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rdjustham
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« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 07:25:35 am » |
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Take my dogs,my truck boat or whatever. I am not going to kill some one for taking some thing. You come past my door into the house, that is a different story. No property I own is worth taking anothers life over.
Amen And nothing i iwn is worth spending my son's life in prison. |
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AnthonyB
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« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2012, 02:01:53 am » |
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I have to agree with bailey508, as a criminal justice major and pre-law student, I have interned at the DA's office. This was a question that I myself had, so I looked through several case studies, and there are many on each side. If someone is walking off your property with something of yours and you shoot them with no threat to you or your family be ready to spend the next 25 years in jail. (minimum) Then be prepared for the family of the person you shot to file and win a civil suit against you or your family. There are many laws that have to do with private property, theft, theft that harms livelyhood, etc. Some of the laws can protect you, and others can hang you as the shooter. Each DA is different, as is the GJ, and jury. Nobody feels sorry for a thief, but 12 of your peers can decide wether you should sit in jail for killing them. The question that the DA and the Grand Jury are going to ask are "is this justified". And in most cases nobody is going to believe that a dog is worth the life of a human. Everyone can talk big about what they will do, but you also have to be smart enough to know that there are dozens of non-lethal ways to deal with that situation. Take a life to protect you or your family absolutely, take one over a dog that you could have kept without going that far, doubtful.
Anthony
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I hunt and breed FBMCBO,inc. dogs. (Weatherford's Ben)
TDHA BOD
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RL
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« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2012, 09:44:10 am » |
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Take my dogs,my truck boat or whatever. I am not going to kill some one for taking some thing. You come past my door into the house, that is a different story. No property I own is worth taking anothers life over.
Amen And nothing i iwn is worth spending my son's life in prison. This is the ultimate question. Is that property worth the cost to you and your loved ones? Nah, it isn't. |
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RL
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« Reply #23 on: February 29, 2012, 09:45:57 am » |
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I have to agree with bailey508, as a criminal justice major and pre-law student, I have interned at the DA's office. This was a question that I myself had, so I looked through several case studies, and there are many on each side. If someone is walking off your property with something of yours and you shoot them with no threat to you or your family be ready to spend the next 25 years in jail. (minimum) Then be prepared for the family of the person you shot to file and win a civil suit against you or your family. There are many laws that have to do with private property, theft, theft that harms livelyhood, etc. Some of the laws can protect you, and others can hang you as the shooter. Each DA is different, as is the GJ, and jury. Nobody feels sorry for a thief, but 12 of your peers can decide wether you should sit in jail for killing them. The question that the DA and the Grand Jury are going to ask are "is this justified". And in most cases nobody is going to believe that a dog is worth the life of a human. Everyone can talk big about what they will do, but you also have to be smart enough to know that there are dozens of non-lethal ways to deal with that situation. Take a life to protect you or your family absolutely, take one over a dog that you could have kept without going that far, doubtful.
Anthony
Well stated. The rhertoric may sound good ... but the reality will likely become a nightmare. |
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AnthonyB
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« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2012, 12:42:03 pm » |
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Another example for those that talk about shooting based on tresspasing. One case, Guy was on his ranch and saw someone walking around and thought he was poaching. The land owner fired at him, not intending to kill him, but hit close to him on the ground. For whatever reason the "poacher" just stood still, game warden and law were called. The land owner gave his story, yep he's a poacher and I shot at him to scare him so he wouldn't come back. Turns out the "poacher" was hunting next door to the guys ranch became turned around and was trying to find his way out. Was that what he was really doing, who knows. But, the land owner provided all the evidence needed for the guy to file a civil suit, win, and was also given a timed judgement. (have a certain amount of time to pay before you are held in contempt) After everything was said and done, the land owner ended up having to sign over the ranch to the person he "shot at" because he could not come up with the money owed. Court granted the ranch as payment. Moral of the story, know what your doing and what the posible consequences may be before you do it.
