Opinions wanted - On catchdogs performance

[Cull Buck]

This is about one of my catchdogs and this scenario played out over the weekend.  I'm open to any and all opinions.  I will not take a offense to any comments.  The reason I put this up here is because I still consider myself new to the sport (only been dogging about 5-6 yrs) and definately new to owning a catchdog.  We would always bay/shoot until I got my first catchdog about 1.5 yrs ago.  I'm not asking because I'm not sure what to do with the dog.  I like him and I'm gonna keep him but I'm curious to see if my catchdog bar is set lower than others or maybe not. 

Here's the scenario.....I have a catchdog that I've owned since a pup and he is now almost 2 yrs old.  His probably caught 80-100 hogs in his life.  In that time frame he has only had a few minor cuts and one decent poke on his front leg.  This past weekend I sent him in a very respectable boar and it smashed him up real good.  I heard him hit and then heard a dog start screaming bloody murder so we sent in another CD.  While the dogs are fighting the hog about 15 yards away I run to check out the screaming dog and find my CD sitting on butt spinning in circles, screaming like a girl, and looking at his back leg.  I instantly see a huge rip up the front of his back leg, almost in the guts and over the hip.  I grabbed him, looked it over real quick and determined it wasn't life threatning.  I slapped some sense into him real quick and sent him back on to the hog.  He ran right in and caught out until we had it killed. 

Would any of you bulldogs guys consider this dog a cull???  He did quit but he went right back in and helped seal the deal.  I don't consider this dog a soft dog by any means and has never showed any kind of response to pain until this happened. I don't know if he ever had an ear the first time so I don't know if he let go.  I do know that he stopped his pursuit because of his wound.

[Circle C]

I do know that he stopped his pursuit because of his wound.

I grabbed him, looked it over real quick and determined it wasn't life threatning.  I slapped some sense into him real quick and sent him back on to the hog.

These two comments leave me questioning the dog. In an ideal world, I don't want a catch dog to think about self preservation.  I have often said the day Tyson quits a hog, is the day he is no longer a catch dog. I haven't been in that position yet, so I can't say how I will feel if it ever actually happens.

[Circle C]

BTW,

   I too am interested to hear what some of the more experienced members have to say about this subject.

[Nickjones]

Im not sure that i would cull him, but i would never go hunting with just him. I have never had a catch dog get cut in the ass or the gut. Just chest and front shoulders. And my dogs dont catch anything but an ear. If that is how he is he might have not even had a chane to catch. I dont believe i would hate him for it if it was that bad of a cut. Jmo

[aladatrot]

CullBuck,

Would you walk in on the next hog with 100% confidence that dog is going to be caught?

Cheers
M

A dog can get cut there if he hits the ear from head on and the hog is dog-smart. The hog can get his snout under the dog's body and a tusk can hang on the flank or rear leg. This is what got Meat Head in the end. What I believe to be the same hog did Clay's Jug dog two or three weeks later. Luckily that hog is no more.
m

[djhogdogger]

 Cull Buck, while i don't have any more experience that you do. I have to say that our cd's don't seem to have any self preservation. But on the other hand, maybe the hog hit some sort of sensitive nerve or something, since you said that he had never done that before. The only thing that would be in the back of my mind is did that incident put fear in your cd and would he turn loose again and cause you to get cut. Hmmmmm....the trust that a cd will never turn loose is where i get my nerve to leg a big hog. So can you still trust him?

[hillbilly]

It would be hard to trust him by himelf. I have never seen a bulldog quit a hog unless they were dead. I always like to send in at least 2 catchdogs anyway.

[leonriverboy]

I would not cull him for this one isolated incident.  Every dog is going to have a bad day and hopefully that is all this was is a bad day.  This may never happen again and he could be the best cd you will ever own?  Only time in the woods will tell.  I had a cd I would consider great get thrown 10 ft in the air and when he came back down he didn't go straight for the hog he circled around and got a run at him from the side and caught the ear.  All dogs are different, but prior to this if you thought he was a good cd I would keep him.  If this happens again then I would start looking for a new one.

[got2catchem]

Just curious, what breed is the catchdog? If it's a APBT then I would consider it a cull. I just expect a certain amount of gameness out of a APBT. Either way, My personal preference is for a catchdog to take the blunt end of the damage and be game enough to hold the hog even over regard for its own self. If you are dead set on keeping the dog, that I'd suggest using it as a back-up and 2nd bulldog. Regardless, if the dog was caught or not when the hog cut him, he was engaged at a "no turn back" point. I'd be just a little leary because I have seen dogs quit before and it just seemed a little easier for them to quit again. I hope this isn't the case with your dog, but I'd hate to see a post on ETHD describing you going in on a beast and your bulldog coming off. It just takes a split second for things to go western.

