Plotts?

[Wmwendler]

ARhogdogs....thank you for directly answering my question

Waylon

[ARhogdogs]

ARhogdogs....thank you for directly answering my question

Waylon

No prob. See these threads all the time go way off cue, I try to stick to the topic at hand.

[chainrated]

See, that there is the problem, up here they are few and far between, and there ain't no catching 10 hogs a day, you got to have a dog that will get out and HUNT a track, and have a cold enough nose to trail them up if you can even find sign to put them on.

TN, when you say get out and hunt, what do you consider getting out and hunting? How far or long do you want a dog to hunt? To me there is a difference in how far a dog will go and how long a dog will stay gone looking for hog. I would rather have a dog that hunted 7-800 yard loops around me than one that will run for 2 miles in a straight line.
And I mean realistically, not any of them dogs that people have that will Never quit a track and will run till they starve to death,lol.. Realistically what do you expect out of a dog as far as how far out they will hunt or how long they will hunt if you cast them where there is NO sign or anything they can smell..Lots of people have different defintions of short , medium and long range dogs.
And of bottom.

[Reuben]

I like the curs to have a good tracking nose and a good winding nose. hunt hard and fast but in 6-8 hundred loops like chainrated is saying. and I want the dog to stick until bayed...but the dog needs to know where to look and find a hog.

[boarpatrol]

Im from Texas and have always ran cur dogs....a few months back i got a plot from Orval...shes a great dog works god with the curs...i dont think it matters cur,plot a good dog is a good dog...

[BigCutters4]

I'm way down south la in the swamp and for the last 15 yrs ran curs recently I've hunted w a friend that have been line breeding plotts for 30 yrs needless to say I am now getting me a few pkotts this breed of dogs he raises is unreal hog hatters

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[hoghunter71409]

Wmwendler, okay, I am a plott man but have a good cur dog.  I can see your point if you have some jam up curs, a few people I know have them also.  I also belong to a couple of other sites and I found this post....what do you think this post made on another sirte?


"my experience. Just got back from a marsh hunt in louisiana. Long story short, river was way up, marsh bad soft and flooded, but i walked after 2 of my reg blackmouth curs 1 mile in to this crap along with a friends curs and 2 plotts. Literally we were just pushing pigs from island to island. I turned around and went bk to the boats,dogs in tow. All peoples dogs were in the boats,except 4 dogs. My 2 male bmcs, who never know what quit means, and they will run and catch a 250lb hog rt on the ear, and big marley my biggest bmc male never lets go until ive stuck the hog. But what amazed me, was XXXXXXXXs 2 young plotts. hell,  they couldnt have been more than a yr old and both were doin everything they could to cross that marsh, and get to them pigs!. Btw, the day b4 i got down there, XXXXXXX hunted opening day with the plotts and 1 cur, they got 15 hogs in only several hrs of hunting. Im gonna say the plott may be the most versatile dog on the planet, but i like my curs too".

I like to hear a bmc cur man say that plotts may be the most versatile dog in the planet.  And for those of you that thing open mouth dogs cant catch more than one hog in a day, I think you might be wrong.

[tnhillbilly]

Matt, 700-800 circles is ideal to me too. Actually the nose and bottom is whats needed most. Ive tried couple different brands of curs, and none of them would hunt out over 200 yrds max. And were hot nosed. You pretty much had to walk them over a hot track, which makes it tough up here in the mtn. Im not knocking curs, I'd still like to find some like I keep hearing about, but like i said before, they are heavily guarded and not available to the public, which I can kind of understand.
    and what I meant by not catching 10 hogs a day, I didnt mean that the hounds couldn't do it, but after running couple miles in these mtns wrestling and tying a hog leading dogs and dragging hog, you wont feel like catching anymore, atleast I don't.
there ain't no roads where I hunt, its all on foot.
   As far as bottom, I want them to stick til it bays or has a heart attack. If I turn loose at daylight, I want them to at least stay hooked til the sun goes down, and im talkin hog and bear both. Some of these guys have dogs that will stay all day and all night, and can go in the next day and track their dogs up and re-pack fresh dogs in. But those are few and far between.
   Hounds just work better up here, just like curs work better down there, the terrain plays a big part. I wouldnt even consider hunting a silent dog up here before the Garmin came out. Since they screwed the hog hunting up, up here I now have to hunt down south, so ive got two bird dog pups, im hoping will give me the range and nose im looking for in a silent dog.

