Training vs Genetics.

[noelle]

[/quote]

I'll take that deal

x2

[chainrated]

Just let me know where to send the dogs. If you fail I want the gas money back it cost me to get them to you...I also know of 3 people right now that will pay $3000 for a sure enough dog. Just let me know when you get 3 trained..
And I have a question, if you can train any dog to hunt and bay hogs then wny are you not already doing it and raking in the money? There are countless dogs culled every year that I'm sure would love to be trained into hogdogs and also plenty of people that would love to buy them..

[chainrated]

I wish i had a dollar for every dog that was a stray or came out of a dog pound that was trained to be a hog dog in south texas before the web....be a huge pile.....

I wish I had a dollar for every stray or dog in the pound that was not...

[UNDERDOG]

I wish i had a dollar for every dog that was a stray or came out of a dog pound that was trained to be a hog dog in south texas before the web....be a huge pile.....

I wish I had a dollar for every stray or dog in the pound that was not...

X 2

[Kessling Kennels]

GENETICS make the difference between average joe and a world class athlete.PERIOD!!!
Sure my buddy in high school that was 6'5" 310#s worked as hard as we did at practice but was just a linemen and coach never gave him the ball for a reason No speed.
20 yrs ago whitetail breeders were striving to produce 200" deer  now today they have already produced deer that score over 300"s all from genetics.

How many people wanting to raise a kentucky derby winner shop at the local sale barn for a colt?

How many redneck hillbillies are running for president?  Im one myself.

Mike made a great statement "You can not teach a dog to hunt or to stay with a running hog" They must have the drive to want to go the extra mile.

Most people dont understand genetics and the ones that do consistantly produce good dogs over and over.PERIOD!!

[Centexhogdogger]

X2 that one lol
But were u from

[chainrated]

Matter of fact, I have often wondered why none of these dog trainers are capitalizing on the hogdog market today.. There are more and more people hog hunting everyday and less and less good hogdogs around it seems. A few of these dog trainers could combine thier abilities and make it rich off training and selling hogdogs. There are so many different styles of dogs that people like for different situations and areas. So you could train all different types of hogdogs for all these different people and the money would never stop rolling in. Long range dogs, short range dogs, cold nosed dogs, hot nosed dogs, silent dogs, open mouth dogs, rough dogs, baydogs, catchdogs, running catch dogs, etc . etc.. You could even put out your own magazine that you could charge for with all these different types of dogs and people could just order whatever kind of dog they wanted. Or they could just pay you to train their own dog or any dog of their choice. The best part is you would have a never ending supply of FREE dogs to train, it would be pure profit except for dog food. Well no, that would be free too, just think of all the dog food companies that would PAY you to use their feed and advertise with you. I tell yall the opportunities are endless here boys. You would be bigger than Sears..
I want my cut for giving yall the idea...   

[noelle]

there has been lotta money made on my end from training culls... im no longer a dog trader tho.

sure good dogs can be bred by someone that knows what their doin, but there are still no guarantees and theres still culls. just like any old dog mite throw a couple good ones but theres still culls...alot of good dogs are culled because they arent given the chance or they come around slow and alot are not culled that should be cuz they are pretty or cuz of other preferences... hard to reproduce consistently that way... if its all in the genetics then why are there still culls in renowned bloodlines??? If its all in the genetics then there is a glitch in the program if there are any culls at all... a bloodline that will produce range and drive and hunt and bottom strictly off of genetics and no training should be solid enough to never produce a cull if thats the case. we are talkin about genetics here so where does the cull gene come from? If its bred into half the litter why didnt the other half get it bred into them so they didnt have to be culled??? thats a pretty tough question to get a reasonable answer for, because its not all genetics, genetics raise percentages of havin good dogs, they dont just automatically make good dogs

[USHOG]

How do you train a dog to go out 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, a mile, looking for a hog?

 First you must help the dog along with its prey drive. Build this and you will find that most dogs will hunt their butts off. Teach them to use their noses at a very early age. Personally I do not want a dog that hunts out over 500 or 600 yards. I prefere 200 to 300 yards out.  I prefere dogs that stop the hog quickly but this is also because we have way to many hogs where we hunt and is one of the main reasons I have been slowly switching to all dogo teams. They track better, wind better, and very few hogs get away. I am compairing them to my curs.


How do you train a dog to take a track and stay with it until the hog is found?

Start out with short tracks and build from there. This takes much more time than most people will commit to their dogs to accomplish. This should be started at a very early age 3 or 4 weeks old. Constant reward for preforming this task corectly is a benafet. Food is probably the biggest assest I have. work the dog hard and then feed them. Make sure the dog is working for you.
 
How do you train a dog to stay with a running hog for many miles and many hours until it's bayed?

This is all about prey drive. Some dogs have it and some dont either way you can build upon what the dog has to make him better


That's all genetics to me, you can't train the hunt, drive and bottom into a dog.

I agree that genetics help but I have seen many great bred dogs that were worthless and I have seen many mutts that turned out to be great hunters. I will say that good bred dogs have a higher chance of becoming good hunters you are right but you can amplify these traits with how you raise (train) your dog

The problem I see most of the time is that people do not keep their dogs is great physical shape but they still expect the dog to perform at a high level every time. If a dog is not in top shape he has no chance unless he gets lucky to keep up with the hog much less stop him.

[Bryant]

I'm of personal belief that genetics are 100% what makes the dog.  As far as training, I look at that kind of reversed in that what I do is try like heck not to un-do or hinder what genetics has put in place.  I will also say good genetics without exposure will amount to nothing.  The best bred dog in the world won't be worth $.02 if he/she spends their life sitting in a kennel.

