Plotts?

[Wmwendler]

Oh yeah, and if those cur dog's are such the total package, why are so MANY people adding hound to them? To add range, bottom, nose.
  Don't get me wrong, im not knocking cur dogs, ive seen a few that I wouldnt mind feeding, but to say they would work as good as a hound up here I have to disagree.
   

That has been thrown around on this thread a few times so here goes.  A person could just as easily turn that around and say they were breeding Curs into the hounds.  And if you are implying or asuming they are doing it because the hound has superior traits to offer then why make the cross in the first place why not go straight hound?   But I get what your saying and really the person who makes that kind of cross is the only one that knows why he is doing it.....Well hopefully he knows why he is doing it. lol

In my honest opinion it happens for a couple reasons.  Here they they are in the order I think is the most common reason from least to most common.  #1-they might actually prefer a few hound traits in thier dogs for one reason or another.  #2-they don't know any better.   Or #3 They have some cur dogs that they wish had more hunt or bottom, which is not all that uncommon with the way dogs are bred and peddled now days, and they mistakenly think putting hound in them is the best way to do it.  Either they have not been hog dogging very long and have never seen a Cur dog with lots of bottom that will hunt deep.  Or they just flat don't have acess to that kind of cur dog and have not or will not put in the time it takes to earn a chance at owning that kind of Cur dog.  Most people with those kind of Curs hold them tight and its like a good fishing hole you just don't give that away to very many people and then only those who have earned your trust and show they do right with it.  Now I could also explain why I don't think you can just breed a hound to a cur and get a 50/50 mix of traits, but I have a feeling you understand and it goes back to the fact that hounds and curs have two totally different hunting styles like you mentioned previously.  Just my opinion.

Waylon

[chainrated]

My last hunt was this, We walked in .68 miles till the plotts struck, we walked another 200 yards, we let 6 plotts off the lead and at 700 yards they opened up, at 780 they stopped the hog. It took 35 minutes to climb 2 huge hills and the dogs held the hog till we got there.

Sounds like a pretty easy hog hunt ....  It's definitley not uncommon to walk a lot farther and longer than that and for dogs to run a lot farther than that, no matter where you are hunting..

[chainrated]

Question- where are all these good cur dogs that will range 500-800 yds and run a track 3-6 hrs old, cold trail a hog 3/4 mi jump and run another mi or two and stay bayed however many hrs it takes you to walk to them? If you can consistently produce these kind of cur dog's  I will buy a couple and consider converting, oh wait those kind are not for sale, and how many come like that out of a litter of strait cur dogs?

TN, ranging 500-800 yards and running a track 3 hours old really isn't something I would consider unusual in the right line of cur dogs. Actually, it's what I would expect.
I know that there are way more that won't do that than will as far as dogs go in general but I don't think that it's breed specific , I think that goes for all dogs. I don't think those kind of dogs are reproduced on a real consistant basis with any breed , hound or cur.  As far as percentages go with reproducing that kind of dog I would be very happy with 50%..  I Have hunted with a lot of plotts and a lot of cur dogs and In my experience your chances of getting a top hogdog isn't any better with hounds. I don't mean a dog that will run with a pack or be at a bay, I mean a dog that will do it by himself. I've watched a LOT of plotts run with a pack but then turn him loose by himself and he wont go 300 yards. But I've also watched a LOT of cur dogs do the same thing. I'm not downing hounds at all but judging from the ones I've hunted with, your chances of getting a hogdog that will range 600-800 yards and take 3-6 hour old tracks  by themself are in no way better.

[arrowbar]

I have glanced through this thread and basically in all breeds you can have the same variations of speed, range, grit, desire and so on, but what it comes down to is consistency amongst the breeds and even more so the strains in the breeds and the preference of the owners. I have had some dogs that I culled that may have worked ok to extremelly well for others and have had some that may have been culls for others. My experience with plotts is the range is not limited meaning that these dogs will hunt as close to as far as needed, they dont back down, have been able to smell cat tracks that other dogs were oblivious to, and problem solving smart meaning that they learn quick and its hard to fool them more than once.