[Wmwendler]

Wmwendler, okay, I am a plott man but have a good cur dog.  I can see your point if you have some jam up curs, a few people I know have them also.  I also belong to a couple of other sites and I found this post....what do you think this post made on another sirte?


"my experience. Just got back from a marsh hunt in louisiana. Long story short, river was way up, marsh bad soft and flooded, but i walked after 2 of my reg blackmouth curs 1 mile in to this crap along with a friends curs and 2 plotts. Literally we were just pushing pigs from island to island. I turned around and went bk to the boats,dogs in tow. All peoples dogs were in the boats,except 4 dogs. My 2 male bmcs, who never know what quit means, and they will run and catch a 250lb hog rt on the ear, and big marley my biggest bmc male never lets go until ive stuck the hog. But what amazed me, was XXXXXXXXs 2 young plotts. hell,  they couldnt have been more than a yr old and both were doin everything they could to cross that marsh, and get to them pigs!. Btw, the day b4 i got down there, XXXXXXX hunted opening day with the plotts and 1 cur, they got 15 hogs in only several hrs of hunting. Im gonna say the plott may be the most versatile dog on the planet, but i like my curs too".

I like to hear a bmc cur man say that plotts may be the most versatile dog in the planet.  And for those of you that thing open mouth dogs cant catch more than one hog in a day, I think you might be wrong.

Honestly.....here is what I think about that post.  If he is bragging that his dog Cur dog will run and catch a 250 lb boar and never let go and he actually wants his dogs to do that, then.......  #1: From the start, I would question his judgement and experience level if he honestly thinks that is a good thing.  It may sound cool, but anyone who has done this very long knows that dogs that don't quit can get out of pocket real quick and that is not practical for one to be caught on a hog that size for very long.  #2 Cur dogs are not catch dogs.  If he means that his cur dogs are initiating a catch which is how I took it then he is hunting with Curs that are in my opinion culls.  Sure some people have curs that do it and want them to.  But..... Cur dogs are not bred for catching they were and are bred to locate and gather up free range livestock.  To the point......In my opinion, he's got poor judgement of dogs and from what little I have to go by lacks experience with hog hunting and livestock in general.  I would not take anything he said seriously.


.......Finally this thread is generating the discussion I was looking for

I do know that hounds can make good hogs dogs.  I have hunted behind good ones as an adult and a child.  My dad hunted with them when I was a kid. But, I just do not prefer them and I honestly think Cur dogs are far better suited for hog hunting than hounds.  Here's why:  First and foremost because thats what they were created for ~150 years ago.  2nd.....Cur dogs are silent on track. Yes you can bay hogs with open dogs but it is not the ideal.  There is no need to give the hogs a heads up that dogs are coming before they even get there.  The hogs WILL start to leave when they hear that coming if they know anything about dogs.  In todays world with the ammount of hog hunters around its hard to find hogs that are not educated.  3rd......Hounds do not have the livestock working instinct that good Cur dogs have. Hogs, no matter how wild they get, will always be livestock and they will always behave like livestock.  A dog with stock working instinct is a definate advantage. 4th.....Curs have a more effecient hunting style.  They hunt for you not for themselves.  There is an understanding that they are there to work with you that I personally have never seen in a hound.  When I unload my cur dogs from the truck, they wait for me to choose a direction and then they hunt out roughly in that direction.  I much prefer this over a dog that leaves out hunting in which ever random direction from the get go.  Thier hunting track follows where I travel.  Now they make their loops, hunting out, which is all on them to choose which way but they loop back in and the general direction that we move in is based off of which way I am traveling.   I Know the areas.  I know where the hogs bed down.  I know where the hogs are hanging from scouting or info from the landowner. I can put them close enough to find sign they will take and put hogs at the end of it.  I can do that faster than I could by takeing a hound and randomly casting them on cold sign.  Thats what I mean by more effectient.  5th... there are those traits that are almost intagible, which I will touch on a little atleast for now.  Things like being aware of multiple hogs and baying them togther on purpose.  I say on purpose becuase It can happen occasionaly by accident with any dogs but a good cur dog with do it on purpose and more often.  That goes back to the livestock working instinct.  Rolling out on the other hogs after you shoot or catch one from the bay.  Being conscious of what thier doing when it comes to multiple hogs and trying to locate the bunch to keep them stopped and together rather than just blindly running the first track they come across.  Those are traits that you find in good cur dogs and why in my opinion they are better suited for hog hunting by a long shot than hounds.


