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Author Topic: leopards?????  (Read 33925 times)
bigo
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« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2010, 10:59:29 am »

A little shot of the old time July would help most lines of curs these days. I have found one in La. and am thinking about trying some crosses. All lines of curs have all kinds of stuff put in them over the years. The old new and improved trick. The only thing, some people are honest about it and some are not. Ray Charles could look at some of the registered Dogs these days and see it.
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« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2010, 11:13:02 am »

Here are some interesting reading
http://www.catahoulaleopard.com/homepg.htm

According some other info on/linked from this site & ARF site with pictures & facts that date back 1950s and some of the dogs that came out of MS weren't alowed into the NALC (National association of Lousiana Catahoula) registery, could it be possible those spotted dogs that were not allowed to be called Catahoulas by NALC be simply dubbed as the "Leopard dogs"?
 
Read this- pictures/publications to go with article at the link below 

http://animalresearchfoundation.com/nalc_mystique.htm
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had to share this, there were some great old PICTURES & ARTICLES, facts and history about Catahoulas and Cowdog Rodeos too!

UNVEILING THE NALC MYSTIQUE

 By Al Walker, ARF Genealogist & Registrar

 

For our many friends who are not familiar with the “NALC”, it is the acronym for the “National Association of Louisiana Catahoulas” (an organization that was established by Mrs. J. S. [Betty Ann] Eaves, Denham Springs, Louisiana, incorporated in 1977, in memory of her father, Kline Rushing, founder of “Tophand Kennel”).

For a quarter of a century, Ms. Eaves has deliberately withheld information in regards to her institution that we believe many would like to know.  What are some of the facts that Mrs. Eaves would rather you not ever learn?  Now that I have your attention, let us start with the biggest fact of all, the Animal Research Foundation [ARF].  As you read the brief history about the NALC, in their official NALC information pack, there is no mention of the Animal Research Foundation [ARF], or of Mr. Tom D. Stodghill, or of his work to be the first to recognize and register the [Louisiana] Catahoula Leopard. Therefore, the most important fact of NALC’s history has been blacked out for very obvious reasons – “Tophand Kennel”, NALC-registered dogs.

For, you see, one of their rules and guidelines for registration is that the Catahoula must be of Louisiana background and ancestry.  Further, they are requiring you, the applicant, to provide the names and date of birth of the sire, dam, grandsires and granddames of the dog to be registered (also, the names, addresses and phone numbers of their owners, etc., etc., etc.)  As we delve deeper into the realm of “Tophand Kennel”, we will find that the rules that have been set for you are not the ones she and her father would apply to themselves.  More on this later.   

For those who are not familiar with “Mr. Tom”, as he was affectionately known by his friends, he was the Founder of the Animal Research Foundation [ARF], and he was the first to register the “Catahoula Leopard”, September 30, 1951, at the insistence of Mr. V.T. Williams of Thornton, Texas, and Mr. Orval Bates.  As various Catahoula breeders learned of the Animal Research Foundation and Mr. Stodghill’s work, they brought their dogs in to be field tested, and to be registered.  And, every October, Mr. Tom put on a “Cowdog Rodeo” so that many breeders could compete and show off what their dogs could do.

 

Other than V. T. Williams and Orval Bates, who were some of these early Catahoula pioneers? They were men like J. P. Sparks, S & J Ranch, Wilberton, Oklahoma, W. T. Foster, Mt. Pleasant, Texas, Claude Allen, Mt. Pleasant, Texas, Leon Flagg, Ellenton, Florida, Jack Duncan, Archie, Missouri, James McCoig, White Pine, Tennessee, Homer Kennedy, Hamilton, Georgia, C. C. Wooldridge, Roswell, New Mexico, Kenny Reeves, Reeves, Louisiana, Gene Ward,  Stamps,  Arkansas,    J. Paul Coco, Marksville, Louisiana, James L. Moore, Dale, Texas, J. P. Traxler, Sr. & Vernon Traxler, Ferriday, Louisiana, Aubrey Jones, Bryan, Texas, Richard J. Bertrand, Louisiana, Claude Lively, Louisiana, and many others.

