Brindle Black Mouth Curs?

[okie]

i guess you could call them black and tan...as long as you don't get them mixed up with a hound..ha ha...the older breeders i've spoken to called them reversed....so i just call them that too...i'm still learning about the breed myself....i've never seen an all black bmc with just a yella mouth....i'm sure when this breed was being created there where different breed's of dogs of different colors mixed together to form one...so all these colors could just be from foundation dogs that started the bmc breed.....................................this is from a discussion from another board....

keven knierem said "Several years ago i had a litter of pups out of my Shelby's Hunter II
and my Knierim's Tiger Lilly. In this litter there was 3 puppies 1Black-1 deep Red-
1Blue all 3 had ringnecks--4white feet and looked like the tip of their tails were dipped
in white paint. I was very curious as to were all this white color was coming from.
So I called Mr. Howard Carnathan to clue me in. All he said was this was a throw back to the old foundation bloodlines. He suggested keeping some of them in the neighborhood.
Because he was certain they would be some of the best producers. He was even interested in getting one for hisself. As life would have it all 3 died due to extreme heat. So I never was
able to put them to the test.
Today when someone winds up with a ringneck puppy. The breeder is normally accused of improper breeding tactiics. Someone will pop off about some walker showing up in the crossing. When those who are true purest will realize this is a throw back to ancestors of days gone by. When breeders used just one rule. You Breed The Best To The Best.

[UNDERDOG]

Well respectfully okie when you mentioned Mr. Knierem and Mr. Carnathan that explains it and even moreso if your "reverse" colored dogs are from Howards line of dogs. I like Mr Howard and always enjoyed him but as all breeds and line not everyone will know what built them....but was not Howard foundation dog Carnathans Bruno? ......

I never had tthe chance to ask Mr. Howards about this before his stroke...but you figure it out.      

See pic on the right of Bruno advertised as a registered "catahoula bulldog"

[UNDERDOG]

Makes me think of this...




Sorry for jackin your thread Waylon.....

[okie]

mr howard did say "before i started breeding b-m curs, i went crazy, or had a brain storm, and tried to breed some catahoula bulldogs. i bred bruno to some half bulldog's and half catahoula curs, and registered them with the a-r-f in quinlan tx as catahoula bulldogs...never got one pup that had any sense"  http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=21872.0....

underdog, i only have one gyp from mr knierem...she was one of the pups in the second pic...she's a year old and turning it on...the other pup died...the dog in the first pic is from a guy here in oklahoma....

[UNDERDOG]

mr howard did say "before i started breeding b-m curs, i went crazy, or had a brain storm, and tried to breed some catahoula bulldogs. i bred bruno to some half bulldog's and half catahoula curs, and registered them with the a-r-f in quinlan tx as catahoula bulldogs...never got one pup that had any sense"  http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=21872.0....

underdog, i only have one gyp from mr knierem...she was one of the pups in the second pic...she's a year old and turning it on...the other pup died...the dog in the first pic is from a guy here in oklahoma....

Cool....no worries but it still don't explain Bruno being advertized as a cat bull......

I tried the cat/bull a bunch and alway had good luck...look up "Clifford"   

[chainrated]

Well respectfully okie when you mentioned Mr. Knierem and Mr. Carnathan that explains it and even moreso if your "reverse" colored dogs are from Howards line of dogs. I like Mr Howard and always enjoyed him but as all breeds and line not everyone will know what built them....but was not Howard foundation dog Carnathans Bruno? ......

I never had tthe chance to ask Mr. Howards about this before his stroke...but you figure it out.      

See pic on the right of Bruno advertised as a registered "catahoula bulldog"

Underdog did you ever get to meet Howard Carnathan or see any of the dogs he owned himself?
It's amazing how many folks actually believed what he said and advertised about them dogs he had.. 

[Reuben]

Bryant,

That sure does look like Carnathans Bruno in the pic. Howard had that monthly column in full cry for years... Don't know much about his dogs though.

[waylon-N.E. OK]

HMMMM? now I'm really confused   JK I guess there are some full blood or pure bred brindle BMC's, and even some other colors I didn't know where out there, if you can use the term " Full Blood " or " pure bred " with cur dogs. Thanks for the info guys.

sportsman x2 except in a bay pen  

Kaycee, I am from North East Oklahoma and thanks for the invite, I've been slipping into Texas little by little lately so maybe I'll give you a holler next time I'm headed your way, I always like to see good dogs work no matter the breed or color and am always ready to learn what I can about head dogs

[skoalbandett]

Fellers, Bob and I both know Howard well and have for years. Been to his home, stayed with him, talked with him any times. In Fact, Bob is the man who suggested the name American Blackmouth cur to Howard many years ago..

That article dont scratch the surface of the whole deal with those dogs or whats been done all in the name of in my opinion $$$. After Howard's stroke, now ya got another feller or two taking over with pups to sale. Ton's of history there for those that have been around a while and know.  
That article  dont mention  the breedings with Plott's which can explain the brindle or the July's which explains the flag tails and on and on. I will say one more thing that any good dog man say, thats all I need to know about it.. A few years back we went up to hunt our dogs for Howard and for a man Howard knew. Howard knew about a couple good dogs we had and wanted to see them hunt. We loaded up that morning and asked Howard which dogs he was taking.. He said " Oh no, I can't hunt mine, they are to valuable to hunt".
There, I said enough, don't intend on saying anything else as it serves no purpose, but it is what it is in my opinion..

