Dog training question, need advice

[Cull Buck]

I hope you guys can give me a few pointers.  I have a blue lacy that's almost a year old and he has lots of drive and has been hunting real good for me.  He has found and bayed 5 of his own hogs in the last month which has me pumped but he seems to only show interest in entering the woods when he can wind a hog.  I noticed this on saturday.  He had found and caught two small shoats so we tied them and used them for training.  I would drag it across the road into the woods and tie off to a tree.  We would start down the road and everytime he would put his nose to the ground where we had put the hog on the ground and he would look off into the woods then decide to continue working down the road.  I don't get it.  He obviously smelled it on the ground but he didn't have confidence to follow the smell.  Same thing happened on another occasion, he walked about 15 yards down a trail, and stopped but this time he held his nose up into the wind, took off and found it.  Thinking back on it the other pigs he has found while we where hunting were all winded with his nose up at a 45 degree angle.  I've never seen him smell the ground and take off. 

Does anybody have any tips on training him to have more enough confidence with smell on the ground?  Common sense tells me that an older dog showing him the ropes would help but I don't have alot of access to other dogs all of the time so I'm looking tips on things I can do.  Do I just need to give him more time in the woods before I start expecting too much???

Thanks! 

[uglydog]

Have you ever googled directions to get somewhere? then looked at a map to see you can save yourself  30 minutes drive time taking an easier route?

That is what you dog is doing, cutting off that extra unneccessary time.

So why do you want him to smell Dirt instead of going to the hog?

If I wanted that kind of dog I think I would get me a bloodhound.

Most dogs will trail if they need too, but I would be perfectly happy if your dog is finding hogs

[Cull Buck]

UG, I think you missed my point.  I think its great when we winds the hog but my question was about when I can clearly see him pick up the smell on the ground and you can tell he recognizes it but he fails to act on it.  I completely understand that I'm dealing with a hot nosed cur dog but when the smell on the ground is fresh enough for him to smell it I expect him to follow it or least start doing wide circles trying to pick up the wind.  At his point I think its a confidence issue with him.  He smells the ground, perks up a little bit, looks directly off into the woods in the correct direction but if he can't wind it from the general area he is currectly standing, he says screw it, lets move on.

[capt jack]

for being only a year old, it sounds like he is doing excellant. my 2 cents is he needs more time in the woods. i think i would give him time to get his feet on the ground. you have the makings of a great strike dog.

[uglydog]

yes I did miss the point. Sorry.

Keep doing what your doing, putting him on hogs that will build his confidience, he is the only one that can take it from there.  You done your part by putting him where hogs are, the rest he will work out for himself.

[Jeff]

this is the cliff's notes version of how tracking training is done in schutzhund (similar to police dog traingin):

get you a bottle of boar scent, a fresh hide, or a small pig - the live pig being best.  if you use a pig or a hide, wet it down



on flat, open ground with no brush, make a short drag, no more than 10 feet at first.  every six inches along the track, set a small piece of hot dog, or some soft treat that can be eaten quickly.  put a small pile of treats at the end of the track. it's called the "jackpot".  it's a form of reward.  later on, a live hog at the end of the track will take place of the treats as his reward.

show him the 1st treat and watch him work.  it wont take 2 minutes, of course, b/c he'll see the treats. only do it once a day.  don't rush him.

2nd day: make the track 20 feet long, with treats every foot. always put a jackpot on the end.

3rd day: 30 feet track,  treats every 2 feet

4th day: 40 foot track, treats every 4 feet



5th day: add light brush or weeds, and slight zig-zags.  60 foot track, treats every 10 feet

6th day: lay the track, then wait 1 hour before you put him on it.

make it slightly more difficult each session.  either add length, or sharper zig-zags, or more brush each time, but not all 3 at once.  when he reaches a stumbling block, and he will, back up to the most recent successful session and let him practice building confidence.  keep raising the difficulty level until he's tracking as far as you want him to, on a track as old as you want him to take.  if you're hunting small tracts, a 2 hour track that's a few hundred yards should be more than enough.  

once he's started, he might increase distance and track age on his own, however, i once had an old military bloodhound trainer tell me you could always tell who the lazy trainers were by the way their dogs worked.  their dogs would follow a track 1 mile and then quit, like they had a built in odometer.  you don't have to train this every day, but you'll get it done quicker if you can.

keep in mind im no expert - hope this helps.

[Jeff]

this is something i like to do with puppies.  they can be pretty good trackers before they're ever old enough to go to the baypen.  just be patient with them, and it will become a fun game to them, which makes training a lot easier.

you can also start them winding by putting a pig in a cage upwind and not laying a track at all.  if you dont leave a jackpot, just pet and praise a lot when they find it.

90 percent of your training is now done (besides obedience, which should also be done at this stage), and he's not even old enough to hunt. 

when he's ready, get in 2 or 3 good trips to the baypen, and all that's left is woods time.

[Mike]

Richard, keep doing what you're doing.

It will come with time or may never come. There's lot's dogs out that hunt like he is... and never put there nose on the ground. Just because his nose isn't on the ground, he can still smell the track. These type of dogs usually work a lot faster and get to the hog faster.

At a year old he's doing fine... keep him in the woods!

[txboardog]

Cullbuck  I agree with the rest of the guys and girls just keep him in the woods . at a year old and already finding his own hogs is good even if its just running into one every now and then just keep hunting him and sooner or later a hog will break bay and leave the dog wondering which way he went then thats when your dog will discover how to use his nose on the ground and he will get better and better after he works a few out on his own and catches up with the hog. I see this alot when working pups without an older dog there to do the hard part for them. I like to hunt my pups with a old dog for a few times to kind of show them the ropes and then take just the pups without an old dog and let them have all the weight an there shoulders for a few times and get few hogs under their belts for theirselves , it just builds confidence for them and gets better and better.  Just my 2 cents hope this helps .

[Cull Buck]

Thanks for the advice fellas.  We are going to keep at it and see how he progresses.   

Here's a picture of two little shoats he struck and eventually caught Saturday morning. He also struck and bayed a 120 lb sow Friday evening that my brother shot but we forgot the camera at home for that one.  In every instance, he stopped on a dime, throw his nose up into the air and shot off into the woods like a heat seak missle.

[clint]

He's only a year old,, i think if he gets a little older and gets more confidence he will begin to track them up and go to the hogs

[cantexduck]

 Richard, how do you like that sportdog collar? R looks good!!! Wanna trade out..............

[Cull Buck]

I like the collar.  No problems at all.  I haven't had to use it the last couple times out.  He doesn't like the zap one bit.