Purebreds or Crosses

[Miller Lite]

I've had the crosses an everything but I sure do like them yella dogs 

[BIG CHRIS]

I guess I might explain some.

I like crossed dogs but I like familys of cross dogs.  In other words even tho they are not pure bred this are that bmc, cats, plotts - I know were the father mother bro sister aunt uncle half bro half sister and more relitves are and even tho they are not pure bred I can tell you there are lines of these kind of dogs that is just as strong are stronger as any purebreds and produce just as good are better.

X2 you just put a little more explantion then i did!!!

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Well for the purpose of argument I attempted to find a cross that would suit me. But according to Wikipedia YELLOW is a primary color that cannot be created by mixing any other colors. 


Soooooo guess I will have to stay with a primary vs a secondary.   LOL

[ETHHunters]

Between me and my buddy we have several cross dogs that look exactly like yellow bmc. Makes them extra special yellars when they got that touch of hound!

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Between me and my buddy we have several cross dogs that look exactly like yellow bmc. Makes them extra special yellars when they got that touch of hound!

No Cheating!   Take the sheep skins off the wolves!   

[Scott]

a x breed every time ..take into count i havent seen a plott. curr or the like but here are some of the reasons most of the pure breeds look or do very little for what they were originally intended for because of a breeders desire to accentuate the asthetic characteristic of the breed allthough  the stabilized chararacteristic will remain eg lab =bird dog retreiver loves water .the thing you get with a cross is hybrid vigor ..a stronger draw on traits  dont get me wrong your going to get your duds but youll end up with some exseptinal dogs if you know what you are doing

Does that hybrid vigor carry on after the F1 cross? Do they produce consistently when bred in the F2-F4 an on?

I guess I might explain some.

I like crossed dogs but I like familys of cross dogs.  In other words even tho they are not pure bred this are that bmc, cats, plotts - I know were the father mother bro sister aunt uncle half bro half sister and more relitves are and even tho they are not pure bred I can tell you there are lines of these kind of dogs that is just as strong are stronger as any purebreds and produce just as good are better.

At what point does a "cross" become a "purebred"? If the family of crossed dogs have been worked hard and culled hard and now are producing consistently...should it not be considered "purebred"? I don't think the consistency would be obtained in only a generation or two...

[TexasHogDogs]

At what point does a "cross" become a "purebred"? If the family of crossed dogs have been worked hard and culled hard and now are producing consistently...should it not be considered "purebred"? I don't think the consistency would be obtained in only a generation or two...

I could not anwser that correctly ,  Don't know.

[pigrig]

well here is my other day job i also  work for a genitic company maiting dairy cows our 3 base heards in nz are holstiens.jerseys ..and x breeds 1st crosses by far outproduce the other 2 breeds here lies the problem what next.this is wear genetics get real tricky and requires a fair bit of experties

[TexasHogDogs]

Take that first best cross dog and breed it right back into your best family dog and keep going back into the family till nature tells you to cross again .

There are many different ways of doing this.  With family dogs that have a little cross in them are into pure family dogs are into family dogs that are crossed themselves but you better know what clicks and what don't that is when you as a breeder find out if you are a pretender are a contender !

[pigrig]

At what point does a "cross" become a "purebred"? If the family of crossed dogs have been worked hard and culled hard and now are producing consistently...should it not be considered "purebred"? I don't think the consistency would be obtained in only a generation or two...