[kaycee]

I guess what I try to remember and keep on my mind at all times is what the definition of curr meant to the people that started breeding curr dogs, it was a specific crossing of breeds to get the traits they desired in a dog.  It kinda helps explain a lot sometimes.  I still get a lot of white snips on the nose and occassionly get a ring neck on dogs that I know their bloodlines for 10 to 15 generations, my grandpa told me when I got my original dogs that I had a duty to create better dogs for the future generations.  I try to keep that in mind every time I breed.  He also told me that when he was younger they didn't have the means to breed  dogs to dogs like we do so a lot of times they bred the very best to the very best they could get to, regardless of color. I think that might explain why certain bloodlines throw certain coat patterns more than others.
Not quite on the same subject but almost, how many of ya'll have dogs that are double dew clawed.  It seems like all of my really old bloodlines, when crossed with another old bloodline throws atleast half a litter (or more) with the extra dew claws.  Just wondering if anybody else has this happen??

[kaycee]

That article dont scratch the surface of the whole deal with those dogs or whats been done all in the name of in my opinion $$$. After Howard's stroke, now ya got another feller or two taking over with pups to sale. Ton's of history there for those that have been around a while and know.   
That article  dont mention  the breedings with Plott's which can explain the brindle or the July's which explains the flag tails and on and on.
There, I said enough, don't intend on saying anything else as it serves no purpose, but it is what it is in my opinion..

I really wish that I would have paid more attention to my grandpa and asked way more questions than what I did, so much of the history of the dogs we love is being lost by information not being passed on and so much of the breed is being destroyed by people breeding for pretty and $$$.  Now I've said more than I intended but before I piss anybody off let me add that this is just MY opinion..

[Peachcreek]

most all of my cats have the double dew claw... i didnt realize some bmc had them too.. something in the wood pile i guess.

[chainrated]

Fellers, Bob and I both know Howard well and have for years. Been to his home, stayed with him, talked with him any times. In Fact, Bob is the man who suggested the name American Blackmouth cur to Howard many years ago..

That article dont scratch the surface of the whole deal with those dogs or whats been done all in the name of in my opinion $$$. After Howard's stroke, now ya got another feller or two taking over with pups to sale. Ton's of history there for those that have been around a while and know.  
That article  dont mention  the breedings with Plott's which can explain the brindle or the July's which explains the flag tails and on and on. I will say one more thing that any good dog man say, thats all I need to know about it.. A few years back we went up to hunt our dogs for Howard and for a man Howard knew. Howard knew about a couple good dogs we had and wanted to see them hunt. We loaded up that morning and asked Howard which dogs he was taking.. He said " Oh no, I can't hunt mine, they are to valuable to hunt".
There, I said enough, don't intend on saying anything else as it serves no purpose, but it is what it is in my opinion..

 

[chainrated]

Peachcreek, lots of breeds of dogs have double dew claws..

[Reuben]

Here is the problem with breeding better dogs. One breeders standard of excellence for performance and looks can be a total cull for another breeder and this is why we have good hunting dogs and sorry hunting dogs.

There are quite a few more reasons but I thought I would touch on one extreme and then the other.

[geronimo]

reuben just hit the nail on the head and thats why we will always have our great debates right reuben?

[Reuben]

That's a big 10-4 Geronimo....

[Wmwendler]

Here are some brindle dogs and one black and tan coat.  All 100% Cur dog.





All the other brindles are out of the first one.  This line throws mostly brindle and solid black, then a few black and tan and reds from time to time.  Not crossed with plotts just stock dogs in origin then used on hogs and cows for ~20-25 years.


The last two picks the black and tan and the ones in the gooseneck are out of a line thats 100% cow dog to this day, bred buy Cowboys for cow work.  That being said, lots of people go to that line for hog dogs and its not by accident.  That line throws solid black's, black and tan, and blue.  No they are not crossed with blue lacy or hound just bred tight from stock dogs that happened to be that color and it stuck with the line.

[BobbyB]

I havent been in a while, but there was a young guy with a gray brindle gyp that was winning all the money at the local bayings with her. His buddies said she was as good in the woods as she was in the pen.

I really liked the way she looked too. smallish and cat quick.

But that all said, when ever I go to buy a dog of any kind, hod dog or bird dog, I look at the dogs back ground looking for one with what I think will make the dog I am looking for. Once I find that litter, then I pick the one that is the most eye appealing to me. I am a firm believer that once you get down to an individual litter, it's a crap shoot from there any way and you might as well get one you like looking at.

[cward]

Well I get blacks ,black and tans , Yellows , brindles,and reds! Most everything I got are yellows but never keep anything for the color just what I end up with! I have been breeding mine for a long time and my Uncle started them in 1975! I will end up with a pup that is shaggy haired every now and then! But that don't mean nothing!
I also think the name cur came from the old cowboys that never bragged on his dogs! I remember people asking my Uncle what kinda dogs are them and he would say JUST A DANG OLE CUR! Just makes sence that it would have stuck from older cowboys than him!

I never herd of Weatherford Ben until I read of him on here!So I just asumed that all cur dogs through all colors!
But I met some great guys that have the same goal as me and were able to out cross with some of there dogs!