[Bigdog]

10 t0 15 miles walking on a hunt?thats alot not saying u dont do it but thats along ways.walking 10 miles down a road is alongways,thats not hunting,listeing for dogs,leading dogs,catching hogs,dragging hogs,checking the garmin to see how far u walked.lol

[arrowbar]

the distances you hit hunting lions and even bear can far exceed that of most hog hunts. If you are looking for a plott with nose, smarts and endurance and desire try the cat producing strains

[blakebh]

10 t0 15 miles walking on a hunt?thats alot not saying u dont do it but thats along ways.walking 10 miles down a road is alongways,thats not hunting,listeing for dogs,leading dogs,catching hogs,dragging hogs,checking the garmin to see how far u walked.lol

I wish I had places to hunt where I could walk 10 or 15 miles in one direction! I was just talking about a good all day hunt where the dogs are working hard and we are catching hogs. I usually just look at how many miles the bulldog did and that is usually pretty close to what we walked/ran for the day. And I can sure tell you it feels like I walked that much after we are done. LOL

[Matt D]

Question- where are all these good cur dogs that will range 500-800 yds and run a track 3-6 hrs old, cold trail a hog 3/4 mi jump and run another mi or two and stay bayed however many hrs it takes you to walk to them? If you can consistently produce these kind of cur dog's  I will buy a couple and consider converting, oh wait those kind are not for sale, and how many come like that out of a litter of strait cur dogs?


   Ive hunted all over, and every place ive hunted is rough in its own way. They've all got briars and thick stuff, thats where the hogs go no matter where your at.

Well said...

In my opinion now a days everyone where I hunt wants a cold nose cur that will hunt like a hound but keep it's mouth shut like a cur. Not saying all curs are silent but here is another question how many people have DEAD silent, full blood curs that hunt over 600yards in no sign and will run 3 or 4hrs??? No yipping when they jump or when it breaks DEAD silent until bayed?? Just out of curiosity. It seems Rangey dead silent curs are almost impossible to find. I'm not much of a houndsman myself I hate trail barking but I doubt you would catch many hogs in the mountains of Tn, Ohio or N Carolina with a pack of curs.

[Reuben]

Question- where are all these good cur dogs that will range 500-800 yds and run a track 3-6 hrs old, cold trail a hog 3/4 mi jump and run another mi or two and stay bayed however many hrs it takes you to walk to them? If you can consistently produce these kind of cur dog's  I will buy a couple and consider converting, oh wait those kind are not for sale, and how many come like that out of a litter of strait cur dogs?


   Ive hunted all over, and every place ive hunted is rough in its own way. They've all got briars and thick stuff, thats where the hogs go no matter where your at.

Well said...

In my opinion now a days everyone where I hunt wants a cold nose cur that will hunt like a hound but keep it's mouth shut like a cur. Not saying all curs are silent but here is another question how many people have DEAD silent, full blood curs that hunt over 600yards in no sign and will run 3 or 4hrs??? No yipping when they jump or when it breaks DEAD silent until bayed?? Just out of curiosity. It seems Rangey dead silent curs are almost impossible to find. I'm not much of a houndsman myself I hate trail barking but I doubt you would catch many hogs in the mountains of Tn, Ohio or N Carolina with a pack of curs.

I use to raise mtn curs of the type T.Hillbilly is talking about. but once the hog was jumped they opened some. If the track was fresh enough they barked 2 or 3 times and rolled out on the track. and toward the end the majority of the litter of pups were good hog dogs. so I know it can be done...line breeding with a little inbreeding and only the best can be bred. no compromising unless no other option because it is better to breed a somewhat good dog of the same line than a very good dog from an unknown line...it becomes more important once the line has been established...

