your opinions of why we cross the way we do...

[Derek]

I'm not a hog hunter, I'm a cat hunter so I can't comment on the types of dogs y'all are looking to produce.  I will say that within a specific line of dogs of any breed it is very difficult to consistently produce "good" dogs even with tight line breeding.  That being said it doesn't seem to me that it would be very probably that you would consistently get "good" dogs in just 7 breedings or less when creating basically a new breed.  It probably depends on how strictly you judge your dogs abilities. IMO many people who are producing litters and not culling many are probably not evaluating their dogs honestly for one reason or another (in general, not directed at anyone).  IMO, if you are not culling hard you are not helping any of the existing breeds or crosses.  This means culling because you have hunted hard and not seen the traits you want, not culling because the dog is the wrong color or doesn't have a bob tail, etc...But since I don't hunt these types of dogs I could be wrong, just stating an opinion from a different point of view.
I do think that if you are trying to produce a new breed or strain or whatever that there are enough hunters on this site and others with similar goals so that some of you should get together and share the breeding and evaluating.  This stuff takes time to do it correctly and ten of you working together on crosses could do it a lot faster than one.  That would also allow dogs to be evaluated in different areas and different terrain.
Derek

[Cutter Bay Kennels]

Great post for the most part.  It is always important to start your program off with the best that is out there. 

[BigAinaBuilt]

Okay that what gets me, as the math end of breeding don't natch up to abilty to point out/reproduce traits, as being 100%, I don't know if what I am saying makes any sense, Forget about breeds  just for a minute, you had 2 dogs for your baseline that all have similiar traits, styles, (not talking about appearance) but good physical attributes that also contribute to hunting abilities as stamina, ect., If you were trying to create a dog, that absolute what you wanted (close to perfect in your opinion) Can you do it in seven generations to reproduce consistant offspring that match the original two specimens? if the can consistant reproduce the same thing then can you create a "new breed" in 7 generations, is point where I am trying to get too?

You could very well create your own breed but the throwbacks from previous generations will always show up and you would have to also cull those traits if they were unwanted. The single most common throwback is when you watch a dog lay and it "smashes the grass back" before laying, This trait has been passed down for 1000's of generations and been ignored so it has become "built in".

Boarninja- I enjoy the conversation and oppurtunity to discuss dogs with everyone and in no way am trying to prove myself as much as bring up different scenerios, If my postings have "ruffled your feathers" I just want to say it wasn't posted with that intent.

[BarrNinja]

Boarninja- I enjoy the conversation and oppurtunity to discuss dogs with everyone and in no way am trying to prove myself as much as bring up different scenerios, If my postings have "ruffled your feathers" I just want to say it wasn't posted with that intent.

Don’t worry about me. I never took anyone’s comments personnel and Im one of the last people you can riel on this board. This has been a great thread all the way around! I was a little concerned (after reading what I had posted) that I would get blasted but it never came! Lol. I was a little surprised because subjects like this can really get some of us tough guy hog hunters panties in a wad! lol
Threads like this on this board are my favorite. If you go back and check them all, you may find only one or two short comments total in all of them from me. I try to learn something when I can from them.
I said what I said so folks would know where I am coming from is all. I probably come across a little abrasive or blunt on this subject sometimes but that’s just because of my own failures with breeding and I just threw them out there.

And BigAinaBuilt, your math is no better than mine! Mine never adds up right either! lol.................................Post on people

[Purebreedcolt]

Man this is a long thread lol I have a question.  If u line breed u have to start somewhere right and it is said in here start with the best.  But early on in the thread it seemed like people were saying the f1 cross may be good but latter breedings will not be so much so if this is so where do u start and yes know this is a nubie ? But I'm about half confused

[BigAinaBuilt]

I would look at the dogs great great grandparents abilities and drive and go from there, Run the dog 2 -3 times a week until 3 years old and then make a judgement call as to whether it is breed worthy. Breed it to a dog of the same caliber or better and cull the litter hard according what you plan to produce in the future. With that being said keep in mind how honest and straight forward some people can be about their dogs and how everyones expectaions will differ so if possible watch the parents work in a few different scenerios.

[Bryant]

Purebreedcolt,

The purpose of linebreeding should never be to produce better dogs than you start with.  Simply put, the objective is to narrow the gene pool so that you can control (somewhat) the consistancy of what your producing.  Ask anybody who claims to have a linebred program, and they should be able to quickly tell you the dog who the line is based on, and which sets the standard for what that line should be.

People forget that when you cross two unrelated dogs, your not breeding only those two but also all the generations behind them.  Say for instance you have a real good male dog and you choose to breed him but keep in mind the fact that 3/4 of his past relatives are sorry.  Even though that dog is good, that's still an awful lot of "sorry" to be breeding.

[BigAinaBuilt]

Bryant- So If you planned to create your own line how far back into the lineage would you look in order to determine whether the dog would be breed worthy to be the foundation of your linebreeding program?

[Bryant]

Bryant- So If you planned to create your own line how far back into the lineage would you look in order to determine whether the dog would be breed worthy to be the foundation of your linebreeding program?

If I were able to trace the lineage of a certain dog for many generations, I personally wouldn't start breeding the dog and try to label it "my" line of dogs.  I think this happens a lot.

When breeding dogs, my intent would never be to create my own line, rather perhaps to try and re-create a certain dog.  The more history you know the better, but you can start blind with a breeding as long as your honest with youself in evaluating the progeny.

[make-em-squeel]

Personal preferance. There are as many catchy bmc as cat period. I know severel. I think for going with the highest percentage of having a cross catch you should go with the lacy b/c they are such gritty little turds, and close ranged like i perfer a bulldog. However the (lacy/pit) i owned was just like a gritty cur so i moved him to a guy who's hunting style he fit.

 But I know 5 Bmc off the top of my head right now that would straight catch if you kept them on lead, odds are crossed to a bulldog you would get the same results.