I could not anwser that correctly ,  Don't know.

when a breed is stabalized ..consistantly produces the same genetic traits  eg coulor shape size ect this is usually done by breeders line breeding [ moore pc than saying in breed]

[make-em-squeel]

FACT: If its not linebred, be it a mut or purebred, you wont get consistant results from litter to litter with the exception of most CD breeds. Ive seen as many 1/2 hounds sit at your feet as I have pure curs etc. Line bred dogs are the only way to do it intellegently and consistantly. Otherwise one bad night in the woods and your back on "bay dog" getting riped off until you get lucky

[make-em-squeel]

a x breed every time ..take into count i havent seen a plott. curr or the like but here are some of the reasons most of the pure breeds look or do very little for what they were originally intended for because of a breeders desire to accentuate the asthetic characteristic of the breed allthough  the stabilized chararacteristic will remain eg lab =bird dog retreiver loves water .the thing you get with a cross is hybrid vigor ..a stronger draw on traits  dont get me wrong your going to get your duds but youll end up with some exseptinal dogs if you know what you are doing

Does that hybrid vigor carry on after the F1 cross? Do they produce consistently when bred in the F2-F4 an on?

I guess I might explain some.

I like crossed dogs but I like familys of cross dogs.  In other words even tho they are not pure bred this are that bmc, cats, plotts - I know were the father mother bro sister aunt uncle half bro half sister and more relitves are and even tho they are not pure bred I can tell you there are lines of these kind of dogs that is just as strong are stronger as any purebreds and produce just as good are better.

At what point does a "cross" become a "purebred"? If the family of crossed dogs have been worked hard and culled hard and now are producing consistently...should it not be considered "purebred"? I don't think the consistency would be obtained in only a generation or two...

I dont know you personally but can say I always respect your post and reasoning. Dont always agree but mostly do.

[TexasHogDogs]

FACT: If its not linebred, be it a mut or purebred, you wont get consistant results from litter to litter with the exception of most CD breeds. Ive seen as many 1/2 hounds sit at your feet as I have pure curs etc. Line bred dogs are the only way to do it intellegently and consistantly. Otherwise one bad night in the woods and your back on "bay dog" getting riped off until you get lucky

Yes Sir !  I bred dogs for a long long time and I have found that Linebreeding with some inbreeding for speical purposes and then breeding to the correct outcross for Hybird Vigor to produce Hi Performace dogs is by for the best and most consistent way to producing good precentages of Hi Quality working dogs all threw the breeding process from the first linebreeding to the inbreeding and then to the outcross and back to the family.  I have seen many many people bred best to best and produce great dogs also but they have to wade threw a lot of not so good dogs to get the great ones most the time there is no inbetween gold are chit ,  then again its just finding a click if you find that click that works weather If it be best to best are threw a family breeding program put on a out cross you stick with that click and breed it to over and over,  I have seen folks hit pure gold doing this and never look back .  One way is not everybodys way and then everybodys way is not another mans way .  Two things that is born with a dog man that is brought out threw hands on experence and time  and It  cannot be taught , that is a eye for a dog and a gut feeling for a breeding.  You got either one of them and you are well on your way.

[Reuben]

I agree there are good ones from both types. My preference is full blood as stated from above for the consistency.

If you find your full blood strain not being consistent its time to check the quality of your blood or your culling methods.

x2 on the culling methods for sure...that is where the majority fail...

[arrowbar]

I agree there are good ones from both types. My preference is full blood as stated from above for the consistency.

If you find your full blood strain not being consistent its time to check the quality of your blood or your culling methods.

x2 on the culling methods for sure...that is where the majority fail...

Don't forget about training methods, operator error has ruined a good percentage of pups

[Reuben]

FACT: If its not linebred, be it a mut or purebred, you wont get consistant results from litter to litter with the exception of most CD breeds. Ive seen as many 1/2 hounds sit at your feet as I have pure curs etc. Line bred dogs are the only way to do it intellegently and consistantly. Otherwise one bad night in the woods and your back on "bay dog" getting riped off until you get lucky

Yes Sir !  I bred dogs for a long long time and I have found that Linebreeding with some inbreeding for speical purposes and then breeding to the correct outcross for Hybird Vigor to produce Hi Performace dogs is by for the best and most consistent way to producing good precentages of Hi Quality working dogs all threw the breeding process from the first linebreeding to the inbreeding and then to the outcross and back to the family.  I have seen many many people bred best to best and produce great dogs also but they have to wade threw a lot of not so good dogs to get the great ones most the time there is no inbetween gold are chit ,    Two things that is born with a dog man that is brought out threw hands on experence and time  and It  cannot be taught , that is a eye for a dog and a gut feeling for a breeding.  You got either one of them and you are well on your way.

this is half of it...the other half is picking the right pups...just as important as the breeding...

like arrow is saying... dog handling can make a great dog greater or the same dog can ruined in the wrong hands...

