Early Starters vs Late Bloomers

[Mike]

Let's get another topic rollin'.

I hear a lot of people expecting their dogs to be getting it done at a year old. To me, a year old dog is just a puppy and ready to be started, on real hunts, around that time... plus or minus a few months depending on their maturity level.

I judge a dog between one and two years old. I can't see culling a dog less than a year old unless there is a physical or mental issue. They should steadily progress through out that first year and by age two be on their way to making a dog. Those six month old superstars are impressive, but it always seems like they burn out early or hit a certain level and don't get any better with age... whereas the later bloomers seem to steadily get better with age.

[ROCKIN ROO HOG DOGS]

I AGREE 100% Met an older gentleman around cleburn tx one time,raised curs for working cows. He would gurantee his pups to work or your money back.......BUT the pup had to reach 18 months old before u bought it back. He said he never had one come back because by the time the dog had reached at least that age its genetic potential was just starting to peak and with more time invested people actually thought/knew they had a decent dog on their hands. This dog training deal takes time,time and more time.

[Peachcreek]

...............And he strikes another match and throws it on the pile. 

[noelle]

...............And he strikes another match and throws it on the pile. 

Hahahaha where ya been peach

[UNDERDOG]

I agree ....that pup the other night doing good was nice but don't mean he will make a dog
I seen lots of them one hit "wonders" burn out or never get better and sometimes get worse. Used to see it alot in beagles

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

OOOOOO Brotha you just prodding for a heated discussion.  LOL

I will just throw out.     I would rather be catching hogs with a two year old for one year vs waiting for a two year old to find his first.

All I will say I PROMISE. Hehe

Good luck with this one boys   

[catchrcall]

The pups I've had I've started at around a year old.  Much earlier and I feel like I'm sending a boy to do a man's job.  I might let them bark at a hog in a trailer or pen or whatever before that, maybe get in a pen with a hog but not much for serious hunting.  I do like to take them for walks in the woods, rides on four wheelers etc. before that though.  I would like the actual hunting to be the only new thing when I take them hunting for the first time. 

[NechesBobcat]

I agree Catchrcall. I spend a lot of time getting them used to loading up and going places and working on a few commands and body language before they actually hunt.

My old yellow dog was almost 3 years old before he really turned on. I had pretty much given up on makin him a hog dog and was fine just keeping him as a pet and one day he decided he would hunt hogs. The old man I got him from kept telling me to be patient with him and he was right. His father was the same way. He would stay right under your feet until he was 2 years old. Then he made the best hog dog I've ever seen. I've had some that acted like they were maturing a lot faster but always had some other problem they couldn't get over and usually went down hill instead of getting better. I prefer a late bloomer and to take my time training a dog.

[ric.o]

when to train is different depending on the dog. which in turn goes back to genetics-linebreeding.
joey denison introduced his pups at 2 months to a pig. every couple weeks they went back . he documented this very well and if at 6 months they werent getting it done the were a cull. and he only bred the best. thats what made his bloodline so strong. this way has been proven over and over thru the years.cant argue that point b/c it works. so if u have to feed a dog till 18 months just to knowwhetner or not it will hunt. You are already losing time and money. I would consider a different pound or walmart.

[let-em-go-10]

when to train is different depending on the dog. which in turn goes back to genetics-linebreeding.
joey denison introduced his pups at 2 months to a pig. every couple weeks they went back . he documented this very well and if at 6 months they werent getting it done the were a cull. and he only bred the best. thats what made his bloodline so strong. this way has been proven over and over thru the years.cant argue that point b/c it works. so if u have to feed a dog till 18 months just to knowwhetner or not it will hunt. You are already losing time and money. I would consider a different pound or walmart.

So was he just culling crappy dogs, no it was probably just his style of his breeding program. Who to say that those dogs that were culled early wouldn't of been better than the ones that started early. So someone might consider a slow starter for there program normal and other breeder not.

So is it genetics or training

[let-em-go-10]

I forgot to put lol  . I myself am not going to wait 2 years but some folks do.