Anthony
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I hunt and breed FBMCBO,inc. dogs. (Weatherford's Ben)
TDHA BOD
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wolfpen
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« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2012, 02:51:32 pm » |
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Is there a statute of limitations for being shot at and having a gun pointed at you? Because me and a buddy were shot at, when we were kids, and on a seperate occasion the guy pointed his deer rifle at my head, and escorted me off the property. He is very wealthy mega hole in the butt. He even confiscates little kids fishing tackle before he kicks them off. Everybody thinks this guy is a major ass, but he is super rich. he even told my neighbor once to sue him that he has more money than the county. somebody told me that he died, and is his brother or family owns it now, but i'm not sure.
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2 Kings 2:23-25
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redneckrob
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« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2012, 03:02:45 pm » |
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i believe in texas they call it hte castle doctrine and the texas motor vehicle protection act you can even carry a concealed weapon in your boat.
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hdbulldogger28
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« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2012, 03:45:20 pm » |
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if he is not facing you (which would be hard for someone to prove unless they saw it) you arnt "legally" able to shoot them cause of the fleaing felon act, but if there aint noone that will see it by all means protect your property that you worked hard for with any force you have to, dont let some piece of crap low life scum get it in a matter of minutes. JMO
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Reuben
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« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2012, 07:00:11 pm » |
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around 1993 or so some of my co-workers were talking about a man that was having trouble with poachers/trespassing and I believe they said he caught 3 on his property. He held them at gun point and got their drivers liscenses for I.D. and proof...Long story short the land owner was charged with armed robbery...I believe it happened around Alvin somewhere.
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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rdjustham
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« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2012, 08:40:46 pm » |
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In most states a person us allowed ti hold a trespasser or thief for a reasonable amount if time j til law enforcement arrives.
That brin said there aint nothin i own thats worth a human life. There are 5 people alive today because Ive defended then with deadly force and the ordeal you have to go through afterwards is sickening. Yall say what you want, but until youve been there (which is somethin i wouldnt wish on anyone) you have no idea how stupid it would be. The realization comes in with, you have the right to remain silent........
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wolfpen
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« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2012, 09:30:56 pm » |
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Well, I'm glad I started this thread, because I figure I'd only use deadly force if I felt my life was in danger, now. I'm fully aware of how things turn out different than you would figure they would, because there are so many changing factors and variables even day to day.
I'm a little more confused though now too. I've read the laws lots of times, and the way I interpret them is.... I guess it has to do with interpretation including the interpretation of the police officer on the scene. I trust a police officer more than I would trust a jury of twelve people who were picked by lawyers(in my book lawyers are at the bottom of the barrel, below doctors and real estate agents) just kiddin' I've met one decent lawyer and there are some good doctors.
The law is always changing. Mr. Horn said that it made his life Hell, and if he had to do it over he wouldn't, but he shot the people that were robbing his neighbors' and they were leaving.
Who knows. it would totally be a situation that I pray to the Creator that I never have to make that decision.
On the other hand my dogs are my family and they are my best friends. It may be sad to some, but they are a very big part of my life and one of if not the most important thing to me.
rdjustham, did this occur in Texas?
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2 Kings 2:23-25
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Reuben
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« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2012, 09:40:16 pm » |
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In most states a person us allowed ti hold a trespasser or thief for a reasonable amount if time j til law enforcement arrives.
That brin said there aint nothin i own thats worth a human life. There are 5 people alive today because Ive defended then with deadly force and the ordeal you have to go through afterwards is sickening. Yall say what you want, but until youve been there (which is somethin i wouldnt wish on anyone) you have no idea how stupid it would be. The realization comes in with, you have the right to remain silent........
there is a 50/50 chance that you will be guilty until proven innocent...this will involve having to hire a lawyer...maybe probation, community service not to mention bailing out of jail...having to take off from work to go to court...the court system is a big money making operation...and you might get to go to prison...too many unknowns for me...I'll do all I can to stay clear... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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dub
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« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2012, 11:13:11 pm » |
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Well I would only ask one question. Could you go up to thief's family and explain why you killed him over property?
Coming in my house is a no brainer. You can only be coming in to hurt someone and I will defend my family.
