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rdjustham
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« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2011, 01:22:05 pm » |
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Dont know if it was asked or not but since im in the middle of no where with nothing but my phone i skipped ahead. Where the bitches "bob" was bread to the last two times related and how many "squirrel" dogs were in the litter the bitches came from? Could be "bob" aint responsible. That bein said maybe he is but would the cross be worth it for 2 you cull and say 3 or more you dont?
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Noah
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« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2011, 02:09:29 pm » |
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Like silverton said, I don't mind a high cull ratio as long as I get that "one" I was after... As for "Bob", the gene is def coming from him.
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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Bryant
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« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2011, 02:47:12 pm » |
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Not saying this is definately the case for you Noah, but in breeding I think people sometimes are blinded by the dog in front of them. Got to remember when you choose to breed to a particular dog, what your breeding to is everything that's behind that dog. Male dog might be the best thing since sliced bread, but what were his littermates like...parents like...etc. If it turns out kick-butt dog is somewhat of a freak...littermates and parents weren't much count, then as good as the dog is I wouldn't expect too much from the pairing. Same with demeanor...if Bob's rough as a cob, but majority of dogs in his lineage are not, I'd take my chances.
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A truly rich man is one whose children rush to fill his arms even though his hands are empty.
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Noah
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« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2011, 03:06:08 pm » |
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His background is fine, dog just apparently throws too many squirrels for them... He throws gorgeous pups from what I've seen... He's obviously a strong breeder, just that one little kink to weed out  |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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Reuben
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« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2011, 03:12:46 pm » |
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His background is fine, dog just apparently throws too many squirrels for them... He throws gorgeous pups from what I've seen... He's obviously a strong breeder, just that one little kink to weed out it is better to breed out one fault than 4...  |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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T-Bob Parker
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« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2011, 03:23:08 pm » |
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Look, this is a pretty easy dilemma in reality. Just get a turkey baster full of water so that you can thin down the squirrelly.  |
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Windows Down, Waylon Up.
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Noah
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« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2011, 06:29:33 pm » |
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Brings up a thought I have been mulling over for some time...(plenty of time to mull with deer season in full swing ya know  )... I think the reasons you are breeding have a lot to do with what dogs you choose to cross up... ... For me, there will always be a high cull rate... no matter the quality of the litter, some will always stand out from the rest... I breed to create a better dog(maybe 2) for ME to hunt... and that's it.... SO... high percentages are great for those who are raising a litter to sell and maybe keep one or two out of but that is not as much concern to me... Obviously, one would like to see consistency/uniformity, showing strong genetic prepotency... ..however... some people seem to just keep breeding the same junk over, and over, and over, and OVER again... hoping that somehow some gene will mutate and pop up somehow in a sea of the same... ... and then there are those that go through life with their eyes open... looking... STUDYING... every single animal that crosses their path... When this type of person sees a "freak"... they see the possibility to IMPROVE what it is that they're after... even if it means that it might take a LOT of culling to pull that trait out... SOME TRAITS ARE WORTH ALL THE TROUBLE... That is... if you're really trying to create something better... |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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Noah
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« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2011, 06:51:04 pm » |
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it is better to breed out one fault than 4... Something else I'm seeing... is it appears to be easier to breed things "out" than "in"... |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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LionandBoarHunter
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« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2011, 06:56:25 pm » |
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it is better to breed out one fault than 4... Something else I'm seeing... is it appears to be easier to breed things "out" than "in"... Noah just breed some good running hound in them and all your squirrel problems will go away |
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They Call It The Hill Country I Call It Home !
The more people I'm around the more I like my dogs !!
ROOT HOG OR DIE
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Reuben
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« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2011, 07:21:34 pm » |
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They say that all dogs came from the wolf...so we have a wiener dog, great dane, and a collie. They look very different from each other. That right their says a lot to me about genetics...
Some say you can only breed as good as the sire and dam and I do agree with that... However, I believe that some think it is what they see in the sire and dam and that is partially true...but it is what we don't see that that we need to watch out for...that is why some breeders can breed a line or a strain of dogs that improve with every generation and another breeder can take the same dogs and take that line of dogs in another direction.
It is just as important to select the pups correctly as it is to start with the best breeding stock available...if not more so...
A good example would be...
one breeder sees a 6 month old puppy as very trashy treeing coons and running a deer for an hour running alone and culls him...
Another breeder has the exact same pup and he gets very excited with this trashy pup...he is thinking that he has an early starting star pup (natural) that wants game...has a good nose and can locate game and stick with it etc. etc... He keeps the pup in hopes of using him as a breeder to improve the bloodline...
This example explains a few reasons of many as to why we have so much variation in our hunting dogs...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Noah
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« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2011, 07:22:20 pm » |
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HAHA, Jess, I done decided yall can have that bottom... cuz it ain't for me...
Places I get asked to hunt keep requesting my short range, rough dogs... get it done or go home. No tracking for hours, no sitting on your ass wondering what your dog is doing/ whose property they might be on...
I'm sticking with short and rough, just the way it has to be for where I hunt....
