays market!! One steer calf at 550 wieght at an average of 85 cents!!!! One black or solid corrinte cross calf dehorned at 350 weight .average $1.05 TIMES 3!! I have 10 Corrinte cows that I am trying they never came out of the woods all winter not a drop of hay!!!  Why the welfare cows waited to be feed!! All the corrinte cows have solid babys and some of them are spotted!!!If someone would have told me this 3 years ago I would have said they were crazy!!!! The cow bussiness is getting tuff with the price of hay and feed then no good market!!I am in the cow bussiness to make money if I don't make money then I've got to go back to work that would suck!! So I am always thinking ahead!!

Some people have never done the math on hay!!! I buy all my hay do not bail!! It takes for me 2 5x5 rolls per cow for winter!!!
If I hold a 100 acre field for hay bailed 3 times a year that will prduce 450 rolls of hay I pay someone to bail it at $20 a roll then fertilize at $10 that is $30 a roll!!I still pay $13,500 for hay!!!

I buy my hay at $50 a roll delivered to my hay traps!! $50 times 450 is $22,500
I use my 100 acre hay pasture to graze cattle!! 3 acres per cow that will put 30 more head to the herd!! At 550 wieght on there calfs at a $1 a pound is $550 per calf times 30 = $16,500   

$22,500 subtract $16,500 =$6000  Thats what it cost me to feed hay to 230 head of cows!!! Instead of $13,500 and me doing all the work!! All I need is one 65 horse power tractor to put the hay out!!! Thats why I hog hunt all the time!!!! 

[Wmwendler]

Chance.......There is a lot to be said about thriftyness, but running three Corrientes to one beef cow might be a stretch I'll give you two correnties to one good med frame beef cow and beef cow will wean an average of 575lbs at 1.20 to your 350X2=700lbs at .95 (IF they come out black )  and it would be a close race.   I would'tn do much more than THINK about the Correntie cows.  But.....I do like the idea of Correntie bulls on a set of hiefers...if she cant get bred by a corretie bull you know there is something wrong with her....and like you said the calf would hit the ground runnin'


The market is good right now.  Last Saturday at Navasota.....top quality 6 weight steers brought over  1.10.  Should be up again this week.  My Dad bought a bunch of yearlins in January and Febuary some stuff he's gonna send to the feedlot when they were basically giving your lesser quality cattle away and hes hualing a load back to the sale barn they will bring 50% more than what he payed for them just one-two months ago why waste time sending them to the feedlot?  I told him I did'nt know he was a cow trader.

Waylon

[cward]

Oh no Waylon!!!I see your daddy become a Sonny Moore!!!Lol  Did not mean that in a bad way!!

[duece24]

this is some great stuff please keep it coming. as i'm doing as much research as i can and this is truly helping...thanx

[tylermac]

I agree with everyone else, stay away from the heifers. with them you will have to pull more calves and therefore losing more calves and more of your moms. the charlois are good cows not really very  mean but the bull would throw a high birth weight calves so if you do go with heifers i would not get the charlois bull maby and angus or something. on our farm we have angus cows and use charlios bulls to get bigger calves but we dont run any heifers either.

[Wmwendler]

Oh no Waylon!!!I see your daddy become a Sonny Moore!!!Lol  Did not mean that in a bad way!!

Sonny Moore is a cow trader and horse trader too......haha

[GitDatHawg]

  Be carefull if you buy cows or a bull from the sale barn have them tested for Tric.  "quote from Wmwendler"

Learned a good lesson on Tric this year.    Had 7 of our 30 bulls test out for this.  Never had the problem before.   We must have bought some dirty cows from the sale barn.  But it would have been cost prohibitive to get over a 100 cows tested.  One thing to remember is that, and this is what i was told by the vet, that a cow will clean up or get shed of the disease after 2-4 heat cycles.  A bull wont clean up.  Anyways,  we run crossbred cattle on charolais bulls.   I have always learned that you can put a #2 cow with a #1 bull and get a pretty good turnout.   Doesn't work to well the opposite.  Dont go cheap on your bulls, go buy one from a breeder, not the sale barn.