Waylon

[Reuben]

Matt, 700-800 circles is ideal to me too. Actually the nose and bottom is whats needed most. Ive tried couple different brands of curs, and none of them would hunt out over 200 yrds max. And were hot nosed. You pretty much had to walk them over a hot track, which makes it tough up here in the mtn. Im not knocking curs, I'd still like to find some like I keep hearing about, but like i said before, they are heavily guarded and not available to the public, which I can kind of understand.
    and what I meant by not catching 10 hogs a day, I didnt mean that the hounds couldn't do it, but after running couple miles in these mtns wrestling and tying a hog leading dogs and dragging hog, you wont feel like catching anymore, atleast I don't.
there ain't no roads where I hunt, its all on foot.
   As far as bottom, I want them to stick til it bays or has a heart attack. If I turn loose at daylight, I want them to at least stay hooked til the sun goes down, and im talkin hog and bear both. Some of these guys have dogs that will stay all day and all night, and can go in the next day and track their dogs up and re-pack fresh dogs in. But those are few and far between.
   Hounds just work better up here, just like curs work better down there, the terrain plays a big part. I wouldnt even consider hunting a silent dog up here before the Garmin came out. Since they screwed the hog hunting up, up here I now have to hunt down south, so ive got two bird dog pups, im hoping will give me the range and nose im looking for in a silent dog.

Wmwendler, okay, I am a plott man but have a good cur dog.  I can see your point if you have some jam up curs, a few people I know have them also.  I also belong to a couple of other sites and I found this post....what do you think this post made on another sirte?

.......Finally this thread is generating the discussion I was looking for

I do know that hounds can make good hogs dogs.  I have hunted behind good ones as an adult and a child.  My dad hunted with them when I was a kid. But, I just do not prefer them and I honestly think Cur dogs are far better suited for hog hunting than hounds.  Here's why:  First and foremost because thats what they were created for ~150 years ago.  2nd.....Cur dogs are silent on track. Yes you can bay hogs with open dogs but it is not the ideal.  There is no need to give the hogs a heads up that dogs are coming before they even get there.  The hogs WILL start to leave when they hear that coming if they know anything about dogs.  In todays world with the ammount of hog hunters around its hard to find hogs that are not educated.  3rd......Hounds do not have the livestock working instinct that good Cur dogs have. Hogs, no matter how wild they get, will always be livestock and they will always behave like livestock.  A dog with stock working instinct is a definate advantage. 4th.....Curs have a more effecient hunting style.  They hunt for you not for themselves.  There is an understanding that they are there to work with you that I personally have never seen in a hound.  When I unload my cur dogs from the truck, they wait for me to choose a direction and then they hunt out roughly in that direction.  I much prefer this over a dog that leaves out hunting in which ever random direction from the get go.  Thier hunting track follows where I travel.  Now they make their loops, hunting out, which is all on them to choose which way but they loop back in and the general direction that we move in is based off of which way I am traveling.   I Know the areas.  I know where the hogs bed down.  I know where the hogs are hanging from scouting or info from the landowner. I can put them close enough to find sign they will take and put hogs at the end of it.  I can do that faster than I could by takeing a hound and randomly casting them on cold sign.  Thats what I mean by more effectient.  5th... there are those traits that are almost intagible, which I will touch on a little atleast for now.  Things like being aware of multiple hogs and baying them togther on purpose.  I say on purpose becuase It can happen occasionaly by accident with any dogs but a good cur dog with do it on purpose and more often.  That goes back to the livestock working instinct.  Rolling out on the other hogs after you shoot or catch one from the bay.  Being conscious of what thier doing when it comes to multiple hogs and trying to locate the bunch to keep them stopped and together rather than just blindly running the first track they come across.  Those are traits that you find in good cur dogs and why in my opinion they are better suited for hog hunting by a long shot than hounds.


Waylon

T.hillbilly makes some excellent points but then so do you...I will give my point of views and it is somewhere in the middle.

I agree with T.Hillbilly that it is hard to find a good cur dog...I don't have much experience with hounds but back in the 1980's I never really saw a stock breed that I would feed except for 1 bmc. The majority didn't have any range, very hot nose, bout had to stumble over a hog to find one and the ones that hunted sometimes wouldn't find a hog even with fresh sign, but then you turn loose a good dog right behind and in 5 or 10 minutes have one bayed...the dogs that I saw back then that I would feed had walker or plott or redbone in them with some type of cur like cat but usually bmc. They were middle of the road kind of hunting dogs. To this day I don't shop around for a stock bred dog but I am sure there are some real good ones out there but I will say they probably have a hound in the pedigree from way back to have captured some of the hunting traits of the hound. Having said all this I wouldn't keep a hound but would breed to a good one if I needed the hunt and nose.