 
(Orval Bates’ Catahoula price list, c. 1952)

 

Approximately twenty years later, January 2, 1971, Kline Rushing, Tophand Kennel, brought his first Catahoulas to the ARF, so that he could ARF-register him with the Foundation.  The dog’s name was “Tophand Tiger”, ARF No. 2160, a male out of “Rock Jr.” and “Sue”.  Up until that time, like all the other Catahoula breeders, none of Mr. Kline Rushing’s Catahoulas were registered, and the first dogs registered had no birth dates for the sire, dam, grandsires, or granddams, much less have a listing of the names, addresses and phone numbers for the owners. Further, not all of “Tophand Kennel” dogs have pedigrees with exclusive Louisiana roots, i.e., “Tophand Cat’s” grandmother was “Lady” [see ARF No. 2161], owned by Joe Faust of Woodville, Mississippi. Another was “Tophand Jack’s” grandmother, named “Widow Brown” [see ARF No. 2202], owned by James Rimes of Magnolia, Mississippi. And, “Tophand Pat”, ARF No. 2214, was born in Mississippi, and so were her parents and grandparents, etc.

 



       (Tophand Tiger,  owned by Kline Rushing)

ARF Registration/Pedigree for Tophand Tiger


 

ARF Registration/Pedigree for Tophand Cat



ARF Registration/Pedigree for Tophand Jack



ARF Registration/Pedigree for Tophand Pat



    (below - Tophand Cat owned by Kline Rushing)
Friends, Kline Rushing, “Tophand Kennel’s” owner, could not meet the criteria that his daughter is expecting you to conform to.  Further,   January 1972, Mrs. J. S. [Betty Ann] Eaves, began filling out the ARF Certified Pedigrees for “Tophand Kennels”, as well as for many of their customers, and, she, too, could not supply a complete history on many of the dogs that she registered.  Therefore, between January 2, 1971, through May 18, 1977, “Tophand Kennels”, Kline Rushing and Mrs. J. S. [Betty Ann] Eaves, registered 479 Catahoulas with the Animal Research Foundation.  [From the ARF archives, notice the original ARF Certified Pedigrees that were filled out by Mr. Kline Rushing or his daughter, Mrs. J. S. Eaves, listing “Tophand” dogs.]

As I mentioned earlier, Mr. Stodghill held a “Cowdog Rodeo” each fall, in October.  In October of 1974, Mr. Stodghill advertised the Animal Research Foundation Cowdog Trials for Oct. 26 & 27, to be held at the Belmeade Ranch.  Prior to this event, it was advertised  that breeders and dealers and cowdog enthusiasts from Louisiana, Oklahoma, Florida, Arkansas and Texas, as well as from other parts, would be there to participate in a big parade and prize money  - beginning at Tom Stodghill Ranch, through Terrell, and on to Belmeade Ranch.  Part of the Louisiana delegation was Kline Rushing, his daughter Betty Ann Eaves, and their dogs. [See Terrell Tribune, October 15, 1974 Edition – Photo of Mr. Kline Rushing, Betty Ann, holding four of their Catahoulas, ready to compete in the Cowdog rodeo.]

 
(Article from Terrell Tribune, Terrell Texas, October 15, 1974 featuring Kline Rushing & Betty Ann Eaves)

According to Bill Estes [Stodghill’s Animal Research Magazine, Winter 1974 – 75, 43rd Edition], “If you missed the COWDOG TRIALS, you missed your chance of the year to see some of the top dogs in action.  All major breeds were well represented and competition was close and keen.”  However, did “Tophand Kennel” do well at the Animal Research Foundation Cowdog Trials?  If you are a NALC member, why not ask Betty Ann – see if she remembers.

Dear reader, I hope by now you can see that we are able to unveil the NALC mystique.  Regardless of Betty Ann’s attitude towards the ARF, the ARF has an excellent historical record of her dogs.  And, it is too bad that many NALC patrons have been treated unjustly – requiring that all their dogs have a Louisiana pedigree, when many of her dogs did not.   