[halfbreed]

                                                             plotts is cur dogs till of recent years                                                                           
                               

[BIG BEN]

 There is a man in oklahoma that has a yard full of the best bred cur dogs I know of, some will know exactly who Im talking about and some wont. He uses his curs strictly for cows and hog hunts with some of the best looking plotts Ive ever laid eyes on and have heard from Bigo and Skoal that they are the best plotts they have ever seen in the woods. T Ive always wondered why he hunts hogs with plotts when he has a yard full of good cur dogs. The terrain you hunt will decide on the breed of dog you hunt with. Saying one breed is better than the other for any purpose is all just one mans opinion, what works here in texas might not work in tennessee and vise versa.

[Reuben]

BigBen,

I am just speculating here...but if the cur dogs are good cow dogs...they might make some good bay dogs but not necessarily good hunting dogs...

A lot of the cow dogs are bred to stay close to the cowboy working the cattle and this does not require a dog that ranges out nor a dog that has a cold nose. But even if the dog has a cold nose he does not range out so a cold nose won't do any good...

there are good hunting curs out there for sure but one must get one from a good line of hunting dogs if we want to have the best chance of having a hunting dog at 18 months of age...

A plott is bred to hunt and the right breeder will only breed for the right hunting traits in his hunting dogs..

[BIG BEN]

 I and a few other ethd members have cur dogs off this mans yard and they are proving to be good if not great hog dogs. They are showing to have the nose, bottom, drive, range, intensity, and most importantly the "want to" to become great dogs. Ill message him and ask him myself why he hunts the plotts for hogs. What my point is what works for some will not work for others. Its all personal preference when it comes to hunting dogs and one shouldnt try to push their opinion down someones throat.

[tnhillbilly]

X 2 ^^^^^^^^

[BIG CHRIS]

halfbreed you shed some light on my PLOTT CUR jersey for me.  my little plott CUR is as silent as any cur dog around, and her off spring are 9 months old and show to be just as silent. they are half BMC/PLOTT CUR. maybe thats why i like em so much.

BLAKE there must be something to these cur plott/cur cross dogs, because the ones around these parts produce pork!!!

[Wmwendler]

Well if it comes across as if I am trying to push my opinion down someones thoat then I apologize.  Its not my intentions.  I don't expect or care to change anyones opinion. I'm just interested in the discussion and debate.   I don't mean any hard feelings and when its all said and done its just differences of opinion.  We are all hogdoggers and need to stay united when it comes to what matters.

Big Ben....Thats very interesting what you mentioned about the man who works cattle with Curs and hunts hogs with Plotts.  I to would be interested in knowing why.

Reuben.....beleive it or not good cowdogs need to have hunt to some degree or another.  It depends on the terrain how much is needed.  You can get by without it, but you wont have very good sucess at getting ALL the cattle out of the pasture if it has very much brush in it.  The guys I know that make a living doing it would not consider one a good well rounded cow dog if it didn't have hunt.  They do focus on breeding for handle and its handle that makes the dog stay in close..... not lack of hunt. But they have to have hunt or you wont be able to send them hunting for cattle that are hiding in the brush.  Lots of people including my self have taken Cur dogs from good cowdog stock and make solid hogs dogs, hunt and all.  

Waylon

[crj4926]

wendler well said we have cur dogs that we use for hog hunting and cow working and if our cur dogs wouldnt range out and find cows then we would leave alot behind so i very much agree with your post.I have hunted with an old timer from here that was a govt trapper and he had both hounds and curs and i will say like i said in my earlier post that his hounds also were silent and they would take a much colder track than the cur dogs did and they were running walkers and plotts both and they would put a hog at the end of it

[BIG BEN]

Well if it comes across as if I am trying to push my opinion down someones thoat then I apologize.  Its not my intentions.  I don't expect or care to change anyones opinion. I'm just interested in the discussion and debate.   I don't mean any hard feelings and when its all said and done its just differences of opinion.  We are all hogdoggers and need to stay united when it comes to what matters.

Big Ben....Thats very interesting what you mentioned about the man who works cattle with Curs and hunts hogs with Plotts.  I to would be interested in knowing why.

