So let's get real about Dogos...

[La Historia Dogo]

The footage I have is not internet material, I have spoken to people that were present at the testing of the footage I have seen and I know that these puma were intact. I think the puma video on the net is a 9-12month old dogo. Not sure about the claws. As for the curled tusk not cutting, I don't know what normally happens but I can assure you this boar did damage. Both with pokes bites and just general wrestling. As a matter of fact, it killed a dog that was put up against it.  As I said, this is not footage that will be shared as it is not mine to do so.  The point was, I have seen video of dogos being tested as hard, if not harder than other breeds. Also I have spoken to people who first hand have been at these sessions.  Believe it or not, an adult puma of 60-70 kilos against a dogo will need to use his back legs more for balance, than the "gutting" most people think that they do.  Obviously each animal differs, but if the dogo has the right drive, the pressure that he/she will bring to the puma will force it to not use its hind legs in that manner otherwise it will give up much more vulnerable parts of its body through a lack of balance. The back of the neck and head will be easier for the dogo to grab.

Also that is the point of the dogo to fight its prey, not just hang on. Think about a chess match. When you are constantly on the defensive you typically don't do well offensively. Same in this situation, a Dogo should constantly be pushing its prey, so that they aren't working on banging the dogo up, just trying to stay alive. Like a puma trying to protect its neck and head isn't going to be thinking about killing the dogo.  Plus wild animals typically are flight animals, since they need to live another day, not like a dog, who will be taken home or to the vet to be fixed and have time to recoup. More self preservation.

Side note: Its 103 degrees in NY, not gonna need to adjust the dogs to climate lol.

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

Pen testing has almost nothing to do with hunting and provides us with a poor way to judge dogs.  The catch is the last thing in a long list. Many big dogs can engage and hold a boar in a pen, I am most concerned with the skills a dog has that gets him within catching range on a good boar.

[cantexduck]

I can search google there fore I am an expert. If that offends you then it was ment for you.




I 100% disagree with the pit statement. You must have not been around many of them.


  
Pen testing is like bay pen dogs to me. You cant judge by what you see in a pen if you are talking about hunting dogs.

[Ladogos]

Here are my responses to the statements you've heard.

Dogos were bred for an all purpose hunting dog.-----I would say partially true.  All purpose as in they were bred to find and catch large game, primarily boar and puma. And also expected to be a guardian for their farms and properties, sometimes were even used as cattle dogs.

Dogos catch wherever and sometimes chew up a hog.----I have yet to see a dogo "chew up" a hog, I would say a dogo might catch wherever to stop running prey, but will more often catch head on, if given the opportunity.

Dogos arent tested as hard b/c traditionally they were bred to run and catch in packs so each dog gets pressured less when on a rough hog.-----Do some searching of the video that the creator used to introduce the dogo to the "general public", I wouldn't say that his testing wasn't that hard.  I have seen plenty of video footage of dogos fighting with adult INTACT puma/mtn lion, and 350+lb Jabali(boar), not the type of boar to just sit back and wait for the dog to be broken off, the type of boar to FIGHT. A Jabali with tusks that were so long they started to curl around.

Dogos are slow to mature and the breed are far and few btx when it comes to finding working quality dogs.-----Slow to mature is relative to the owner and the breeds the owner has worked with. It all depends on how you raise them, but being that they have many large breed dogs in their makeup, they are not physically grown up til 2, but I would say that they can be solid hunting dogs by 1.  I don't think its hard to find working dogos, or show dogos. But it is hard to find both in the same dog.

Dogos are not tested to the standards that the founders intended b/c they are not used the same way in this country.-----I would say I agree that the creators would not have used the dogo this way, but feel the need to add "in their country" to that statement.  Lots of people here catch LOTS of HOGS running dogos and other breeds, in the manner they do.  And for out terrain, and not to mention PROPERTY LINES, it seems to be the efficient way to go.  As a breed enthusiast, its not the way to PRESERVE the dogo, but it may refine certain lines to be the americanized hunter necessary for american hunters.


Dub:
 As I was typing I see you posted...I have run my dogos in South Florida with no problems in July and August with no problems. I do let them drink as much water as they want, and I appreciate the reminder. I am thinking about how to bring pails of water with my, but I usually just bring bottles and a bowl.
I have never needed to train a dogo to catch anything. And as their creators have written, their primary training should be that of accepting the animals you want them to.  They are bred to have an inate aggression with other animals, and any animal you want them to be cordial with, they need ALOT of socialization. I don't want to start a bloodlines conversation, but am always interested in how specific blood works for different people, so if you don't mind emailing me about that dogo you are working its Lahistoriadogo@aol.com.  I think sometimes others scare people into too much training with dogos. Maybe some exposure, but for me if you want to see if a dogo has it, just let it up against a boar that will FIGHT it. If the dogo doesn't want to fight it, then you have a problem.  Then the only thing I would do, is give the dogo praise for things you want it to attack.  Getting them to attack should be the easy part, getting them trash broken should be the harder part.  Once you let them know that they are allowed to go after something specific, believe me, they will be searching there asses off to find that fight that you don't punish them for.