It is wonderful that the Louisiana State Legislature made the Catahoula its State canine; however, it is tragic that the NALC discriminates against all other Catahoula owners who do not have a Louisiana pedigree  [Kline Rushing and Mrs. J. S. Eaves being the exception].  Yes, there are just as good Catahoulas in California, Alaska, Canada, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, Florida, Mexico, South America, New York, etc., as in Louisiana.  Friend, call it what you will, but in my book, this is the height of NALC hypocrisy. One day, Ms. Eaves’ strangle- hold on the NALC will come to an end.  Her power grab and control will come to a close, and how will she be remembered when people see her picture on the wall?  I don’t say this to embarrass her, or the good people who work for the NALC, but the truth is going to surface whether or not any NALC representative wants to face it. The bottom line is that she is living in denial, and denial ain’t no river in Egypt.  Today, the records clearly show that the NALC has been built on a fraudulent foundation; therefore, I believe it is now time for Mrs. Eaves to come clean with her members, by stating that –

 

1.   All 479 of the original “Tophand Kennel” dogs were ARF registered, by Mr. Tom D. Stodghill, ARF Founder, from January 2, 1971 to May 18, 1977.

2.    Not all “Tophand Kennel” dogs had pedigrees, originating from Louisiana.

3.    “Tophand Kennel” was just one of many kennels that bred and raised Catahoulas.

4.    The ARF was the first to register the Catahoula, in 1951.

5.   The ARF was the first to write the history on the Catahoula Leopard, 1983.

6.   The ARF was the first to hold organized Cowdog Trials, to exhibit the working abilities of the Catahoula Leopard.

7.   The ARF provided Mr. Kline Rushing, and his daughter, Mrs. J. S. [Betty Ann] Eaves, NALC’s Founder, with valuable breed information that could not have been obtained elsewhere.

8.   The NALC’s existence would have been more difficult had it not been for the lifetime work of Mr. Stodghill’s research on the Catahoula, and his creativity in the development of the Cowdog Trials.

9.   The Animal Research Magazine was one of the most sought after dog journals for Catahoula breed information.

10. The ARF provided the NALC impetus to create the building blocks of a specific breed registry.

   

As Mr. Stodghill once said, “The ARF is often imitated, but never duplicated.”  Yes, Mr. Stodghill provided a wealth of information to Mr. Rushing and his daughter; therefore, they made many trips to ARF headquarters to get information. Where did Mr. Tom get his information?  Mr. Tom spent hours-on-end, on the phone or in person, with individuals [especially with the old-timers] in regards to the Catahoula. As the 1980’s dawned, he sent his notes to Ms. Linda Rorem so that she could start putting his book together; however, some very important editing was overlooked, i.e., the name of Mrs. Eaves ended up as “Reeves”, and Mr. Rushing’s first name was spelled with a “C”, rather than with a “K”, for Kline. [I apologize for such simple mistakes; it is very important that people’s names are spelled correctly.] In 1983, when his book was printed, he was pleased that he had something in writing that he could share with the Catahoula enthusiast. However, as I talked with Tom, there was much more that he could have added, but, with a limited budget and a big heart, he sent it off to press.


(Tom Stodghill, c. 1983)

I remember the day when his book finally arrived from the printer, how pleased he was – we took a photo of him, standing by the many cases of books, with a sample book in his hands.  A few weeks later, he received a check from the American Kennel Club [AKC], wanting to purchase the book for their library. [He never deposited the check; therefore, the original AKC check is in the ARF archives. However, for your viewing, here is a copy of the check.]

 

Do we have copies of Mr. Stodghill’s book – “History of Catahoula Leopard Cowdogs”?  Yes, we do!  The book is available for $20.00, postage and handling included.  To receive a 25% discount, double-register your NALC-Catahoula with the ARF, and we will send it to you along with your ARF Certificate of Registration.

 

CATAHOULA LEOPARD COWDOGS

 By Tom D. Stodghill (1903-1989)
Genealogist of the Animal Research Foundation

 [This story is taken from TDS’s book, “History of Catahoula Leopard Cowdogs.]

 I wish to thank all my many friends and customers that have helped me to make the “ARF Cowdog Magazine” a reality.  I am very sure this is the only magazine published in the entire world by a man that has spent his entire life on a farm and had to depend on livestock and farming for a living.  I know there has been many mistakes in the magazine which should have been corrected.

