Hunter or Dog ???

[TColt]

I wouldn't say just because I give the hunter more credit than the dog I think too highly of myself. I can see if a dog has hunt or potential and I can break them off cow and horses but I don't truly know how to fine tune a dog into a huntin machine that I want nor do I have the time to. That is why I send a dog to mr mason. If I thought it was all the dog I would not spend the money and time to drive a dog six hours away to have them finely tuned. Mr mason can do more with a dog in a month with a dog than I can in a year. I'm don't disagree that a dog has to have hunt to start with, but I won't buy a dog that doesn't have hunt in the first place. It's the same with horses. I can green break a horse but if I want a horse to be finished I leave that to the professionals. Most horse trainers don't have horses with good blood lines and what not, the people they train for do, unless they are the rare exception with a ton of money.

[make-em-squeel]

I agree crackerc, although I think more handlers mess up dogs than help them. Patiance is a virtue, I see so many people expecting to much out of pups. If people would just be quiet, patiant, and let there pack do the teaching not them or just cull when necessarry
 

[coach]

Go back and look up the pedigree on some of those pro ball players and most of them have had someone play in college or the bigs. 

[3-Bdogs]

that's what im sayin coach lol

[BigAinaBuilt]

How far are we looking back? Until they were wild and hungry scavengers?

The reason ball players like "champion" bloodlines are more prone to success is due to this exact thought, The parents raise the child in this enviorment and give him the neccessary tools to succeed within. Due to its blood the dog from Parents A will be brought up in a more enriched enviorment compared to the pound puppy who "could have a chance".

[3-Bdogs]

look at all the folks who put out thousands to get their kid to go pro and not make the cut they have the opportunity and privileges and don't make it explain that to me im not arguin that they won't get good just that there is a big gap between good and jam up plus i stated earlier i think its 50/50 one the dog that has the potential to be good then second the person who lets the dog release it... i have a dog right now that i would like to see someone train if they could get it done then i will pay and send all my dogs to them and retract all my statements and give the hunter more credit to this topic i know what your sayin and your correct the hunter has to give the dog the opportunity but the dog also has to want to be there that is why i say its 50 50 

[leonriverboy]

I say 80/20 dog it's easy to train a dog to find pigs, if the dog has game.  Bottom line start with a gamie dog and hunt him often with finished dogs that hunt your style and make sure you hunt them where the pigs are.

[Mike]

You can't "make" a dog hunt or "train" a dog to hunt... the hunting drive is either in them or it isn't. All we can do is expose them and refine their skills.

[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

Like the ole sayin, You cant turn a jackass into a quarterhorse.... Well the majority of hog dogs have it in their blood when they are born..It does however take a man to hunt the pup from day one with other good strike dogs to get the puppy headed in the right direction...In my personal opinion the dog handler or hunter can put the handle on the dog but cant hardly put the hunt in the dog if it aint already there.  But I can also say that I can take a weenee dog in a area that has tons of hogs and make that dog shine like a new dime, but its when you have a dog that will make a hog in areas where there are hardly any there, thats when you know you have a one of a kind HOG DOG

[hog428]

Today I went hunting got a nice boar coming out I ran into the man I was speaking of in the beginning of this discussion and we sat down and talked remember this man is an elder around here 74 years young he told me he has been hunting since the late 40s still walk hunts O ya he had a boar on his 43 willies three dogs you would Laugh at if you dident know who he was  mix match I asked him what they were  hummmmmm this one cocker shepherd a little lab and the dog from next door poodle x this is what he said Im not joking when I looked at the boar he was a monster you could see old dog bites on him so you know some one else had failed to stop him his dogs were cut not bad he said he never had a blood line dog in his life A guy named  Carswell from Texas  brought in cattle and the bmc and some cats this was in the 70s those two blood lines run in most of our lines today even mine but for him all dog pound  he stills says 70\30 man over dog  he said the only dogs he ever had were dogs nobody wanted and its a know fact around here nobody has slammed more boars than the old man with his dog pound dogs

[make-em-squeel]

Thats interesting hog428 and you cant dis-credit and old dog man walk hunting and getting it done at that age! He is probably the exception like mr mason, my guess is they can hunt more than me as well. I just see my friend bob line breed curs and rarely hunt them b/c of his job but his dogs look like pro's there 1st time in the woods so my opinion is the dog cant be taught to hunt its in them....however we can help them hunt better, and there are obvious exceptional dog men who can train dogs but the "mr mason's" are not the avg.  Just my.02 I think more handlers mess up dogs. Good topic

[TColt]

Like I said at the begining of my post, the dog either has it or he doesn't. Just like a person either has a 90 + fastball or they don't. But there is alot more 90+ arms that don't make it to the bigs due to bad coachin or injuries than the ones who make it. I never denied that you have to have raw talent to start with, but in my opinion there is alot more to it than that.

