|
blakebh
|
 |
« on: February 27, 2012, 05:15:19 pm » |
|
Thinking about this breeding for the future and would like to get some opinions from those that have experience with these types of crosses. Pistol is still young at almost a year and has a lot to show me before she is considered breed worthy but from what I am seeing she is gonna be an exceptional dog IMO. Zig is a very good strike dog with tons of bottom that pretty much has taught me how to hunt over the last couple years. He has also produced pretty good in two different litters that are both right at a year. Zig and Pistol(Father/Daughter)  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Amokabs
|
|
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 06:07:06 pm » |
|
If u wanna double up on dad's traits, thats the way to do it. If he has any genetic issues, u may see them come out in a pup or two, but i bet you'll be pleased with the outcome.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
TShelly
|
|
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 06:51:10 pm » |
|
Thats a sure enough way to start your own line of red dogs Blake.. I would do it if she keeps turning on like you expect
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Get ahead dog!
|
|
|
|
Reuben
|
|
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 07:31:07 pm » |
|
Some of the very best dogs I had were from a father/daughter cross. All the pups we kept up with were above average strike dogs. The father was named Buck and he also was the great grandfather on the bottom side...The great grandmother on the bottom side was a 3/4 Texas Smoke bred female. This made her a father/daughter bred female. She was bred to Buck.
All the dogs mentioned were bred in my back yard except for the 3/4 Texas Smoke bred female. She produced some of the best hog dogs I raised...
That red male seems to be a real nice looking dog and has the stripes to prove he can get rough on a bad one. The red female seems to be leggy and I can't really see how she looks but I bet she is built right. Make sure you identify the bad and good traits including the ones that are not visible, for instance...do the dogs have a good bite??? otherwise you might get all with a bad bite like over shot or under shot...if you do not see any visible negative traits then I say go for it...If one has a negative trait...do the research on that trait to see if it is a dominant or recessive. Recessive traits are easier to breed out.
I would do it and cull hard...test the pups...the breeding program is only as good as the dogs bred and probably the most important part of breeding is in the selection and keeping the best pups for breeding and hunting...
If you do it right the cream will rise to the top...
lots of folks say don't do it but it is the fasted way to get a line breeding program going...but can also be the fastest way to breeding bad faults if you don't look at all the pros and cons and select accordingly...
I am not an expert but I have done it and it worked for me...But every dog I bred was what I thought to be a very good hunting dog...
The best defense is a good offense when breeding dogs...What this means to me is that since I don't know much about breeding I will only breed the very best I have available to me at all times...but then I think that all good breeders do it that way...no compromising unless absolutely necessary and that should almost never happen...
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
|
|
|
|
Matt D
|
|
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 08:53:30 pm » |
|
Real good looking dogs Blake! How are they bred? Hound/Cur? Good luck with the breeding.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Bar R Ranch
|
|
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 09:07:59 pm » |
|
That red male seems to be a real nice looking dog and has the stripes to prove he can get rough on a bad one. The red female seems to be leggy and I can't really see how she looks but I bet she is built right. Make sure you identify the bad and good traits including the ones that are not visible, for instance...do the dogs have a good bite??? otherwise you might get all with a bad bite like over shot or under shot...if you do not see any visible negative traits then I say go for it...If one has a negative trait...do the research on that trait to see if it is a dominant or recessive. Recessive traits are easier to breed out.
Recessive traits are not easier to breed out. A recessive trait can be carried for generations before it comes out.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
JeffreyTBH
|
|
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 09:32:25 pm » |
|
Can't wait to get those pups on the ground!  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
DWEST
|
|
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012, 09:42:27 pm » |
|
they look the part anyway. if you like 'em, breed 'em. They're your dogs. I've always had more favor of the red over yellow anyway as long as they've got the mask LOL good lookin dogs |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Reuben
|
|
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2012, 09:44:49 pm » |
|
The way I understand recessive traits is that they become visible if both parents carriers then some of the offspring can display the trait and others will be carriers...So if the traits is not visible you may produce a few down the road or in the litter but it can be managed. It seems that when an outcross is made then a lot of the buried recessive genes will come out.
I could be wrong but that is my interpretation of it....best thing is keep them related and only breed the ones that are meeting your standards...and no excuses, no compromising and take off the rose colored glasses.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
|
|
|
|
Reuben
|
|
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2012, 09:49:49 pm » |
|
they look the part anyway. if you like 'em, breed 'em. They're your dogs. I've always had more favor of the red over yellow anyway as long as they've got the mask LOL good lookin dogs x2...I like them red....red gold or dark yellow gold...but color is further down the list when selecting pups. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
|
|
|
|
DWEST
|
|
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2012, 09:51:02 pm » |
|
they look the part anyway. if you like 'em, breed 'em. They're your dogs. I've always had more favor of the red over yellow anyway as long as they've got the mask LOL good lookin dogs x2...I like them red....red gold or dark yellow gold...but color is further down the list when selecting pups. i agree, but growin up...them red cur dogs got it done! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
blakebh
|
|
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 08:27:52 am » |
|
Some of the very best dogs I had were from a father/daughter cross. All the pups we kept up with were above average strike dogs. The father was named Buck and he also was the great grandfather on the bottom side...The great grandmother on the bottom side was a 3/4 Texas Smoke bred female. This made her a father/daughter bred female. She was bred to Buck.
All the dogs mentioned were bred in my back yard except for the 3/4 Texas Smoke bred female. She produced some of the best hog dogs I raised...
That red male seems to be a real nice looking dog and has the stripes to prove he can get rough on a bad one. The red female seems to be leggy and I can't really see how she looks but I bet she is built right. Make sure you identify the bad and good traits including the ones that are not visible, for instance...do the dogs have a good bite??? otherwise you might get all with a bad bite like over shot or under shot...if you do not see any visible negative traits then I say go for it...If one has a negative trait...do the research on that trait to see if it is a dominant or recessive. Recessive traits are easier to breed out.
