Hogdog culls or Cowdog gold

[FLBayNSlay]

I do know that Randy Wright breeds for the all around dog. If everyone who buys his line of dogs followed his methods then the majority of those Ben dogs would be top all around dogs. The problem is that when someone gets a pup that is a cull they breed it because it is a ben bred dog and they will get there money back and then some, thus, there goes the line of dogs that Randy has culled hard for.

One of my hunting buddies dad raises quite a few PBR bulls, and he just traded Randy a few bulls for quite a few dogs....
Included in this deal was a "STUD" dog, a "BROOD" bitch

According to him, the Stud and the Brood have had no type of hunting experience... So why are they being used for breeding?
They may be out of proven lines, but neither have proved themselves...

If hes breeding dogs with no experience, exactly how "proven" is his line??

That easy, his line is 100% proven.....  It's proven to make $$$$$

Exactly!!! 

Most of these big breeders are breeding for papers and looks, which is worthless in the woods, besides having a good looking dog under your feet.... 

I forgot to mention that a young well started cowdog was included in the deal, and he wont even look at a cow.. 
I wonder if he is out of the Stud or Brood they got??  I may have to look into this alittle more...

You need to open your eyes and look at it alot more kid, Larry Parker, Gary Campbell, Randy Wright, the list goes on......all use Brood gyps. I know alot of ppl that do this and produce consistent hog dogs.

[Mike]

Y'all better get the post back on track or I'm gonna do some culling.

Y'all want to call names and talk bad about each others dogs, pick up the phone.

[t.wilbanks]

  All of them will find and bay hogs, cattle, they will tree coons or possums, they would probly run a bear if I put them on it  I consider them trash broke because when I go to hunt hogs they know were hunting hogs.

-No I dont put them on a possum track or a coon track purposely 

       So how can you consider them trash broke if they tree coons and possums when thats not what you purposely put them on??? 

Your post are like the Starburst commercials, a big contradiction... 

Well while your watching Starburst commercials little guy im out hunting my trashy dogs. Im not gonna lie and say my dogs are completly trash broke. I like to think they are but if a deer runs right in front of them they will chase it a bit. If were not hog hunting and Im letting them run around they will chase a possum or coon if its in my yard.

What about your dogs? I never hear you talk about them? Saw your FB you look like Opie Taylor off Andy Griffith NO hog pics, NO dog pics. What are you one of these internet Cowboys little Trent.

Another thing I saw you talking about Randy Wright's dogs on the last page, have you had one and culled it? Have you tried several and they didnt work? please let me know your opinion on his dogs since your the expert. I personally know Randy and talk to him once in awhile. I know he breeds for $$$$ but he also has a few good dogs.

      Your a funny guy.... go check my facebook and look through my old post and you will see my hogs/dogs....  

you said it yourself, He breeds for $$$$ but he also has some good dogs.... the good ones he must keep to himself...  Ive seen enough of his dogs to know im not wasting my money on them...  

You can "THINK" what ever you want to, but the fact is, and the words came out of your mouth, your dogs are TRASHY.. how the hell can  you call a dog trash broke if they run deer, coons, possums, etc......    

You continue to contradict yourself... I may look like Opie, but your the one that continues to make your self look retarded....  

Go have a starburst...

[t.wilbanks]

Y'all better get the post back on track or I'm gonna do some culling.

Y'all want to call names and talk bad about each others dogs, pick up the phone.

Im done Mike, Sorry!!     

[Mike]

Y'all better get the post back on track or I'm gonna do some culling.

Y'all want to call names and talk bad about each others dogs, pick up the phone.

Im done Mike, Sorry!!     

You should have thought about that before you made your last post.

[FLBayNSlay]

Didnt mean to get off topic Mike sorry about that YELLOWBLACKMASK!

All I was simply trying to say is my dogs will do a variety of different things. Wilbanks your right there not 100 percent trash broke, But like I said I never had a problem with them running or treeing anything while we are hog hunting. I believe they know were lookin for hogs when they get in that dog box and put that Garmin on.

I dont know much about who has better yellow dogs out of Oklahoma or Tx but I do know Oklahoma is gettin that tail whooped against Florida State  and maybe the Longhorns will pick it up this year. lol

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Im not the administrator so no apologies needed.  I would venture to say this topic obviously has some strong opinions, which is exactly why I wanted to bring it up. I would urge everyone with an ongoing interest to continue posting their side. I will personally request that we keep the jabs and breeder opinions within the parameters of what is acceptable.  

I would be more interested in your own personal line or individual dogs.  

[Bigdog]

not wanting trouble just asking,mike if someone gets off topic or get mean or rude do u erase there post or kick them off the board and how many people can do this.

[Mike]

not wanting trouble just asking,mike if someone gets off topic or get mean or rude do u erase there post or kick them off the board and how many people can do this.

If people can't post respectfully, they get kicked off the board. Some people like to push it right to the edge without going over... too much of that is not tolerated either.

It's real simple and easy to get along on here, some folks just don't get it.

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

According to the polls. We have more that would completely cull without a cowdog trial. Let me throw a reverse question. Do we have any professional cowmen that make your living punching cows.  The question being would you entertain the thought of cross utilizing a dog primarily out of hogdog stock that had promising potential of working cows.

What are your thoughts?

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

A cow dog has got to be pretty good at alot of different things this style is what sets it apart from a straight hog dog in most cases.