I did see that video or a video I should say. It was in black and white. I didn't see any type of testing that personally knocked my socks off in the one I saw. Mabe you should post it to make sure we saw the same one. I did see some testing on Puma in a video once, but it was on a declawed adolescent. One of the ones I saw on a hog the dog nearly pulled the hogs lip off. Also if a hogs tusks are curling over they aren't cutting tusks.

X 2   Curling tusk are WAY less dangerous than those 2 inch sticking straight out tusk .

[La Historia Dogo]

I can search google there fore I am an expert. If that offends you then it was ment for you.




I 100% disagree with the pit statement. You must have not been around many of them.


  
Pen testing is like bay pen dogs to me. You cant judge by what you see in a pen if you are talking about hunting dogs.

Seems a little passive to me, might as well just call out who you are trying to.

I really don't have a clue who you are directing any of what you just posted but since I am in this thread, I will respond. If not then you should have been more specific.

1. None of my dogo, or hunting lessons come from google, or the internet for that matter. It comes from people with experience that I directly speak/hunt/work with.
2. I didn't have anything to say about pits and couldn't find where anyone else said anything negative about them.
3. I agree 100% about pen testing. I didn't pen test any of my dogs, until all sorts of people who claimed to have knowledge in this field, suggested I was going at hunting ass backwards.

Its interesting how some people comment on only the parts that they want to rip apart. As for the tusk length, it was just to give reference to age and the fact that they weren't cut off or broken. The point was that the boar was a fight and a dog killer, and thats how these dogos were tested.

The internet is a great tool, but unfortunately people use it to argue way too much. It sure is easy to be a jackass behind a keyboard. And if that offends you....

Paul: I agree about pen testing, thats primarily why I don't waste time and resources doing it. But the person was saying dogos aren't tested as hard as other breeds.

I am done. Internet arguements are so draining. I hate repeating myself over and over again. And it makes it even worse when there are people that are just sitting behind their computer instigating.  Anyone who has anything to ask me or say to me, my phone number is 631-680-7347 and my email is Lahistoriadogo@aol.com

Still looking forward to meeting up for a hunt in a few weeks Noah, I will let you know when I am back!

[Circle C]

La Historia,


   Don't sweat the the haters.

  You have taken more time to answer questions, and it seems that you have been under a microscope on this thread, when there are three or four other dogo breeders that have posted, yet not taken the time to answer many of the questions posted on this thread. Not that it amounts to anything, but I have more respect for you after reading your responses to this thread, than I did before. simply because you have taken the time to explain where you are coming from, and what your goals are.

   The problem I see is that people have entirely different expectations of a Dogo. Some want a hunting dog, some want a catch dog, and some want both.

   You don't have that same issue with AB's and pits, as I would argue that most use them strictly as catch dogs, and they rely on curs or hounds to do the hunting.

    I think in time you will see a division within the breed, if there is not already one, where some lines are catch dogs, and some are hunting dogs. Then the consumer can have an easier time knowing where to locate the dogo that fits their needs. 

 

[Reuben]

CircleC,

I do believe you got it right.

La Historia,

You did good... Also, I like the fact that you have clear goals as to what you are trying to breed, and I don't mean the word "TRYING" in a bad way but in the way of working toward breeding a better DOGO....

[duece24]

I agree with circle c..la historia u have taken the time to answer most all of the questions asked. U have also taken a lot of heat thru this thread and several other threads. If there was a kudos button u would get it simply because u have stood ur ground steadfast with good support.

Hopefully one day I will get to hunt behind one of ur dogos.

[cantexduck]

Dogo.   Not directed to you at all. You have taken the time to reply to the posts.

[La Historia Dogo]

I appreciate the kind words guys. If/as you get to know me, you will be reassured of how I stand my ground. But I also try to absorb when it is necessary. As for many other dogo breeders, I have yet to see any of them put a REAL opinion in any thread about dogos. I actually spoke to a dogo breeder, one whose been breeding the for a very long time here in the U.S.(though he has had his kennel based in other countries, according to his website) he said he stays away from message boards because theres too much politics. But on the other hand, how can you educate and in turn learn, without sharing, and the web is the fastest widespread way to do it.
  I do have very specific goals with my dogos and the breed in general. And unfortunately if the dogo splits between a hunting dogo and a catch dogo, then there will be three different 'strains' of dogos, the show one too. I always enjoy talking dogo and will continue to, just making my thumbs tired typing on this phone.

Cantexduck:

I appreciate the clarification, but you got my .o2c anyway, lol.

[Scott]

One thing about pen testing and catchdogs...if done correctly, it can tell you everything you need to know about a bulldogs heart quick, fast and in a hurry.


I hunted with few good dogos over the years and seen more than enough culls. IMO the good ones aren't as plentiful as some would have you believe.

[dub]

She wants the hog it is just not letting her get whipped too hard. It is less training and more holding her back for the right opportunity. The breeding came from bryant. I am not sure what he used. All I know is that she is half American Bull I believe from an old line, and half Dogo. I love her personality and hope she becomes a great dog. But if she decides not to hunt even my wife said she has a place in our house. But she shows lots of desire and really wants to get a hog. But if you want to know more about her uglydog would know much better than me.