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

I agree there are good ones from both types. My preference is full blood as stated from above for the consistency.

If you find your full blood strain not being consistent its time to check the quality of your blood or your culling methods.

x2 on the culling methods for sure...that is where the majority fail...

Don't forget about training methods, operator error has ruined a good percentage of pups

Yep I will agree that also has a big part as well.  But can't put the cart before the horse. 

[pigrig]

FACT: If its not linebred, be it a mut or purebred, you wont get consistant results from litter to litter with the exception of most CD breeds. Ive seen as many 1/2 hounds sit at your feet as I have pure curs etc. Line bred dogs are the only way to do it intellegently and consistantly. Otherwise one bad night in the woods and your back on "bay dog" getting riped off until you get lucky

Yes Sir !  I bred dogs for a long long time and I have found that Linebreeding with some inbreeding for speical purposes and then breeding to the correct outcross for Hybird Vigor to produce Hi Performace dogs is by for the best and most consistent way to producing good precentages of Hi Quality working dogs all threw the breeding process from the first linebreeding to the inbreeding and then to the outcross and back to the family.  I have seen many many people bred best to best and produce great dogs also but they have to wade threw a lot of not so good dogs to get the great ones most the time there is no inbetween gold are chit ,  then again its just finding a click if you find that click that works weather If it be best to best are threw a family breeding program put on a out cross you stick with that click and breed it to over and over,  I have seen folks hit pure gold doing this and never look back .  One way is not everybodys way and then everybodys way is not another mans way .  Two things that is born with a dog man that is brought out threw hands on experence and time  and It  cannot be taught , that is a eye for a dog and a gut feeling for a breeding.  You got either one of them and you are well on your way.

   + 1

[MAV]

halfbreed i been telling you to get you some good yellow dogs and you wont have to breed hounds in those pretty different  colored dogs . 

[Reuben]

FACT: If its not linebred, be it a mut or purebred, you wont get consistant results from litter to litter with the exception of most CD breeds. Ive seen as many 1/2 hounds sit at your feet as I have pure curs etc. Line bred dogs are the only way to do it intellegently and consistantly. Otherwise one bad night in the woods and your back on "bay dog" getting riped off until you get lucky

Yes Sir !  I bred dogs for a long long time and I have found that Linebreeding with some inbreeding for speical purposes and then breeding to the correct outcross for Hybird Vigor to produce Hi Performace dogs is by for the best and most consistent way to producing good precentages of Hi Quality working dogs all threw the breeding process from the first linebreeding to the inbreeding and then to the outcross and back to the family.  I have seen many many people bred best to best andproduce great dogs also but they have to wade threw a lot of not so good dogs to get the great ones most the time there is no inbetween gold are chit ,  then again its just finding a click if you find that click that works weather If it be best to best are threw a family breeding program put on a out cross you stick with that click and breed it to over and over,  I have seen folks hit pure gold doing this and never look back .  One way is not everybodys way and then everybodys way is not another mans way .  Two things that is born with a dog man that is brought out threw hands on experence and time  and It  cannot be taught , that is a eye for a dog and a gut feeling for a breeding.  You got either one of them and you are well on your way.

well said...and i will add, when the blood is tired and we need hybrid vigor look for a dog that already carries half of your line that is what your dogs lack or compliments...if none related look for a good line of dogs and cross to your dogs...either way cull hard and if too many pups are culls for your line then move all the pups..and look elsewhere...if you like the litter then cull hard up to your standards and breed back the half blood back once and then use the quarter blood as you need...that is if you want it to stay your line of dogs..