[Bryant]

You can't "make" a dog hunt or "train" a dog to hunt... the hunting drive is either in them or it isn't. All we can do is expose them and refine their skills.

That about sums it up right there. 

I've often wondered when people talk about "training" a hog hunting dog just what they mean?  All I've ever done is take good bred stock to the woods and give them the opportunity to train THEMSELVES.  Dogs learn by working with one another, by repetition and by their own mistakes and other than needing a ride to the woods, none of that really involves me.

I think most "training" people think they're doing with their dogs is more hindering than anything else.  Now let me also say that I will agree that handle and trashbreaking can take a human hand but to me thats all secondary.  I want to see some hunt first and if the dog won't hunt, why bother with the rest?

[Cutter Bay Kennels]

Interesting thread. I agree with most posts, the dog has to have it inside, to make a good dog, no matter who owns it. But, a better trainer/handler can bring out the potential better than a poor trainer/handler. And trainers/handlers have ruined a train load of dogs by lack of knowledge/experience.

I once got a pup from someone who supposedly had good dogs. Silent, cold nosed, medium range dogs that would stay bayed all night. Well, I am always looking for something better than what I am hunting so I had to have one. I had a litter of my own at the same time, of which I kept two pups. I raised the outside pup with the two I bred. Same kennels, same feed, handled the same, started the same, hunted the same. I fed the new dog two YEARS and it never barked at a hog...not once.  It wasn't afraid of the hogs, would follow you to a bay and stand there and wag its tail like it was happy your other dogs caught the hog. By other dogs I mean the two pups I bred that were the same age as this dog...........

So it wasn't the trainer or environment, it was the dog that was lacking in this case. It just didn't have the desire to hunt/bay. It wouldn't even run a hog that you turned out on with the dog looking at it. Needless to say that dog/blood is no longer on my yard...........

But on the other hand I would bet I could take the best hog dog on this board and in less than a month, break it off hogs entirely..........not that I would want to, but just an example of the influence a trainer/handler could have on a dog.

I agree.

[hog428]

I lean more towards blood line but I know for a fact! that if the old man was in tour neck of the woods he would be putting the wood to your boars with his dog pound dogs I think he see's the dogs need to please and works off of that    jmo

[bigo]

Some folks are born with a gift of being able to get animals to give them all they have to give. If they keep good bred dogs, hunt hard and cuul hard, they seem to allways hunt outstanding dogs. Thenthere is the guy that couldn't train a lion to eat raw meat. HE could take the first guys best dog and hunt him a couple of months and have him looking pretty average.

[BarrNinja]

You can't "make" a dog hunt or "train" a dog to hunt... the hunting drive is either in them or it isn't. All we can do is expose them and refine their skills.

This is the bottom line in my book and something I learned as a kid hunting beagles. If a dog wont hunt I cant be bothered with it because I have never been able to make a dog hunt.

I agree that handle is what you train. Not hunt. Handle has to be trained for control if nothing else. Especially in some of the places we have to hunt our dogs these days.
A good bread dog that can find a hog as good as any out there can sure make a hunt suck for a whole lot of reasons if you cant control it.

[Drue]

I agree with crackerc. I raised three littermates at the same exact time, worked all three together and got them on hogs together. Two turned out real good, rolled out on there on and became independent on there on. The other one, I kept taking and putting on hogs and she just (so far) aint making what I like to see in a dog.
Don't get me wrong I don't think you can turn a dog out and set on the tail gate and drink a beer and make a dog (until after they make) the hunter in my opion has got to get down in the woods, creeks etc. and get a dog started in the right way, but whether the dog is going to pick up on the game and run with it is up to the dog.

[Monteria]

You can't "make" a dog hunt or "train" a dog to hunt... the hunting drive is either in them or it isn't. All we can do is expose them and refine their skills.

That about sums it up right there. 

I've often wondered when people talk about "training" a hog hunting dog just what they mean?  All I've ever done is take good bred stock to the woods and give them the opportunity to train THEMSELVES.  Dogs learn by working with one another, by repetition and by their own mistakes and other than needing a ride to the woods, none of that really involves me.

I think most "training" people think they're doing with their dogs is more hindering than anything else.  Now let me also say that I will agree that handle and trashbreaking can take a human hand but to me thats all secondary.  I want to see some hunt first and if the dog won't hunt, why bother with the rest?

I think its 50/50.

50% breeding, and 50% me not do iting it up! 

Steve

[cantexduck]

Get a good pup and give it to me. I will find a way to mess it up.


Bryant- Dont you drag hogs for your pups? Or let them bay at one in a pen?