[make-em-squeel]

Make-em-squeel:

what does...catch like a bulldog, mean?

Can you describe the differences in which your dogos have caught in comparisson to your bulldogs? 

For me, the problem with some lines of dogos is that they don't feel the dogo should be as game as a bulldog. Therein lies the problem, and thats why people such as yourself feel that pits catch better than dogos.

As some others have said, the purpose of the dogo is to have one breed to do it all. The creators of this breed intended on breeding a dog capable of finding and catching Jabali weighing 200kilos'400+lbs'

How often do any of us come across a 400lber?

Many also forget the other main prey for the dogo, since we cannot hunt them as easily, but the dogo should be able to catch and subdue an adult mountain lion'puma'. I wish I had the opportunity. Saw some 'panther crossin' signs near our new home, maybe we will accidently find out?

Thanks for the gear reccomendations,  I will be looking into them very soon.

What i meant by catching like a bulldog is that I use mine as a lead in cd and the ones i have culled in the past did not fit that bill/ they were hard hunting dogs and would catch anything under 200 lbs but would fight and bay a big bad boar, especially if they were tired. The one i have now is straight catch on anything and has great lungs when needed, that is what suites me, however i dont think the others were bad dogs but not typical for what the avg "american hog hunter" is raising a bulldog/mastiff for.

[Crib]

Believe it or not, an adult puma of 60-70 kilos against a dogo will need to use his back legs more for balance, than the "gutting" most people think that they do.  Obviously each animal differs, but if the dogo has the right drive, the pressure that he/she will bring to the puma will force it to not use its hind legs in that manner otherwise it will give up much more vulnerable parts of its body through a lack of balance. The back of the neck and head will be easier for the dogo to grab.

Also that is the point of the dogo to fight its prey, not just hang on. Think about a chess match. When you are constantly on the defensive you typically don't do well offensively. Same in this situation, a Dogo should constantly be pushing its prey, so that they aren't working on banging the dogo up, just trying to stay alive. Like a puma trying to protect its neck and head isn't going to be thinking about killing the dogo.  Plus wild animals typically are flight animals, since they need to live another day, not like a dog, who will be taken home or to the vet to be fixed and have time to recoup. More self preservation.

Thanks for the response. 10-4 on the video, I can only go on what i saw so far. One key thing you mentioned, its a dogos job to fight rather than catch, which supports what my hunter friends say that they tear up the hogs. A bulldog gets on a hog by the head and goes to sleep. To catch it not fight. In anycase, hats off for working your dogs and pursuing a structured plan to better your breed. How do you plan to run your dogs? As walk in and release or the Argentinan way?

[Noah]

Now we're getting down to the good stuff!!! 

La Historia, you did great... I warned you you were swimming with sharks 'round here.....   I look forward to hunting with you, lots of good conversation ahead...

I think CircleC hit the nail on the head about the split in styles of US bred dogos...

[duece24]

It's odd to me that the point keeps being brought up that dogos "fight" the hogs. From my experience the are the exact opposite. They don't fight the hog they hit hold and closetheir eyes. No shaking ripping or tearing. The bulldogs I've walkEd behind they hit then begin shaking pulling tearing. Even my young dogo will hit and she is then she is just caught. There isn't any fighting of the hog at least from the ones I've been behind.

[hoghunterdfw]

It's odd to me that the point keeps being brought up that dogos "fight" the hogs. From my experience the are the exact opposite. They don't fight the hog they hit hold and closetheir eyes. No shaking ripping or tearing. The bulldogs I've walkEd behind they hit then begin shaking pulling tearing. Even my young dogo will hit and she is then she is just caught. There isn't any fighting of the hog at least from the ones I've been behind.

X2. Don't know what this business with dogos fighting hogs is all about but the good ones I have seen are also catch and hold, and the hogs are NEVER all tore up unless you let your cur dogs bite the !@#$ out of the hogs hammys, and under the armpit areas cuz you took forever to get to the bay or you are running too many curs on the ground.

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

I agree on the "fighting" of the hog, I have never seen it and for that matter don't want to see it ever in my dogs. La Historia is a very green hunter and he will learn the difference. Some Dogo breeders throw that term around like they are proud of it when it is a detriment in the mind of most hunters ( could be a translation issue ). When I get to a caught hog that a Dogo has been holding for some time I would expect to break them off and find one single set of canine holes in the ear of that hog, no re-gripping minimal shaking.

[Noah]

Sure would like to hear some "authentic" opinions... I know there's some Argentinians that are watching this....

It's got to piss you off watching foreigners try to "define" your country's dog....  it would me.

[Scott]

Sure would like to hear some "authentic" opinions... I know there's some Argentinians that are watching this....

It's got to piss you off watching foreigners try to "define" your countrie's dog....  it would me.

It is my understanding that the majority of hunters over in Argentina run mixed packs. There are a few that run str8 dogos, but they are not in the majority.