[duece24]

to simply answer your question...yes your standards are lower than most for a catchdog. i believe everyone that i hunt with would cull that cd if they were "spinning in circles screaming like a girl". the cd is supposed to be the muscle to your pack, that is why we say "we sent in the calvary and it was a SEALED DEAL". they are supposed to seal the deal. having a catchdog that gets hit and hollers like that is like having a bodyguard that hears a gunshot and they take off running and leave the person they were supposed to be protecting. they get paid to put their life on the line for those people. well the cd is "paid" to put their life on the line to catch hogs. when they don't do that they are no longer a cd. as hard as it may be to hear...that my friend is a cull.....

[Scott]

As a Bulldog/catchdog, the dog is a cull.

[BigDaddy2508]

Not being there it makes it hard to say....but with that said it would be a cull in my book.  I am just to slow to even get out of my own way if a CD lets go on me.  If you like the dog use him as a back up CD and nothing more IMHO.

[make-em-squeel]

As a Bulldog/catchdog, the dog is a cull.

All true bulldog men will say cull, they should never let go with guts hanging out or not.

I personally dont fault you for giving your dog you like a 2nd chance...because if you do, the fact is that it is very possible it could have hit a odd nerve or his sciatic nerve that sent a sharp lighting bolt pain down his leg and out his butt like sitting on coals, thats a strong possibility.

None the less once is an excuse but twice is a cull.
 
The only personal experience i have like this from hunting with cd's for 4 yrs was a solid pit who had caught through severel (8-10) bad cuts alot of which put him out for 4-8 wks and never quit, one day he was caught and a sow came around back and ripped his butt hole down to his ham, he yelled like a girl as well for 5 min. and let go with his butt on the ground He caught great after that, even when cut,  until the heat got him one busted bay many moons ago.  If he had never caught through a cut before that i would have probably given up on him but as it ended up i never saw it happen again. Who knows... let us know how he does next time he gets cut, i could learn something from this since i am a rookie....and dont breed him 

[chainrated]

What if you had been in there up close and personal with the hog and your dog did that?
In my opinion he is a cull as a catchdog.

[BIG BEN]

 Cull, a bulldog should never give up and quit. Hit hard and stay on till the end.

[Pudge]

Cull. I'd hate to walk in on a bad hog if I had any doubts about my catchdog.

[FL hogdogger]

I tell you what, I was hunting behind a buddies pit when it let go and let me tell you I lost complete trust! Let's just say he will be running in to leg on that dog not me!  But that is a tuff choice!

[BarrNinja]

 Cullbuck,

I have been hog hunting for well over 20 years now and in a lot of ways I am still new to the sport. Especially when it comes to catch dogs. I started out and spent years catching hogs with just curs and a rope for the man hogs. My biggest hog to date was a monster about 17 years ago. I had no catch dog. I legged him backing out of a briar thicket without a dog touching him. No amazing feet though. The hog was completely worn out after 3 and a half hours of baying! I legged him and he fell over in exhaustion. I couldnt even get my hands around both legs so I used both hands around one leg!
After all those years of catch and tie with only 2 good catch dogs, I scaled down and shot hogs mostly for 10 years unless I was hunting with friends. The past 3 years I have been catching hogs again and have had a bad run with catch dogs.
I have not been around a lot of goods catch dogs but I have had a few in my opinion.
I guess I tell you all of this because I have never been 100% confident in a catch dog holding when I went in to leg a big hog. Its not even a requirement for me on the big ones.
Give me a thinking catch dog with some brains. Thats what I require. A dog that will help me catch a big nasty hog and not catch one for me. Give me a catch dog with handle and a desire to please. Self preservation is fine with me as long as he is not willing to sacrifice me! lol.
My standards are a little different with catch dogs because I dont expect them to kill themselves catching a big hog! I would rather them have the brains to help me get it cought in time and live to catch another.
Maybe I am just a little naive when it comes to CD,s but "my" limited experience has brought me around to my way of thinking!
If you cull him I will give him a try!

[Noah]

Took the words right out of my mouth BoarNinja!  Saved me some typing!!! .... but here I go anyways....

I also prefer a dog that will "help me" catch... dog gets to catchin' by hisself too much and bad things happen...

I also like a CD with a little "self preservation" bred into it...  they defenitely last longer

I'll take a dog that's willing to die when I ask him to... not just because he fees like it...

Obviously, my vote is "you might just have a better dog than you thought Cull Buck!" 

And for the record... I don't trust any catch dog... they're all subject to gettin' shook off with the right hog.

[ETHHunters]

I trust mine better than having a gun in my hand, If I didnt I wouldnt use him. We always use two catchdogs so I would think there is less of a chance of that happening. I will say shook off and turning loose are two very different things!