Training vs Genetics.

[Kessling Kennels]

My statement was incorrect than Bryant.
Genetics and exposer is what I should have said,but he was referring exposer as a training technique.My bad.

Sometime you have to go back to basics so everyone can follow.Sorry

My point will never ever change Genetics 1st and exposer,training,etc.... follows.
My opinion and Im happy with it.

[noelle]

Quote from: UNDERDOG on Today at 04:53:07 pm
Exposure and oportunity are not the same as trainig.....

are you $$&tt&#% me? lmao i cant believe you put that on the net... from teaching it to lead to exposing it to a hog its all part of the training process!!  anything you do with a young dog is training whether its training it to load or to go to a bay, ya genetics can give drive and nose and bottom and hunt but there is no such thing as a totally untrained dog... a hog dog is more than just runnin a mile and bayin a hog... what about the smaller stuff that makes it a truely exceptional dog? the stuff that the genetics didnt put in...exposure and opportunity are just more steps to training a hog dog, i see now how yall describe (no training) if you dont consider any of the training actual training... i got it now im no longer confused

[grunterhunter8]

ya genetics can give drive and nose and bottom and hunt but there is no such thing as a totally untrained dog... a hog dog is more than just runnin a mile and bayin a hog... what about the smaller stuff that makes it a truely exceptional dog? the stuff that the genetics didnt put in...exposure and opportunity are just more steps to training a hog dog, i see now how yall describe (no training) if you dont consider any of the training actual training... i got it now im no longer confused

What are some things you have trained a dog to do that genetics didn't allow for?

Another Question to you and rest of the training crowd? After you start with good genetics, then "train" a dog to hunt, bay, etc. and the dog ends up being a cull, what do you most often attribute this to? Did you just not train it well enough? 

[UNDERDOG]

No....your still confused, leading, loading, riding dont find and bay hogs 

That's just common everyday chit 

[noelle]

In the event it's culled on that level ya I blame the training and primarily not Puttin enough interest and time in the dog and loosing patience... Which if u reread u will see that's why I don't raise pups unless it's a nevessity. And I've trained hog coon cow dogs that didn't wanna bay at first or dogs that didn't wanna hunt... There's usually an explanation and can b straightened out. Just can't see how any true dogman can argue the concept of training I mean look at the big picture you all know as well as I do that genetics help but theres some extent of training involved to makin any kind of dog

[UNDERDOG]

And....are you claiming to be a great hog dog trainer? Of so train ole Molly to roll solo wo your bird dog...

[UNDERDOG]

To me training is getting a dog to do something its not genetically pre disposed to do, not the basics of a well mannered dog.

[noelle]

No....your still confused, leading, loading, riding dont find and bay hogs 

That's just common everyday chit 

Lmfao I guess you don't either then!!! I'm not one of them guys that has to pick his dogs up to load em and get tangled up when you lead em... If u ever been around a true huntin dog you would understand that that's all part of a huntin dog... Leadin Loadin commin to you... It ain't a finished hog dog if it don't handle and exposing pups to older dogs and giving them the opportunity to go to a Bayed hog is training which means there not doin it off genetics alone... Simple as that

[noelle]

And....are you claiming to be a great hog dog trainer? Of so train ole Molly to roll solo wo your bird dog...

Nope not a great trainer at all... But I catch hogs and Molly rolls solo and did when I got her...thus the genetics... Just won't find nothin on her own without him... Which I guarantee wil be lined out you can count on it. U live over by Ol Jerry Stuart? Mayb next time I'm at his house I'll come learn from u I guess lol

[noelle]

My dogs don't tote the well mannered gene I gotta teach it to them

[Noah]

Haha this is a good thread 

[UNDERDOG]

So back to training vs genetics .....can you take a barn yard rooster and train him to compete and consistently win against a old family of good,genetically strong hatch chickens? Or a ole blue pet bull and train it to compete on a high level and win consistently against a good family of game dogs? ?  No.....the GENETICS are not there....period, right?

[Reuben]

When I was younger I trained to sit stay heel fetch etc. etc. Then one day I decided it was over kill. The answer was simple. Every day socializing doesn't look like training but it is training. We meet that minimum amount of training with an exceptional dog then you will have a great hunting dog in your hands.