I'm a bit curious just like Mike, though.  Hear all the time people saying good training can sure enough make any dog as good as the next, yet no one has ever been able to explain to me even ONE of these "good training" techniques.  I'd be all ears if someone can tell me how to take a complete #2-eater and make that dog into a rangy hunting, tons of bottom dog.  Sure would save me lots of trouble, as I really dislike raising puppies.  If I knew some of these good techniques, I'd just go pull a dog out of the pound when I needed one.

[Kessling Kennels]

There is culls in every litter.
Every great trainer rather it be dog,horse,boxing,etc... will agree that it all starts with genetics and you are 3 steps ahead of the competition we you start with good genetics.
No matter how hard I trained I could never run a 4 flat 40 or a 10 flat 100.
This topic can very so many different opinions.
I've always said "most people dont know what a great dog is because they have never been around one or muchless owned one"
If a dog found a hog one time and barked at it dont make him a great hog dog.
There are some great dogs that pop up here and there but consistantly producing good dogs,deer,horses,people there is NO Substitution to genetics.

I have a buddy thats a dog trainer and pretty good at it.
He has had 100's of dogs brought to him for training and you CAN NOT TRAIN THE WILL TO HUNT in a dog!

[noelle]

then why are there culls in well reknowned bloodlines??? how come all the pups with the same genetics dont have the same drive, hunt, nose, bottom etc??  if its all genetics then why are there culls?

[chainrated]

Nothing is ever 100% guaranteed, most people know that.  It's all about percentages and if you want to make the most of your time and efforts to get a high percentage of good hogdogs then it's all about genetics and breeding a line, and CULLING ....
We all know of a stray dog someone found somewhere or one that came wandering up in your yard that made a decent dog but like I said before don't expect to breed the dog and get a bunch of hogdogs.
Also when I say hogdog I don't mean a dog that will bark at a hog or run ten minutes or go to another dog thats barking. I can "train"  about 99 out of 100 of the dogs I raise to do that..

[noelle]

well bryant like i have said before, i wanna see the 6 or 8 month old pup thatll go a mile and bay hogs consistently all alone... cuz it dont happen, they mite do it with another older seasoned dog, which answers your question, a solid older dog to mentor the younger dogs is the best training aid you can use

[noelle]

Nothing is ever 100% guaranteed, most people know that.  It's all about percentages and if you want to make the most of your time and efforts to get a high percentage of good hogdogs then it's all about genetics and breeding a line, and CULLING ....
We all know of a stray dog someone found somewhere or one that came wandering up in your yard that made a decent dog but like I said before don't expect to breed the dog and get a bunch of hogdogs.
Also when I say hogdog I don't mean a dog that will bark at a hog or run ten minutes or go to another dog thats barking. I can "train"  about 99 out of 100 of the dogs I raise to do that..

good point, dont expect to breed a bunch of stray dogs and end up with all hog dogs, but theres a chance u will have a couple good dogs out the bunch... same as genetically sound dogs, not all of them make it there are still culls...so where do the culls come from in a good line and where do the good ones come from in a bad line??

[chainrated]

You know I just thought about something else these trainers wouldn't be limited to just dogs either..
Think about the money that could be made on them poor horses that people are just turning loose now because they shut down the slaughter houses that Chance wrote about. No tellin how many Kentucky Derby winning horses are just wandering around right now waiting to be "trained"...    

[cantexduck]

I'll take that deal

I live out side of Florence. I have a cur that I can't get to bay. How long do you need with him? Shoot me a reasonable time frame and dollar amount.  I don't think you can get him to bay and hunt. Momma to him is known. To be a very very long range dog. Don't know much about the sire but the grand sire is a dog named buck now called cash. Momma was a dog called the blue eyed gyp.
   When do you want to meet?

[Bryant]

then why are there culls in well reknowned bloodlines??? how come all the pups with the same genetics dont have the same drive, hunt, nose, bottom etc??  if its all genetics then why are there culls?

Simple...and here's the two reasons.

1) Because the genetics are never the exact SAME.  The idea of linebreeding is to narrow the gene pool, but you can never narrow the gene pool to the point of all dogs being genetically identical.  That would be termed cloning.  In simple terms, health reasons dictate that the genepool must be somewhat diverse and as such the progeny will be likewise.  The goal of any breeding program should be better than average, and more consistancy among the pups.  You can have litters of consistantly crappy pups just as easy as consistant good ones.  Anyone who claims they are producing litters with no culls, will be trying to sell you a pup in the next breath.

2)  Because everyone's definition of cull is a little different.  I've hunted with plenty of people over the years who were plenty proud of their dogs...ones that I personally wouldn't feed.  (And probably likewise).  But if they're happy and catching hogs...that's all that really matters.

[Kessling Kennels]

Opinions are like buttholes everyone has one and most stink.
Hogdoggers usually have the largest.

You folks that don't think genetics are very much the makeup of most great dogs than keep buying them $30 pups and waisting 2 yrs of feed and your time on something thats never gonna be what you want.
If having 30 dogs tied to every tree in a yard and telling everyone you have 30 hog dogs is your deal than go for it.

I will keep my money on genetics and keep producing proven stock where in a couple of yrs look back and say I have something and not flooding this site with all my culls.

[chainrated]

How do you train a dog to stay with a running hog for many miles and many hours until it's bayed?

This is all about prey drive. Some dogs have it and some dont either way you can build upon what the dog has to make him better

Exactly some dogs have it and some don't. if you could train it then somebody would be doin it...

I agree you can build on it but only if it is there to begin with..