 The day I should have been proof reading the first issue, a storm blew off the roof of my house, and I had to have a new roof put on my house, and the printer had to do his own proof reading.  When the second edition came, we were bailing hay and combining grain, and I still was too rushed for time to proof read the copy like I should have, and there was always more letters to write than I can possibly write.  Also, I have a lot of visitors, and when they drive across two or three states, or drive all the way from Canada, or Mexico, you can’t make them wait.

 When my neighbors have a wild cow to get away, and they can’t catch her on a horse and they want a dog to trail that cow, and put her out of the brush where they can rope her, I can’t get them to wait.  They want that cow caught right then.  It takes a lot of experience and time to know just which dog and which man to send on a job like that.

 I thought I knew all there was to know about cattle and dogs, but I found out there was a lot of difference in cattle.  Just as the fall edition of the Magazine was to go to press, and I was due to work in my office,  I received a long-distance call from a man that had 700 head of Black Angus cattle, and the grass was so tall he was having trouble finding the baby calves to ear tag the day they were born.  What he wanted was a dog that could work all day in the tall grass, hunt those baby calves, and keep up with a horse.  As I had used dogs all my life, I never had any trouble finding a baby calf, or when a cow would hide her calf.  All there was to it was to put Shep after the cow and make Shep take it easy, and the cow would go to her calf.

 One day, Mr. Floyd Ramsey gave me the rush on this deal; he wanted two dogs as quick as possible, to ship to his ranch in Kansas.  He wanted the dogs to go by plane, and he wanted me to send a man to work the dogs the first day.  As he was paying all the expenses by air, I decided to go myself instead of sending Mr. Orval Bates or Mr. Napoleon Vonner.

 After considering the tall grass and the number of cattle, I decided to carry a pair of Catahoula Leopard Cowdogs that were big and powerful, and I knew that would work all day regardless of how heavy the grass was.  In the past, I have had trouble with small dogs giving out in the river bottom trying to keep up with a horse in heavy weeds and tall Johnson grass, and I knew the Catahoulas would change their style of work to fit almost any condition, and there wasn’t much danger of the dogs giving out.

 I left Love Field Airport in Dallas at 1:00 PM and arrived at Wichita, Kansas, at 3:00 PM.  Mr. Ramsey’s ranch manager met me at the airport.  It was about an hour drive to the Ramsey ranch; when we arrived, they were putting up silage.  It was late that evening when we saddled the horses and rode out to the pasture where the cattle and calves were.  There wasn’t a tree in sight, and you could see ten miles in any direction.  The grass looked like our prairie hay; it was higher than a calf’s back, and to find the calf, you had to ride almost upon it before you saw it.

 All the cattle I ever worked before would always go to their calf when a dog got after them, but not those Black Angus cows.  They would chase the dogs, and that was just what the dogs wanted the cows to do, and towards the feed lot the dogs went.  However, the dogs were not doing what the ranch manager expected; he intended that the dogs leave the cows alone and that they find the calves.  Since Mr. Ramsey’s cattle had never been worked by dogs before, they would paw the dogs, kick at the dogs, butt at the dogs and do anything but go to their calves.  Many of the cows were heavy with calf, or already had calves, and the ranch manager wouldn’t let me train the cows to be worked with a dog.  I called the dogs to me and here came those Angus cows from all directions.  I thought Brahma cattle were hard to work, but Brahmas are much more intelligent and easier to work than Angus cattle.  I still don’t know who was confused more, me or the dogs.  I don’t believe I would have had any trouble if I had been by myself and could have worked the cows like they were mine.  I would have let the dogs pen the Angus heifers, and, as the cows bellowed for their calves, I would have turned them out and followed them to their calves.

 Soon, it was evident that all I could do was quit and listen and try to get the ranch manager to let the dogs train the cows.  The next day, we went about five miles to another pasture where there were all cows and no calves.  On our way, I talked him into letting me pen the cows with the dogs.  The cows had never been penned with dogs; therefore, I wanted to train the cows to work with a dog before they had calves.  Everything went good until we got the cows to the gate, and when we started to open the gate, riding by the cows on a horse caused the cows to break and run.  The dogs didn’t rush the cattle, but would have put the cows back through the gate if they had been let alone.