[ric.o]

like most good hog doggers u could make a pack out of his culls and mine too. it depens on whaat level of hog dog u have. I give mine to 9 months. if they arent baying right and hunting with the big dogs. then off to the farmer in atmore. when i first started I would get all the culls from around me. I later culled a bunch and fed way to many dogs for far to long. I now hunt on a better level. but Im getting better each year.

[let-em-go-10]

Me personally I don't spend hardly ann money off a wal-mart parking lot dog or a pound dog if he doesn't work. I try him 2-3 times and if he don't show interest he off to the the farm lol. So I might spend 8 cups of dog food. So if u waiting months to see if a wal-mart dog works well shame on u. Everybodies different that's what makes it I fun.

[Reuben]

when to train is different depending on the dog. which in turn goes back to genetics-linebreeding.
joey denison introduced his pups at 2 months to a pig. every couple weeks they went back . he documented this very well and if at 6 months they werent getting it done the were a cull. and he only bred the best. thats what made his bloodline so strong. this way has been proven over and over thru the years.cant argue that point b/c it works. so if u have to feed a dog till 18 months just to knowwhetner or not it will hunt. You are already losing time and money. I would consider a different pound or walmart.

Ric.o,

This breeder you are talking about culls at 6 months...more than likely he wants the very best. Early starters beget more early starters, but it does not mean the other pups won't turn on at 1 year old.

Most breeders when needing one dog for breeding/hunting should test the pups and cull down to four or five pups or so when selecting for that one (testing). As the pups get older cull down some more. By the time the pups are 6 months old that good breeder should be down to 3 pups and by 10 months old should be down to 2 or 1 pup.

I like a pup that can show me some good things at 6 months but I want a pup that is hunting pretty good by 10 months and for sure by 1 year. When I use the word culling I ean that the pup is not meeting the ctiteria at a given time (age versus level of progression). The older the cull the better the pup should be in this case.

Life is too short to be waiting on a dog to see if it will turn on or not...Most folks don't have the space for this type of dog or the money to keep feeding this questionable dog.

[North Cedar Creek Ranch]

Three years waiting on a dog to turn on, Nah not here.  Mine r hitn the woods at six months and better b getn it done at 1 r 1 1/2.  I have before sent pups to my dad to b worked on cows till there about a year old and then introduce em to the woods and have not had any problems.  No offense but waiting three years for a dog to leave ur feet is not what i want in my bloodline.

[Centexhogdogger]

my main dog right now was stirken hogs and hunting 600+ yards at 6 months.
 
i like early starters just cause there not as stressful but when they start late they got better handle.

so idc aslong as they start

[catchrcall]

I'm not in any hurry.  I don't breed my own dogs, and I don't start more than one pup at a time if I can help it.  I've got a dog that is two now, and is doing real well in the woods but around six-nine months he wouldn't hardly bark at a shoat in a trailer when I showed him one(my Cleatus dog for those that have seen him).  We started him I think right at a year and within a couple months he was starting to find a hog or two.  If I'd have gotten impatient and culled I'd have been out a good dog.  For me it's worth the wait to see if they are going to turn out rather than go to culling before a dog has even come close to maturing.  

[TexasHogDogs]

I think I need to just cull my whole yard,  pups at six months striking hogs and going a mile out staying a couple hours holding hogs.  Culling babies under a  year old, hell mine are just starting to learn what it is all about at those tender ages might have one stumble up on a hog here and there but he damn sure don't really know what he is doing yet it would be just his genetics kicking in and him learning what he was born to do.

I hardly believe a damn thing I hear so till I see it with my own eyes and on a steady term its just all talk and conversation.

I guess my pot licker's better step it up and me too for that matter with dogs like these being born and seem to be at a alarming rate ain't gonna be many hogs left for mine to find here in a couple years.

Were might a man inquire about some of these dogs?

[matt_aggie04]

I will take a fast starting dog any day of the week, I respect what some have seen but if I am going to feed it it needs to start early and keep improving.

Mike are we gonna have to put you on probation for stirring the pot 

[Mike]

I will take a fast starting dog any day of the week, I respect what some have seen but if I am going to feed it it needs to start early and keep improving.

Mike are we gonna have to put you on probation for stirring the pot 

Ha ha ha... ain't no pot stirring here, just good discussion. It's unfortunate that some can't have a good discussion without getting all wadded up.