A dog? Well maybe but if I have a deer rifle I will put the round through his radiator. If he tries to drive off he ain't going far. I just can't see killing a man over a dog. But my kennels are next to my house so I could think they are coming in. But I have real good cameras that are hidden real good. So they will get caught.
Property? I am not killing someone over property. If God wants me to have it then God will replace it. If God does not want the thief to have then God will take it with interest.
Every one of us has done something stupid. That thief may have someone that loves them. That person may not be able to feed their family. They could be just a horrible person that will always do bad things. But you do not know before you shoot and you can't take that bullet back. So let the judicial system handle it good or bad if you can.
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"...A man who has nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance at being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself..." John Stuart Mill
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rdjustham
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« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2012, 09:36:09 pm » |
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there is a 50/50 chance that you will be guilty until proven innocent...this will involve having to hire a lawyer...maybe probation, community service not to mention bailing out of jail...having to take off from work to go to court...the court system is a big money making operation...and you might get to go to prison...too many unknowns for me...I'll do all I can to stay clear...
no idea about texas but in Fl you can use "force reasonable" which leaves alot open to interpretation.. A dog? Well maybe but if I have a deer rifle I will put the round through his radiator. If he tries to drive off he ain't going far.
Just a suggestion, but i wouldnt do that. If the "thief" tells the cop he was in fear when you shot his radiator you just commited aggravated assault, a far more serious felony than theft. In my experience the violent crimes detective would show up and not the property crimes detective. Just my .02 |
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brad s
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« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2012, 09:51:07 pm » |
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All I can say is if someone is trying to steal my dogs or harm them it ain't gona b pretty! My dogs are part of my family and I will protect them like I would my family. Its pretty sad these days a thief can get away with such things and make it look like they are the victim
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I go where the dogs go!
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rdjustham
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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2012, 09:56:16 pm » |
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After my previous post i went back and looked through some old reports of mine. I had a case where two "thiefs" ( i use the "" because in this case they were "victims"), broke into a guys house the neighbor called us, as he pulled up the neighbor yelled to him and pointed them out, when i got there he was hitting one with a baseball bat in his front yard. That was two years ago, he now has free room and board in a not so cozy hotel. Not sayin i agree with it, its just the way things work. People take precident over property.
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dub
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« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2012, 11:22:07 pm » |
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Yup a person is far more important than property. When my dogs start making noise I do jump up and go check but I don't grab a gun. A gun can make a bad situation get worse real fast. I would not grab a bat either. If they are trying to take a dog they will have to deal with me. A deer rifle would be my last choice. I have had my share of problems and can say that any weapon makes things much more tense. Now if I see a weapon then I might have one real fast. But I have Deputies stop right by my house to do reports or whatever they do in their car all the time. If you stop by they will get your plate. If they don't know you they will chat with you. I know the deputies and they know me. Unless I do something real stupid I will not be in trouble. Plus I know the DPS around here too. That is the best protection to have. My dogs are part of my family and people around me know it. But deadly force to protect property? Nope. But that does not mean I will not use force necessary to detain you until law enforcement gets here. I do have things in place to stop thieves  |
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"...A man who has nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance at being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself..." John Stuart Mill
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rdjustham
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« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2012, 12:15:22 am » |
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rdjustham, did this occur in Texas?
no it didnt. Heres the link to the article which was the report by a State Attorney's office in Florida outside of the jurisdiction where the incident occured. Everyone involved, FFs, LEOs and even the man's mother who was in the house at the time had the same account of the incident and it still took 6 months of wondering where I was going to end up. Which is why i say think clearly before you pull a trigger! http://m.naplesnews.com/news/2010/aug/02/lee-deputies-cleared-shooting-death-lehigh-acres-m/ |
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dan
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« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2012, 12:44:56 pm » |
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No such thing as justified use of deadly force to protect property . If you can't prove fear of your life or someone else you are going to prison. In many cases if it is possible to leave then fear alone is not enough. True there is a lot of other variables to consider.
Don't be afraid to try a good old fashioned ass whooping to correct the little things in life.
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Dan
"We are all on our way out...ACT ACCORDINGLY"
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