 The ranch manger wanted to know if that was the way you “Damn people in Texas” worked cattle.  I told him it sure was, and if the cattle were in the timber and if the dogs didn’t stay with them, we just kill a dog like that in Texas.  We wanted a dog that would get with them and stay.  If the dogs had been left alone, they would have soon stopped the cows, but the ranch manager was right behind the cows hollerin’ and cussin’ those dogs.  The louder he would holler and the more he cussed the dogs the faster those cows would run.  As he was riding a Quarter horse, he finally outran the cows and got close enough to my dog Buck to call his name.  Buck came to him and he beat the hell out of my dog and came back leading him with a lariat rope.  If I had that one experience on film and show it just exactly like it was, I wouldn’t have to spend any more money advertising Catahoula Cowdogs.

 

A PARTING MESSAGE FROM AL WALKER, ARF GENEALOGIST

 

For information on the Catahoula Cowdog, whether it is for educational purposes or for acquisition, you should make the ARF your first stop.   September 30th , of 2001, ARF celebrated 50 years, 1951 – 2001, in recognizing the first registered Catahoula Cowdog – thank you, Mr. V. T. Williams.
 
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« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2010, 11:16:32 am »

After doing some google search it seems to me there like what everyone else is saying cat X bmc cross. And I have a buddy who's got two leopards like this.

But also I still think the traits and everything about these leopard dogs still seem like to me that it's catahoula.
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Reuben
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« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2010, 11:29:49 am »

there is deffinatly a difference, i have owned both. the american leopard cur is more houndy, colder nosed, fast, and most are open mouthed on track.  they come colored same as catahoulas tho. leopard and black and tan.  i think i have a pic. of my old black and tan leopard i will try and post later.

  I like them!  but they are same as every other breed, UKC recognized them as a breed, and the price went thru the roof and hence forth breeding for$$$.  but there are some good uns out there just do your home work.  i would defenitly give one a try.  my buddy bought theone i used to have and he is totaly silent in track, and built about as good as you can get.

   The leopard cur and leopard hound are the same. The best I can decribe them is that they are somewhere between a hound and a catahoula. They are cold nosed and were bred for hunting. Most are open on track. The catahoula and the leopard cur/hound are two different breeds.

If I liked to hunt catahoulas I wouldn't hesitate to breed in some Leopard cur (bred for bear and boar) into the catahoula. On average I believe that I would get better nose, hunt and stick ability if I were wanting long range track dogs. Smiley

Right now there is a power struggle between the folks from the older days who want to continue calling them the leopard cur and others who here lately call them leopard hounds. Don't know why they want a leopard hound when we already have the Bluetick hound.

The mtn cur is the same in that they are somewhere in the middle between curs and hounds. They were bred to hunt all kinds of game and not to work cattle but they are good at working cattle if trained to do so.

Back in the old days the plott hound was known as a plott cur as well as a plott hound. Now all are known only as a plott hound.
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« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2010, 12:01:49 pm »

Now I wonder about the leopard fl curs?

They have been around a long long time, wonder how they fit into this?
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« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2010, 12:03:18 pm »

just another crossed up curr dog Grin
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« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2010, 12:09:03 pm »

just another crossed up curr dog Grin


I think you figured it out Jeese!!

In the end their all just mutts!
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« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2010, 12:10:30 pm »

Now I wonder about the leopard fl curs?

They have been around a long long time, wonder how they fit into this?

I knew a man who had two red fl curs. They were good looking and rough... The best I can describe these dogs is that they weren't the best strike dogs around but good enough. These dogs were really good at stopping and catching hogs. Most of the time you didn't need a catch dog with these two.
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« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2010, 12:12:42 pm »

just another crossed up curr dog Grin


I think you figured it out Jeese!!

