Training vs Genetics.

[Centexhogdogger]

I have trained many dogs for friends
This has nothin to do with this
I'm just sayin that u can get good dogs out if both good and bad lines

I'm leaving it at that

[treeingratterrier]

 Personally, I would rather bet on the truck full of dog pound dogs that a dogman trained to catch hogs vs the suposed superdog strain, usually the dogpounder will have better dogs because he knows no input(training) no hog output.  When I read some of these superdog brags i wonder if when they sell a pup do they say to the buyer, just get a handle on it and dont worry about the trainng, its bred to strike bay drive by itself 500 yards, just turn it loose??? 

What difference does how many dogs a guy owns or has hunted make anyways??  Some never get it and repeat the same mistake over and over, somebody could buy and train 10 or 20 dogpounders and figure it out i figure??lol

Personally I think these super long range gentically superior dogs dont have a big market anyways, places to small, too many ride 4x4s and ride or walk with the dogs, they want to sit in a truck and make the dog do it all cuase they wont wear out a pair of boots or lather up a mule or horselol  ducking now back to the dogpoundercentral...

[Reuben]

I have trained many dogs for friends
This has nothin to do with this
I'm just sayin that u can get good dogs out if both good and bad lines

I'm leaving it at that

breeding dogs is complicated when we are talking about an open pedigree which really only means that we are talking about one breed of dogs but no relations in the pedigree to speak of. This makes it to where the genes are very diversified. The way I understand it is that the parents contribute 50%, grandparents 25% and the great grandparents contribute 12.5% of the genetic makeup to the pups and so on etc. etc. This lowers the pecentage of consistantly getting pups that have hunting qualities especially if not all the dogs in the lineage were hunting dogs. Besides, too many people have different ideas as to what a good hunting dog is.

This explains why sometimes the parents don't hunt and some of the offspring will. We can also have pups that won't hunt for 2 years and all of a sudden the switch trips and they start hunting. This is still genetics at work and I believe some folks may confuse it with  training...not saying that training and sticking with the pup didn't help... I would have culled this pup at ten months if it didn't show me a certain amount of natural ability for this age. I see a dog that finally starts as a 2 year old as one that will pass those traits. I am not contadicting myself because of the percent contributions I just talked about...We have to start somewhere and I believe that we have to keep the dogs that meet our requirements if we want to breed a higher percentage of good dogs AND THIS IS CALLED GENETICS...

The higher the percentage of good dogs in a bloodline, especially close up, will give us a higher percentage of good pups and we as breeders should do our best to keep the very best of the pups, not just for hunting but it is more important to do so for breeding...if we are breeding dogs.

[Scott]

Personally, I would rather bet on the truck full of dog pound dogs that a dogman trained to catch hogs vs the suposed superdog strain, usually the dogpounder will have better dogs because he knows no input(training) no hog output.  

Now, my turn to play devil's advocate: according to the above...a dogman would never have to cull a dog (any, or every for that matter, dog on the planet should be able to be trained to find and catch hogs).

I think maybe there is a disconnect in the language being used. I know for me, what some here have described as training...I consider exposure.

[chainrated]

Centex,  You said you are 20 years old right?
At 20 years old how many hogdogs have you trained and finished out?

[Kessling Kennels]

Here again I have a bet for $7500 and you trainers keep bumping your gums and blow hards wont step up, You will stand across the fence and call names but wont get in the fight.
I dont sell pups and could care less what anyone thinks about my dogs.
90% of my pups are gone before they hit the ground.
I hunt hogs for fun and every opertunity I get to improve my game I take it.
If your happy hunting a pound dog and thats what you like to waist your time on then great WHO cares?
This was a bet for anyone calling theirselves a dog trainer.
I think I have some good genetics in my dogs and there are turds in every litter.In my yrs of breeding a Super dogs comes maybe once or if your lucky twice in a lifetime.
In litters of 10 If 5 turn out to be really good dogs I feel lucky but, I know what Im dealing with each time and I can work on correcting it in Genetics the next breeding.

My question to all is "Why would you take the time and money it takes to raise and start and finish a dog that you know nothing about verses getting a pup from a established breeder that has yrs of breeding behind him and you know the pup has potiential to be good?"



By the way who ever was asking where I went I was hunting last night And I will never run from a fight I promise

[Kessling Kennels]

I've tryed to explain it but I give up.
I hope all the pound dogs turn out for those guys.
And apperantly it can't be done ,none of the real dog trainer have stepped up for the deal I offered.
Come on guys you will work with a dog for 2 yrs and sell them for $800 to $1500 but wont take one for a yr and make $7500.

Putting on Devils advocate Hat, How about all of the pound dog trainers take up a collection and buy a pup from your bloodline, then the pound  and you train it to go 500 yards, bark off the hood, turn on Klingon Cloaking Device when dumped off and  follow a hog 3 miles  by itself and bay up hogs and drive them to a pen and close the gate and lock it's by itself.  If your super dog to die for strain does not do what you require the dog trainers to do you pay $7500 to them??   Surely your offer is good for the goose as well as the gander???  LOL  just stiring the pot for the dog pound kettle mutts i got....What say ye???

I never said it could be done,I sure don't think I can acomplish this task with any dog even my own.
I think to finish a dog out takes several yrs.
Again its a bet If you dont want in than stay out of the hunt plan and simple.

[Circle C]

After the last few pages, this is the image I have in my mind.

[HS]

Centex,  You said you are 20 years old right?
At 20 years old how many hogdogs have you trained and finished out?

x2

[Kessling Kennels]

X2  Chris

Theres Republicans and Democrates,there are boys and girls,there is hot and cold too many diffrent opinions and beliefs.
This horse has had buzzards over it awhile now.

Lets move on to Hounds verses Curs

[Reuben]

X2  Chris

Theres Republicans and Democrates,there are boys and girls,there is hot and cold too many diffrent opinions and beliefs.
This horse has had buzzards over it awhile now.

Lets move on to Hounds verses Curs

The horse is not really dead.
We just put him to sleep...

[Kessling Kennels]

That would mean he could possibly awake,We sure would'nt want that to happen now would we

[Centexhogdogger]

See yal turnin what I'm sayin around
I agree that I would rather buy a dog with good
Genetics than none..
But I was stating that u can get good dog out if bad genetics.
Not as often but it's there.

But I'm done with this post

[Kessling Kennels]

Ther is no such thing as a good dog out of bad genetics!
Im convienced that many do not know what genetics are and in my observation are very confused on what they are talking about.JMO

Please do not sign up for Algebra 2 if you have not taken FOM (Fundamentals of math)

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Yea thanks Mike.  Now on to Light VS Dark Beer. 

I think I could train myself to drink dark beer but I am genetically wired for light beer.

Ohhh here we go again. 

[Centexhogdogger]

Actually I already passed. Trig
So u can stop running ur mouth
I'm done With this post I'm tired of readin
And more things posted about what I said
And on on on even when I don't write anythin

[Kessling Kennels]

Mike,

Lets have a Tournament between the pound dogs verses the genetic super stars.
I will donate the 1st $1000 added money.
We can settle this one out right.

[Centexhogdogger]

 I wasn't tryin to be an ass I just satin I'm out of this thread
So I just don't want my name in it anymore
This full thing was based on opions.

Nice having the debate though