Reuben.....beleive it or not good cowdogs need to have hunt to some degree or another.  It depends on the terrain how much is needed.  You can get by without it, but you wont have very good sucess at getting ALL the cattle out of the pasture if it has very much brush in it.  The guys I know that make a living doing it would not consider one a good well rounded cow dog if it didn't have hunt.  They do focus on breeding for handle and its handle that makes the dog stay in close..... not lack of hunt. But they have to have hunt or you wont be able to send them hunting for cattle that are hiding in the brush.  Lots of people including my self have taken Cur dogs from good cowdog stock and make solid hogs dogs, hunt and all.  

Waylon

Waylon, I will let ya know his exact answer when he messages me back and I think you might know who Im talking about. Hope my comment about pushing opinions down others throats didnt affend you as it was not directed towards you at all, its just I see folks on here all the time that will argue til they are blue in the face when in reality all it is is an opinion and they think their opinion is the only one that is correct, the ole sayin opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one and most of them stink serves very true on the ole www.

[Quillin1]

[sTN, ranging 500-800 yards and running a track 3 hours old really isn't something I would consider unusual in the right line of cur dogs. Actually, it's what I would expect.
I know that there are way more that won't do that than will as far as dogs go in general but I don't think that it's breed specific , I think that goes for all dogs. I don't think those kind of dogs are reproduced on a real consistant basis with any breed , hound or cur.  As far as percentages go with reproducing that kind of dog I would be very happy with 50%..  I Have hunted with a lot of plotts and a lot of cur dogs and In my experience your chances of getting a top hogdog isn't any better with hounds. I don't mean a dog that will run with a pack or be at a bay, I mean a dog that will do it by himself. I've watched a LOT of plotts run with a pack but then turn him loose by himself and he wont go 300 yards. But I've also watched a LOT of cur dogs do the same thing. I'm not downing hounds at all but judging from the ones I've hunted with, your chances of getting a hogdog that will range 600-800 yards and take 3-6 hour old tracks  by themself are in no way better. ub][/sub]
 X2 chainrated we also have a few 800yd curs in northeast Texas  same with plott and hound crosses more that wont than will. Three hour track is nothing for these cats!

[BIG BEN]

 Waylon, here is the answer I got from the well respected yellow dog man I was talking about, if you dont know who Im talking about just pm me and Ill let ya know.

Well number one, I just never could bring myself to break a set of Curs off cattle since that is their primary job here, next most places here I absolutely cannot hog hunt a dog that will bay cattle, and finally I do really like to know who struck the track, who ran the front end, who made the pick if there is a break in the race, and how did they get from point a to point b. It has absolutely nothing to do with the terrain or that I think a good Plott works better than a good Cur.
I do think (that on the average) it is easier to get a better nose and more bottom with a Plott than a Cur and it is easier to get a better bay dog with a Cur, by that I mean a Cur dog is more apt to have a better inherent instinct to know what it takes to keep a hog bayed that really doesn't want to. Handling hogs or cattle "is" and always will be all about pressure and position when, how much, sometimes more and then less pressure 10 seconds apart etc.
Lets use the little gyp that Derek bought for an example, she is a nice young dog but no superdog at this point in time, her first trip to the woods after having seen a hog in a pen twice she made the whole trip and ran up with my other 2 dogs on a boar hog 7 hours, her daddy and her aunt made a 5 hour race with 2 different bays in the deal their first trip to the woods at 8 months old, but I had turned them 2 hogs loose prior to that, their grandpa made an 8 hour race on the baddest boar I have ever found in the woods at 8 months his 3rd time to the woods and was cut up the first time they bayed him at about 45 minutes, after having said all that I firmly beileve you will catch more numbers of hogs with good Cur dogs especially where there are more hogs, and I know full well there are Cur dogs with the same sort of nose and stick as I just mentioned with the Plotts but it is harder to come by.
I have dedicated 2 males that are full brothers but younger, to your Owen dog to hogs, I am going to solid break them off cattle and just hog hunt them, the reason I chose them to do this to is that I am still breeding primarily for cow dogs but I have 7 of them here that are full brother and sisters so I can see all the cow work I need to from the other 5.
Well that is my opinion and reasoning, I don't mind you asking at all nor do I think it was a dumb question. Tell ever body Hi.