In the end their all just mutts!
yes sir they are all dogs

just some better then others

and some just breed them prettier then other Grin
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« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2010, 12:34:54 pm »

I mean no disrespect for Mr Tom as I knew him from when I was a small boy, If you had the money he would register anything you had and you could call it anything you wanted. My dads pups all left Stodghills place sporting papers. They were probably better bred than most but their pedigrees did not fit them. I will not register a dog because of all the things I've seen go on in curdog registries, from that time 'till the present.
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« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2010, 12:45:17 pm »

BigO, I just like finding recorded history, and I am sure anything can be disputed and stretched here and there. However its pretty hard to find it -  recorded info on cur dogs, anything you can find to contribute I would be intrested in reading.
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« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2010, 01:12:43 pm »

Now I wonder about the leopard fl curs?

They have been around a long long time, wonder how they fit into this?

you know i was wondering that too.  is it just me or are the old lines you see down here blocky dogs.  Buddy has some that are so damn hard headed and blocky i swear they have bulldog in them somewhere.  he says they are just leopard dogs, or leopard curs and aint nothing but leopard and cur. they are all red and white colored up, cracked eyes here and there and dont have any hound traits at all.
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« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2010, 02:10:24 pm »

Like this dog that I just got rdjustham. He is a big block headed, leopard, and dumb as a box of rocks!!



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« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2010, 02:31:28 pm »

exactly like that one..lol blocky headed and built like a bulldog, skitish like a coyote and hunts like a cur... Cheesy
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« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2010, 03:16:02 pm »

WOW Grin Huh?

so what exactly is a double coat?
and do these suposed leopards have webbed feet too?
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« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2010, 06:06:37 pm »

 the first ones we ever had came outta louisiana via hog truck sometime in the mid/late 1960's. we've had em ever since. never heard anyone call em catahoulas until the last few years. the old dogs we had back then were sometimes blocky headed, but  had a  bigger ear that laid down, not a little ear that sticks up and breaks over like most of the cats i see lately. they were silent on track unless they were lookin at what they were runnin,  had enough nose for tree dogs  and were gritty enough to catch big stock. most were dark blue spotted, some white eyed, not much white on em if any,  lots of black and tans, not all the loud wild colored stuff you see now. alot of em were "coyote actin" and alot of em were mean SOB's !


 
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« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2010, 06:16:07 pm »

  alot of em were "coyote actin" and alot of em were mean SOB's !

sounds like the ones ive been around herre in fl
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« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2010, 07:14:52 pm »

Well as of the leopard debate I don't know much...I do know that I own a leopard dog that is out of some old stock of dogs that came from N. LA from sometime in the 1950's, maybe around the Dobie/Doby (???spelling) Hills Area ...These stock of dogs were owned by a few cowmen around that lived and raised free range cattle here and they were all pretty much just like RockinW said they were...Most all of that blood has died out with the cowmen, who most have passed on...My uncle got the puppy from a man he worked cattle with about eight years ago...The man died and if I'm not mistaken his wife wouldn't let the dogs go to anyone...My grandpa owned alot of dogs out of these but they passed on one by one shortly after he did...Looking back, I wish I woulda known alil more about dog breeding and the blood that was there...I was just a kid so my mind was else where...Ill try and get a picture of the dog I own up here...If im not mistaken, I remember a story about my Grandpa picking these dogs from a couple of guys that used the dogs to work cattle and were also used as watchdogs because the guys were running whiskey or something...Can't really recall to much from it.

The dogs I was raised around were all real dark colored, black, dark leopard and dark tiger striped maybe seen one or two gyps with a ringneck, most males had somewhat of a blocky head, really gritty, could flat work cows, and you didn't touch em unless u owned em, and don't ever recall a double glass eyed dog out the bunch, lots of cracked eyes like the leopard I own...Just my limited experience with em is all.
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warrent423
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« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2010, 08:45:51 pm »

Back home in Florida, we consider any dog that has catahoula in it to be a leopard dog. I'm huntin two good close range leopard curs right now up here in Tennessee.
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« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2010, 08:49:38 pm »

Back home in Florida, we consider any dog that has catahoula in it to be a leopard dog. I'm huntin two good close range leopard curs right now up here in Tennessee.

guess thats a more straightforward way of putting what i was trying to say..lol
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