An open dog can catch lots of hogs if he does not open on a track until he locates and then runs semi silent or opens some but is running to catch or stop the hog. But if the dog opens an an older track and spends 5 or 10 minute locating the exit track then the hog that is dog smart will burn up the woods leaving out. If you listen you might here the sound barrier breaking.

Like I said earlier you can't give me one of those (3) stock dog breeds but that does not mean there are not any good ones out there. But I believe that the percentages are lower to get a good one to hunt as compared to a dog that is bred for hunting.

I remember a time when these guys turned out 2 plotts and they burned a deer or coyote and never saw the dogs again that night and a week later they got their dogs back...I sure don't want a dog like that..that is way too much hunt for me. especially with the tracts of hunting land getting smaller and smaller as they become devided.

Waylon, the way you descibe the cur dog I do like and you must have a good line of curs...

The only way I could get what you describe was by using the mtn cur.

I crossed some bmc once in about 1990 to get a little more size and tighter mouth on the mtn cur. but these mtn curs hunted with me and made the 800 yard loops around me and hunting pretty hard. I say about 4 hundred yards in any direction around me for a total of 800 yards give or take. These dogs when turned loose I had better be ready to go because they were going hunting...but, they would always hunt around the 4 wheeler and always checked in. I hunted 4-6 dogs but if I didn't see a dog in 5 or 10 minutes I stopped and listened and if out of hearing range I would check the tracker. When this happened they were all together running a track or bayed. I would wait a few minutes and check again. If in the same spot it is caught or bayed. if moving then I just moved in that direction at a slower pace...but I always said...if the sign is fresh I gaurantee the hog will be found...and a good cur dog will stick until he can't go anymore or stops the hog...if the cur dog smells the track he will go to the hog even if the hog is a good ways off but usually the hogs will be located within a mile...but might run for many miles after that. but a cur dog that don't hunt like this is a dog that won't stay too long in my yard...that explains why I am still looking for a few dogs right now...

not trying to put down any breed at all but just telling it like I see it...

[jassenswisher1974]

Well ive tried several curs up here, and it just don't work, period. Sure, you might catch one every once in a while if you know exactly where the pigs are. See, that there is the problem, up here they are few and far between, and there ain't no catching 10 hogs a day, you got to have a dog that will get out and HUNT a track, and have a cold enough nose to trail them up if you can even find sign to put them on.
  After walking countless miles day after day, and no hogs gets old fast.
And not to mention, all these "good" cold nosed get out and hunt cur dogs I keep hearing about, well.......they are top secret and not available to the public. 

x's 2, Tom you just summed up Ohio

[hogdogger98]

I live in Arkansas. North Arkansas I think you need hounds or hound crosses. South Arkansas where there are more hogs curs work good. Now in my opinion the hogs are running like crazy in both places so the dogs better be rough no matter what you have if you want to catch hogs.

[CHRIS+PAULA]

Try you a plott/cur cross. Working good for me

[firemedic]

Try you a plott/cur cross. Working good for me

X2

[jassenswisher1974]

I am a rookie hog dog man, Started march of last year. My first 2 dogs was a Mountain Cur and a half plott/half pit catch dog. Went hunting twice a week. Didnt have a good trainer hog but was determined to finish. My cur would strike but he couldnt stop a hog and would turn back after 400 yard race. If I were going to continue to use curs here in Ohio I would need 4 good bay dogs. I have no access to curs proven on hogs. After many conversations with Paul Teegardin and TNHillbilly we all agreed we need plotts and coming from Paul who has hunted here and lives in Texas that meant alot. Curs are a staple in Texas, In Ohio they are used for treeing on squirrell and no disrespect because I own a mtn cur that trees on a squirrell and love it. So a thread labeled "Plotts?" peaked my interest. I have read a lot of threads by die hard cur men and know you guys have killed a ton of hogs with curs and I am flat jealous. I do not have deep pockets to ship curs from texas to ohio and wont because I'll never buy a finished dog. I use plotts because I catch hogs with them. Some guys on here stereotype plotts a slow loudmouth idiot dogs that just scare away all the hogs. In my rookie year of hog hunting with dogs a plott is more than a hog dog. Its a big game dog that will run a hog till its caught. This is a catch phrase from a hog hunter in greece that uses plotts on wild boar; "Trail to Run – Run to Catch – Catch to Hold". Plotts open or silent will finish a track, as a breed they have been culled as good as any bloodline in the world. The plotts I use are Pocahontas that are known for SPEED, grit and will finish a track or your money back, Weems that were started by one of the best plott breeders ever, Everette Weems. My weems female stops a boar by crushing his testicles on the run with her teeth and she never has been in a bay pen, she just does it. My interest is really peaked because I want to see some good bay dogs, I want to see the ones they talk about on here, until then I'll use my loud mouth brindle dogs. Plotts? why not?