We just set this dog up for greater success when this dog is in the woods...

This has been a great thread...when we exhaust it... is only right to start one on "WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO HANDLE A HUNTING DOG IN THE WOODS TO TAKE HIM TO A HIGHER LEVEL"... This is the other side to making a natural a great dog...

when both are combined now we have something to talk about...

[UNDERDOG]

And....are you claiming to be a great hog dog trainer? Of so train ole Molly to roll solo wo your bird dog...

Nope not a great trainer at all... But I catch hogs and Molly rolls solo and did when I got her...thus the genetics... Just won't find nothin on her own without him... Which I guarantee wil be lined out you can count on it. U live over by Ol Jerry Stuart? Mayb next time I'm at his house I'll come learn from u I guess lol

Don't know Jerry Stuart but your partner knows were I live but that is pointless as you seem to have it all figured out and wouldn't learn any thing by coming here about hunting dogs  

[noelle]

So back to training vs genetics .....can you take a barn yard rooster and train him to compete and consistently win against a old family of good,genetically strong hatch chickens? Or a ole blue pet bull and train it to compete on a high level and win consistently against a good family of game dogs? ?  No.....the GENETICS are not there....period, right?

Talkin dogs not chickens... I dislike the smell of chicken$€#% so I don't fool with chickens... Us the comparison based on a chickens brain Bein equal to that of a dog?

[UNDERDOG]

So back to training vs genetics .....can you take a barn yard rooster and train him to compete and consistently win against a old family of good,genetically strong hatch chickens? Or a ole blue pet bull and train it to compete on a high level and win consistently against a good family of game dogs? ?  No.....the GENETICS are not there....period, right?

Talkin dogs not chickens... I dislike the smell of chicken$€#% so I don't fool with chickens... Us the comparison based on a chickens brain Bein equal to that of a dog?

Never seen a good family of game chickens or spent time with any working then I assume .....its ok to not understand something 

[noelle]

[/quote]

Don't know Jerry Stuart but your partner knows were I live but that is pointless as you seem to have it all
figured out and wouldn't learn any thing by coming here about hunting dogs  
[/quote]

the biggest fact spoken on this thread so far lol na anyway he's a good Ol boy surprised y'all haven't met he's been hog huntin many years lives just rite down the street... I think he's still Runnin some of my bloodlines in his yard... Johnnies too if I'm not mistaken   Just messin with ya Bryant
And Ur rite Noah this is a good thread  

[Bryant]

I'm even more curious now as to why you would consider breeding that Molly dog into your line.  Shouldnt you just train them better...after all you said you can train them to hunt as far as you like.

Honestly if I had been line breeding a line of dogs for 40 years and was still trying to put some range on them I would have scrapped them all about 35 years prior and started over with something completely different....but that's just me.

You also seem really hung up on the pups that will roll and hunt on their own.  Once again, I never personally said that mine would consistently find hogs (yet) but I can assure you I could start hunting these pups alone and in short time they would.  You see they were born with the hunt and prey drive "built in".  They don't need an old dog to make them go, nor do they need one to make them bay.  What running an older dog does is teach them to trail better...something they would eventually figure out on their own, it just greatly speeds the process.

Maybe you just haven't hunted or worked with some really well bred pups.

And in the words of Forrest Gump...That's all I have to say about that.

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

O CHIT!!!!!!

Sorry guys been reading and lovin this post but I don't have a thing to say yet. Just needed to post real quick cause I was sitting on post # 666. HeHe

OK Got that took care of. Please continue gentlemen.  

[TexasHogDogs]

Every now and then I hear someone say that training is the most important factor in making a hog dog over genetics.

What are yall's thoughts?

How do you train a dog to go out 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, a mile, looking for a hog?

How do you train a dog to take a track and stay with it until the hog is found?

How do you train a dog to stay with a running hog for many miles and many hours until it's bayed?

That's all genetics to me, you can't train the hunt, drive and bottom into a dog.

Putting a handle on your dog and trash breaking is the only training involved in my opinion.

Yup that bout sums it up.  All that needs to be said really.