I would do it and cull hard...test the pups...the breeding program is only as good as the dogs bred and probably the most important part of breeding is in the selection and keeping the best pups for breeding and hunting...
If you do it right the cream will rise to the top...
lots of folks say don't do it but it is the fasted way to get a line breeding program going...but can also be the fastest way to breeding bad faults if you don't look at all the pros and cons and select accordingly...
I am not an expert but I have done it and it worked for me...But every dog I bred was what I thought to be a very good hunting dog...
The best defense is a good offense when breeding dogs...What this means to me is that since I don't know much about breeding I will only breed the very best I have available to me at all times...but then I think that all good breeders do it that way...no compromising unless absolutely necessary and that should almost never happen...
Thanks for the reply Reuben! There are no visible genetic defects in either dog or Pistols dam which was a very good dog aswell. I think if she turns out like I think she will I will give it a try and keep all the pups and go from there. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
blakebh
|
|
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 08:29:48 am » |
|
Real good looking dogs Blake! How are they bred? Hound/Cur? Good luck with the breeding.
Thanks Matt! Zig is 1/2 Plott 1/2 Cur and Pistol is 3/4 Cur 1/4 Plott. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
RyanTBH
|
|
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012, 09:23:14 am » |
|
I think you should. If they show more negitive traits than positive after the breeding then don't do it again. Would this be called double breed on the dad's side? And what would be the break down of the pups if this happened... 1/4 this 1/2 that... ? And while you wait for Pistol we'll breed Soka and Fred to warm up... LOL! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Do work, make chit happen, and never stop moving forward.
|
|
|
|
blakebh
|
|
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2012, 09:53:39 am » |
|
I think you should. If they show more negitive traits than positive after the breeding then don't do it again. Would this be called double breed on the dad's side? And what would be the break down of the pups if this happened... 1/4 this 1/2 that... ? And while you wait for Pistol we'll breed Soka and Fred to warm up... LOL! The pups would be 5/8 Cur 3/8 Plott and double bred on Zig! Fred and Soka cross will hopefully happen when she comes in again. Looking forward to that one aswell. Need to get some pups out of Fred! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
RyanTBH
|
|
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2012, 09:57:10 am » |
|
I think you should. If they show more negitive traits than positive after the breeding then don't do it again. Would this be called double breed on the dad's side? And what would be the break down of the pups if this happened... 1/4 this 1/2 that... ? And while you wait for Pistol we'll breed Soka and Fred to warm up... LOL! The pups would be 5/8 Cur 3/8 Plott and double bred on Zig! Fred and Soka cross will hopefully happen when she comes in again. Looking forward to that one aswell. Need to get some pups out of Fred! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Do work, make chit happen, and never stop moving forward.
|
|
|
|
JeffreyTBH
|
|
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2012, 06:04:05 pm » |
|
I think you should. If they show more negitive traits than positive after the breeding then don't do it again. Would this be called double breed on the dad's side? And what would be the break down of the pups if this happened... 1/4 this 1/2 that... ? And while you wait for Pistol we'll breed Soka and Fred to warm up... LOL! The pups would be 5/8 Cur 3/8 Plott and double bred on Zig! Fred and Soka cross will hopefully happen when she comes in again. Looking forward to that one aswell. Need to get some pups out of Fred! As many as possible! I say we let Fred screw all the lady's! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Amokabs
|
|
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2012, 06:33:56 pm » |
|
My understanding of recessive traits, if dad has a recessive gene, and the daughter you bred him too also had the recessive gene passed to her, then a # of the pups will exhibit the recessive trait, say its being 3 legged. So you'll have 1 3 legged pup and a # of them will ha e the recessive gene. Then you outcross to something with the 4 legged recessive gene pups to dilute that recessive gene. Breed to something that u like and has traits u want to incorporate n2 your lines and has never shown or thrown the recessive gene (imaginary 3 legged gene) i barely remember all that Mendel graphing stuff from biology, but u can use it to get %'s etc. basicly, you like your male, his daughter is looking jam up, it'd be a cross I'd try in a second. Best chance of reproducing your male. Good luck!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Reuben
|
|
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2012, 07:15:28 pm » |
|
the bad thing about recessives is that the trait can be hidden and then show up when when the sire and dam are carriers. The good thing is that they can be eliminated or masked again when combined with a dominant from either the sire or dam.. but like I always say...if you keep them related and breed the best of those then you will do ok...and the more you know about dominant and recessive traits the better off you will be...bu tit can get complicated... a good example would be by crossing 2 yellow dogs and then get 9 out of 9 brindle pups in the litter. It happened 2 me and it took me by surprise.   I called Mr. Robert Kemmer and he told me that most of the time when you cross a yellow kemmer from a long line of yellow dogs to a different strain of mtn cur or breed that the majority of the pups would be brindle if not all.... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
|
|
|
|
Matt D
|
|
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2012, 07:45:22 pm » |
|
I just recently got a pup that is off a tight cross. Double bred dog off Okefenokee COWBOY heavy Reno blood. The father of the pups is Newt he is off (cowboy/daughter) breeding and the gyp is a (cowboy/sky) breeding. So I guess that would make Newt and the gyp he bred half brother and sister??? The funny thing is both parents are real pale yellow and the mom had a pink nose no mask on either parent. But somehow all the pups came out yellow with real dark black masks all look identical. The pups grandpa Okefenokee Cowboy had a black mask and the pups favor him alot. Is this from tight breeding or a throwback to the grandparents???
Matt
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