[Reuben]

I am a rookie hog dog man, Started march of last year. My first 2 dogs was a Mountain Cur and a half plott/half pit catch dog. Went hunting twice a week. Didnt have a good trainer hog but was determined to finish. My cur would strike but he couldnt stop a hog and would turn back after 400 yard race. If I were going to continue to use curs here in Ohio I would need 4 good bay dogs. I have no access to curs proven on hogs. After many conversations with Paul Teegardin and TNHillbilly we all agreed we need plotts and coming from Paul who has hunted here and lives in Texas that meant alot. Curs are a staple in Texas, In Ohio they are used for treeing on squirrell and no disrespect because I own a mtn cur that trees on a squirrell and love it. So a thread labeled "Plotts?" peaked my interest. I have read a lot of threads by die hard cur men and know you guys have killed a ton of hogs with curs and I am flat jealous. I do not have deep pockets to ship curs from texas to ohio and wont because I'll never buy a finished dog. I use plotts because I catch hogs with them. Some guys on here stereotype plotts a slow loudmouth idiot dogs that just scare away all the hogs. In my rookie year of hog hunting with dogs a plott is more than a hog dog. Its a big game dog that will run a hog till its caught. This is a catch phrase from a hog hunter in greece that uses plotts on wild boar; "Trail to Run – Run to Catch – Catch to Hold". Plotts open or silent will finish a track, as a breed they have been culled as good as any bloodline in the world. The plotts I use are Pocahontas that are known for SPEED, grit and will finish a track or your money back, Weems that were started by one of the best plott breeders ever, Everette Weems. My weems female stops a boar by crushing his testicles on the run with her teeth and she never has been in a bay pen, she just does it. My interest is really peaked because I want to see some good bay dogs, I want to see the ones they talk about on here, until then I'll use my loud mouth brindle dogs. Plotts? why not?

your right about the mtn cur...more and more are used for squirrel. can't test for stick/bottom when hunting squirrel...but a good mtn cur is what I like...

[jassenswisher1974]

Reuben,
I'll say this my mountain cur pulled a coon out of a hollow log and killed it one morning, I liked that. Here in Ohio we cant use ATVs where we hunt we have to free cast a lot, I just dont think curs are real suited for that. But my cur dog got me in the woods and right now he's in florida living the dream.

[jassenswisher1974]

Waylon,
I think you really did sum it up in your last post... you just want to trash plotts. That blows my mind that you really havent spent the time with a plott. What you need to do is this... get out of texas and go hunt the mountains, go hunt where you cant use a atv. Go hunt where you dont have hogs like in Texas. My last hunt was this, We walked in .68 miles till the plotts struck, we walked another 200 yards, we let 6 plotts off the lead and at 700 yards they opened up, at 780 they stopped the hog. It took 35 minutes to climb 2 huge hills and the dogs held the hog till we got there. We had to drag the hog 680 yards to the truck. You really need to hunt outside of Texas... really

[BigCutters4]

Waylon,
I think you really did sum it up in your last post... you just want to trash plotts. That blows my mind that you really havent spent the time with a plott. What you need to do is this... get out of texas and go hunt the mountains, go hunt where you cant use a atv. Go hunt where you dont have hogs like in Texas. My last hunt was this, We walked in .68 miles till the plotts struck, we walked another 200 yards, we let 6 plotts off the lead and at 700 yards they opened up, at 780 they stopped the hog. It took 35 minutes to climb 2 huge hills and the dogs held the hog till we got there. We had to drag the hog 680 yards to the truck. You really need to hunt outside of Texas... really

. Lol I deer hunt in Ohio its ruff I could only imagine chasing dogs around

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[jassenswisher1974]

Bigcutter,
Thats what hog hunting is here...a lot of walking, but we do it and its all we know and we love it. Where do you der hunt at? We are in southern ohio
swish