jaguars(9 species) - east texas black panther

[wolfpen]

http://www.wtblock.com/wtblockjr/jaguar.htm

I know an old timer, 84 years old, who has seen black panthers in several places in the Big Thicket and Little Thicket regions of Southeast Texas throughout the years.  I have wondered if they were jaguarundis(as have prominent biologists of Louisianna), and I have read about the escaped canned hunt leopard theory that prevails.

This is the first I have read about there actually being different species of jaguars, and historically one native mainlty to  texas.  I had always known that jaguars used to range into the southern US.

Last year I saw, for a brief moment, what I figured was probably a cat, that was dark in coloration, and if there are no black melanistic cougars, and it was larger than a jaguarundi, then.............  I only saw it's ass end running away from me on a dirt road about five seconds, at night, I hit the gas, to get a better look, and it was gone in a split second once it turned. 


So have any of you seen black panthers in texas?

[wolfpen]

I imagine that back in the day, pre-1900 in East Texas, mostly any large solid colored cat was probably called a lion or black panther, especially if a spotted cat was called a bengal tiger. 

[jdt]

they are seeing them all over the country . i know 8 or 10 people that have seen them locally , three have game cam pictures of mountain lions . still the wildlife people say they don't exist .

[trapperchick87]

I've wondered if it isnt a genetic mutation like the solid black whitetail deer? I have a friend that got a solid black colored coyote in east texas, is it the same mutaion or was the coyote cross bred with a dog to produce the black fur? so my theroy is: are the mountain lions starting to produce the black color gene, is it a mutation or is it realy a black jaguar? I knida think its genetics at work but would love to see a paper on the gene reserch!

[wine6978]

I, being one of "those wildlife people", agree that they do not exist... HERE. I have heard SSSSOOOO many people who have seen them, but I'm one of those people that don't believe what I hear, I have to see it to believe it. Plus the stories I have heard have been late at night by not so reputable people, a little late at night after a beer or two if you know what I mean. Then when someone tell me "I have proof!!! It is on my game cam!!!" I ask em to see it and you can damn sure clear as day see a black cat off in the distance. And at first I am like wow!!! Then I ask them how tall is the grass they are next to? Then they don't sound so excited when they say knee high. There might be that one lost cat, like Black bears in Carrizo, but they do not call south or east TX home. As far as I know.

[wolfpen]

I consider myself a professional wildlife person, but I don't have a degree in biology or a government job that allows me to officially document a species verified range.  Historically, it is officially verified that jaguars ranged across the southern US.   Jaguars have been videoed and killed in southern New Mexico with increasing frequency. 

I didn't get a good enough look at what I saw last year to say what it was, and I was entirely sober.

Having a degree in biology or even a government job does not make you more knowledgeable than a person with more real time experience in the woods.  The fact of the matter is is that it makes you less knowledgeable, because you think you know what you do not know due to your piece of paper that means jack number 2.

I have schooled state employed biologist endlessly.  Latest was the one that did not know that there are two species of snapping turtle in east texas.  And they should have known especially because of the position that are employed in.

What any old timer, that was in the woods as a kid in the 1920s says is worth a hell of a lot more to me than some nut stain with a worthless piece of paper saying she is an official wildlife person.  Not saying that is you or anybody, but just saying.

[winchester3030]

Dont know if it was a black panther but had a buddys horse cut real bad on his chest a few years back and in the same pasture had found claw marks on a pine tree 8 ft up. the claw marks were wider than what you could spread your fingers.

[wine6978]

I consider myself a professional wildlife person, but I don't have a degree in biology or a government job that allows me to officially document a species verified range.  Historically, it is officially verified that jaguars ranged across the southern US.   Jaguars have been videoed and killed in southern New Mexico with increasing frequency. 

I didn't get a good enough look at what I saw last year to say what it was, and I was entirely sober.

Having a degree in biology or even a government job does not make you more knowledgeable than a person with more real time experience in the woods.  The fact of the matter is is that it makes you less knowledgeable, because you think you know what you do not know due to your piece of paper that means jack number 2.

I have schooled state employed biologist endlessly.  Latest was the one that did not know that there are two species of snapping turtle in east texas.  And they should have known especially because of the position that are employed in.

What any old timer, that was in the woods as a kid in the 1920s says is worth a hell of a lot more to me than some nut stain with a worthless piece of paper saying she is an official wildlife person.  Not saying that is you or anybody, but just saying.