A cow dog needs to:
Hunt deep
Run a track and wind cattle
Have the drive to bunch cattle
Work the herd with a lot of circle
Never bite a cow that is in contact with the herd
Bite every cow that leaves the herd and stay hooked no matter what untill that cow returns to the herd or is caught
Needs to understand a settled bay and loosen up, even ranging out to look for more cattle
Needs good handle and can be called out from any distance
Needs to be able to lead cattle and control a drive from the front
must be heat tolerant with a lot of drive and go
Must understand pressure and never brake a set of bayed cattle by biting in the herd

Most hog dogs do not have all these traits because they have not been selected for this type of style, I would never breed to a Hog dog that was not well proven in these areas and I would have to see them work a set of tough cows.

[Reuben]

as you can see I borrowed this from the post above from Silverton...

A hog dog needs to:
Hunt deep
Run a track and wind hogs
Have the drive to bunch hogs or stick with one until stopped and bayed.
Stand back and bay without intimidating the hogs
Bite any hog that leaves the herd and stay hooked no matter what untill that hog returns to the herd or is caught
Needs to understand a settled bay and loosen up
must be heat tolerant with a lot of drive and go
Must understand pressure and never break a set of bayed hogs by biting in the herd

That is more or less the perfect hog dog in my book. As you can see the traits are similar but the list is shorter for the hog dog.

I know of 2 brothers that have a line of curs that hunt well and they use these same hog dogs to work and catch cattle. I hear that their dogs are exactly what Silverton describes as to what a good cow dog should be...It is my belief that to have dogs that work equally well on both hog and cattle must be worked on a regular basis to get the best results and of course must have the breeding or at least have a proven dog.

This pretty much should answer the question... "Hog dog Culls Or Cowdog Gold"? If it is a cull for a hog dog then it should be a cull for a cow dog. and visa versa

However, I would buy a hog dog pup from a long line of good hog dogs, and, if I wanted a good cow dog prospect I would buy a pup from a long line of proven cow dog stock of my liking...

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

You guys are giving exceptional info and views but will throw another head scratcher into the mix. Both of your lists I agree and personally relate to. But both lists in my opinion are almost identical minus a few tactical preferences.  And again I would never be furthering the discussion without personally witnessing dogs in both lines that have a distinct prefererence for one but not the other. These are long proven lines from both sides of the fence.

Anyway great discussion. Let's here from a few more cowmen and see if the thoughts differ or stay the same.

So far this post has not let me down on great opinions. Good stuff guys.

[waylon-N.E. OK]

I don't work cattle enough to consider myself a " Cowman " so I can't speak to much on that. We take about 2000 steers out of florida a year but there kept in pastures around 300 acres each and there not hard to find when there bawling behind the feed truck.

Paul I will say though we have the same type of dog in mind for cattle, really that's about what I expect from my hog dogs as well. The tuff part about it is there are not enough people breeding or working that type of dog today. I see the catahoula breed headed in a direction where there main focus is winning they bay pens. I see the yeller dog crowd as a whole focused on either hogs or cattle and not both. The tuff part for me is finding men who breed all around working cur dogs, or what we call in my country " Head dogs " to produce that type  time after time. You gotta outcross sometime, even as tight as I believe in breeding you do have to breed out after a while and where do you go to find that " all around  " type of dog to outcross with?

[OWL Black Mouth Curs]

Times two on silverton... Well rounded list.

I'll add to the list another trait I love to see in a cowdog, that I believe a hog dog should possess as well.

The ability to assess a situation without hesitation on both livestock and people, then make the correct decision on how to respond to it.  I love a dog that reads livestock. Constantly one step ahead at chess. They Got to have intelligence.

I won't switch dogs I don't like on cows over to hogs, I'll typically not like them on hogs for the same reasons I did not like them on cattle... Some do like a hog better, but their faults as cowdogs still shine through as hog dogs, it seems like.

[waylon-N.E. OK]

The ability to assess a situation without hesitation on both livestock and people, then make the correct decision on how to respond to it.  I love a dog that reads livestock. Constantly one step ahead at chess. They Got to have intelligence.

Excellent point and I agree 100%

[Reuben]

I don't work cattle enough to consider myself a " Cowman " so I can't speak to much on that. We take about 2000 steers out of florida a year but there kept in pastures around 300 acres each and there not hard to find when there bawling behind the feed truck.

 I see the catahoula breed headed in a direction where there main focus is winning they bay pens.

I saw 25 years ago that the average catahoula was untouchable in the BAY PEN.  

[SCHitemHard]

ive never had a cow dog, ive had some hog dog culls that worked for me

but i had a collie growing up that would try and herd me and my friends when we would go out and ride dirt bikes and atvs so thats bout the closest thing i got

[warrent423]

Times two on silverton... Well rounded list.

I'll add to the list another trait I love to see in a cowdog, that I believe a hog dog should possess as well.

The ability to assess a situation without hesitation on both livestock and people, then make the correct decision on how to respond to it.  I love a dog that reads livestock. Constantly one step ahead at chess. They Got to have intelligence.

I won't switch dogs I don't like on cows over to hogs, I'll typically not like them on hogs for the same reasons I did not like them on cattle... Some do like a hog better, but their faults as cowdogs still shine through as hog dogs, it seems like.

Good stuff right there

[levibarcus]

This thread has been a very entertaining way to spend a rainy, yes I said rainy, saturday morning! I sure could have used some of the cowdogs like silverton described a couple days ago. I have never had the privilege of working with good cow dogs. I have worked with some guys who had dogs that bayed cows, but not with any that were the type described here. Quality dogs fascinate me. One day I would like to join a gather where these kind of dogs are used. This is very informative, I'm all ears!