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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Noah
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« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2011, 07:27:50 pm » |
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They say that all dogs came from the wolf...so we have a wiener dog, great dane, and a collie. They look very different from each other. That right their says a lot to me about genetics...
Some say you can only breed as good as the sire and dam and I do agree with that... However, I believe that some think it is what they see in the sire and dam and that is partially true...but it is what we don't see that that we need to watch out for...that is why some breeders can breed a line or a strain of dogs that improve with every generation and another breeder can take the same dogs and take that line of dogs in another direction.
It is just as important to select the pups correctly as it is to start with the best breeding stock available...if not more so...
A good example would be...
one breeder sees a 6 month old puppy as very trashy treeing coons and running a deer for an hour running alone and culls him...
Another breeder has the exact same pup and he gets very excited with this trashy pup...he is thinking that he has an early starting star pup (natural) that wants game...has a good nose and can locate game and stick with it etc. etc... He keeps the pup in hopes of using him as a breeder to improve the bloodline...
This example explains a few reasons of many as to why we have so much variation in our hunting dogs...
Which is EXACTLY what makes this so rewarding to me... choosing the right genes out of a line can create a completely different animal quite quickly... |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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cward
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« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2011, 07:49:36 pm » |
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Noah some of the goofest wildest dogs I have seen raised were the best to hunt behind . There was an,old cowboy around here that would back his trailer to his dog pens and they would jump in then when done working they would load in the trailer I ask him,why they were that way he said hell I I'm that way let me do my job and don't get in my way or I will bite you.
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Hog hunting can start more crap than anything I have ever seen!(HDLCrystal)
Remember John Wayne was just an actor the real cowboys is who he looked up to..........
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Noah
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« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2011, 08:05:24 pm » |
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HAHAHA... very good point |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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hogaholicswife
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« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2011, 08:37:00 pm » |
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We have a little 'squirrel factor' in some of our dogs. Three of the younger dogs give you that coyote slink when we are outside and bring someone into the yard they do not recognize.....they trot off looking back over their shoulders soon to disappear.
If you come to the gate and they happen to be out but us inside, it is a different story....point of the story you will never get your hands on any of them and we like it that way.
I have to put most of them up to get my hands on them as they will not freely come to me (they will come to my husband) but all I have to do is open their pens or dog box and tell them to load up, there is no heistation.
The one thing I will not tolerate though in the 'squirrel factor' is once I put my hands on them they are expected to let me do what ever I need to with out the hesitation of being bitten or snapped at. I expect them to let me do what ever I want with little to no restraint.
The downside to this is strange people and even strange dogs can affect the way they hunt and at times it is extremely frustrating but we do not hunt with 'strangers' often so it doesn't affect us too often.
There is a male down south named Bob (must be a name thing) who is extremely cantankerous, he is a hunting machine but he may tolerate you one minute and is liable to bite you the next. If you walk up to his pen he is liable to eat you up but you put him in the woods and he is fine....so long as you keep your hands off of him, if he wants your attention you will know it.
We are close to endeavoring on collecting our Goober dog, I haven't found a female yet that compliments him and for what it is probably going to cost / take I am not banking on a crap shoot lol. He is the polar opposite of the 'squirrel factor' but comes from the same line of dogs and everyone wishes we could clone him / turn back the clock....I wonder if they could flush your Shine dog - have you ever thought about going that route?
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Noah
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« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2011, 08:46:40 pm » |
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Tell me more about Goober |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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Trey
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« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2011, 08:50:37 pm » |
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"Most people will never produce GREAT dogs because they are too afraid of producing crappy ones... if you expect perfection you will always be disappointed. When it comes to life... there is no failure, there is only learning... and when you’re learning you’re succeeding! " Enos
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ole shep
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« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2011, 08:51:07 pm » |
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The horse secretariat intrigues me. But I know there are dogs and horse that just never get the chance.Or possible belong to someone that doesn't care whether anybody knows he got one.I'm a little off subject again but now you got me to thinking what would you tolerate ? How much time would you spend?
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There is nothing a dip of snuff won't make better. Bow hunter. Bend it and send it. WWT approved
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Noah
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« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2011, 08:57:43 pm » |
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"Most people will never produce GREAT dogs because they are too afraid of producing crappy ones... if you expect perfection you will always be disappointed. When it comes to life... there is no failure, there is only learning... and when you’re learning you’re succeeding! " Enos
Excellent quote... The horse secretariat intrigues me. But I know there are dogs and horse that just never get the chance.Or possible belong to someone that doesn't care whether anybody knows he got one.I'm a little off subject again but now you got me to thinking what would you tolerate ? How much time would you spend?
I will always tolerate the means to an end... and will continue to do so, for as long as I have the time... |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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Reuben
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« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2011, 09:15:26 pm » |
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when evaluating a young dog we must also take into consideration the hunting time it has as well as the handlers style/experience...we must be able to look past what our eyes can see or we just might miss that pup with the natural hunting aility. getting off subject but this is something I have experienced and I had to say it... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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