There ain't no need to go getting all crazy with hating on wildlife biologists with "a worthless piece of paper." To me it means a lot. It doesn't make me any smarter than anyone else it just shows that I put the time and effort into getting it. Which now that I graduated makes me wonder why I put that much time into it, but that's another story. The reason I say that I don't think they exist down here in TEXAS is because I have never seen them, nor has any "Professional" that I know personally. I have heard of MANY people say that they MIGHT have seen one, just like your encounter with them. I just go off of the time I have spent on ranches all over south Texas, but I also go off of what well known cat specialists (people that have spent their ENTIRE life studying cats) say. Like I said if I saw one I would be one the "those" people that everyone else thought was nuts, but I have to see it with my own eyes first. And I do agree there are A LOT of people that come out of school with the "know it all attitude." No one knows it all about anything, there are new things being learned everyday!!!

[wolfpen]

as far as being crazy that is the way I was born, through no fault of my own. 

where jaguars are officially verified to exist, they are rarely seen.

[wolfpen]

the paper obviously isn't worthless.  it is worth a great deal, undoubtedly.  i just have a habit, perhaps one I should try harder to curb, about reacting to people that demonstrate the lack of knowledge through the false assumption of knowledge.

what is it that you are saying does not exist? 

obviously large black cat's exist or reputable people wouldn't have been reporting them into the 20th century, the question IS is what are they?

[wine6978]

I don't believe Black Panthers find home in Texas. Now there might have been a few "sightings", just like the lost Black bears in Carrizo Springs. It was also recorded that Antelope were in South Texas, but with the brush changing the way is has free ranging Pronghorn are no longer down here. I believe that last one killed on the King was in the 50s or 70s I don't remember exactly. So the Jaguars that used to be here, which yes they did used to live around here, have been pushed out. Like Ocelots, they like extremely dense brush, but with clearing land like we are they are being pushed out also.

[make-em-squeel]

Ugh.... Guys stick with the facts. There has NEVER been any reputable black cat evidence, NONE, not a even a pic! Think about how many game cams are up. Eye wittness' also see Big Foot to but NO CREDIBLE evidence ever presented. Saying you see black cats around E. Tx is no different than saying you've seen big foot!

Another fact in the court of law is that eye witness testimonies are extremely unreliable!

[wine6978]

But what about Uncle Ned. He ain't never told a lie in his life, and he swore he seen a big ol black panther walk right in front of him and blow him a kiss!!! Haha Just joking around

[wolfpen]

To your knowledge there are no pictures.  Can you think of why someone wouldn't share such undeniable evidence with the general public?

[wolfpen]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread328422/pg1

[jdt]

old timers always said that some panthers were born black . maybe so , maybe they were seeing jaguars .

iknow 3 that have seen a big black cat of some kind that do not lie . one is my preacher who saw it and shot at it after it killed a mare and ate the colt out of her . one is a good friend and 1 of the best people i know . one is my grandmother , if she says she saw a elephant then she saw an elephant .

 i saw one on the dicovery channel that was caught on video tape in pennsylvania . it was exactly the same as what all these " eyewitnesses " have described .   a dark grey / black cat that is knee high with a tail thats longer than the body that crooks at the end .


    i don't know if its a panther , mountain lion , jaguar , jagurundi or what but it DOES EXIST !!!!!

[smarlowe]

Now come on guys leave the squatch outta this. The other night those squatch hunters on tv both heard a knock on a tree !they both heard it at the same time !!!!

[Kessling Kennels]

Im a co-owner in a taxidermy shop that I've had intrest in for 12 yrs now and you would think in 12 yrs as many hunters that are in the woods there would have been someone that would has killed one.

I did know a old timer that had over 40 big cats that he raised mainly Black Leopards,Mt.Lions,Snow Leopards that passed away here about 8 yrs ago and his crazy azz kids just turned all the cats out to the wild. And he was from E.TX.

So there probably some around but I still would think someone would have harvested one over the years.

Same goes for Bigfoot there is more folks looking for BF than ever was looking for Bin Ladin and no one has ever produced one.

[Bigdog]

read a thread about this on biggamehoundmens and the guys that hunt lions all over the U S said they had never treed a black one.not saying they dont exsist but u think all the lion hunters out ther they would have treed one or have pics.i think ther like bigfoot.lol

[ROCKIN ROO HOG DOGS]

I have seen one in east texas with my own eyes,it was black.........it is in the dallas aquarium! Does that count??