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t.wilbanks
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« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2012, 12:46:04 pm » |
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As far as looking for your next breeding dog. What we would do is take the best super star that this pre potent dog produced when we out crossed him and then start slowly breeding this dog back into the family again and again as we got tighter and tighter we would be looking again for the Ole average Joe dog and as we got tighter and tighter we would be looking harder and harder .
Also you can take one this pre potent dogs brothers are sisters out cross him are her to a pre determined line of dogs take the best out of that liter and again slowly start breeding this are these dogs back into the family each time getting tighter and tighter again and again looking harder and harder as each breeding got tighter for the next pre potent male are female just the old average dog again . As you get tighter and tighter he are she will pop up sooner are later and you just have to go threw all the motions again to determined if he are she is the real deal pre potent stud are brood gyp you are looking for . Breeding is just a big circle is all it is . You need only one cross in there that works the more crosses you got in there the more head ache it will be for you .
Damn my fingers hurt lol . Hope it helps some of yall.
Dang, if i would have waited alittle longer to post you would have answered my next questions!!   It took me alittle longer to post trying to think!!  |
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2012, 12:58:10 pm » |
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Lol.
Yeah man it just takes years to do these types of things it is not easy at all. I only been breeding the hog dogs i got for 10 yrs now right at it and really and truthfully am just now starting to scratch the surface. To do those types of things and do it right it takes a life time 20 yrs minimum to really get it to going good and that is with the strictest rules over that 20 yrs. period. We were at the 25 yrs mark when I stopped breeding my other dogs.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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Reuben
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« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2012, 01:34:35 pm » |
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As far as looking for your next breeding dog. What we would do is take the best super star that this pre potent dog produced when we out crossed him and then start slowly breeding this dog back into the family again and again as we got tighter and tighter we would be looking again for the Ole average Joe dog and as we got tighter and tighter we would be looking harder and harder .
Also you can take one this pre potent dogs brothers are sisters out cross him are her to a pre determined line of dogs take the best out of that liter and again slowly start breeding this are these dogs back into the family each time getting tighter and tighter again and again looking harder and harder as each breeding got tighter for the next pre potent male are female just the old average dog again . As you get tighter and tighter he are she will pop up sooner are later and you just have to go threw all the motions again to determined if he are she is the real deal pre potent stud are brood gyp you are looking for . Breeding is just a big circle is all it is . You need only one cross in there that works the more crosses you got in there the more head ache it will be for you .
this is basicly how I bred my dogs and rotated the females quickly and also the males at first to simulate many years of breeding...but I wanted to stay away from breeding depression which is what TexasHogDogs is talking about and some call it tired blood...I bred all kinds of dogs before the mtn cur but I didn't have a clue back then...just bred the best to the best or what was available...but we must have a clear goal in mind...and we must have the ability to pick the very best pups...Me personally I would never own a pre potent dog that acts and looks stupid...  one reason for sure is I don't have the room and I would't want to clean behind a dog that is only used for breeding when I can have a stud dog that does great in the breeding pen and in the woods... There was a great mtn cur named gold nugget in the 1970's and 1980's and a few folks bred intensely to him...I knew a man who had a 7/8ths gold nugget male and he looked like a dog I would have taken to the pound...but that dog produced some sure enough bad to the bone hunting dogs when bred to the right females...but 3 male pups that made him famous were littermate brothers and I owned one for a while but a man kept offering me more money and a well bred female to boot of the same lines so I let him go...but the dam to the 3 males was one heck of a hunting dog and she did have gold nugget blood in her but not too much...those 3 pups were used to produce more kemmer dogs but the 7/8ths dog was given the credit and rightly so... but there is one thing I know...sometimes when a very linebred and inbred dog is bred to a below average line of dogs there will be just as many culls as good dogs produced...but breeding within the family we can produce some litters of 100% hunting dogs where we have above average dogs consistently...but when the blood gets tired we start breeding sluggish dogs and the litter sizes get smaller and some of the dogs get smaller...and an outcross might work but usually will have a few culls and if too many culls scratch the plan and do it over with another line...but if someone already has a dog with 50% of your line that is already a proven hunting dog and that dog looks right then you just saved yourself a few years and that dog can be bred in to freshen the blood and keep you going for a good while before bringing in some new blood again... but we can breed a few good dogs without having to get all serious about it if you don't want to spend the money...find a great hunting dog that has a good line behind him and buy several daughters from him as pups...but make sure the dam is of the same quality and the said dam has relations to the sires side of the bloodline...get the best female pup and breed her to her sire and now you will have a chance to get some top notch hunting dogs just that quick...I am hoping to do just that but the female is 11 years old and the male is a 4 year old dog that is burning up the woods...just trying to keep it simple...but like I always have said...breeding is half of it and selecting the right pups is the other half...and then proper handling brings out the best in them... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Reuben
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« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2012, 01:40:52 pm » |
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Lol.
Yeah man it just takes years to do these types of things it is not easy at all. I only been breeding the hog dogs i got for 10 yrs now right at it and really and truthfully am just now starting to scratch the surface. To do those types of things and do it right it takes a life time 20 yrs minimum to really get it to going good and that is with the strictest rules over that 20 yrs. period. We were at the 25 yrs mark when I stopped breeding my other dogs.
\ I agree with the strictest of rules for sure...when a mistake is made don't keep going forward...back up and scratch what was done and then do it over again from another angle... spend more time finding the right line of dogs to start with than starting with a half ass line of dogs because it will take years to clean it up enough to produce consistently a high percentage of good hunting dogs... starting out with the right dogs and you can tweak and improve on an already good line of dogs... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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t.wilbanks
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« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2012, 02:10:55 pm » |
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spend more time finding the right line of dogs to start with than starting with a half ass line of dogs because it will take years to clean it up enough to produce consistently a high percentage of good hunting dogs...
starting out with the right dogs and you can tweak and improve on an already good line of dogs...
That right there is probably just as hard as breeding the right dogs!!! How can you breed sure enough hog dogs when you cant get your hands on any to begin with!!  All the old dog farts with a good line wont let go of any dogs except to close friends, family, kiss a$$es, blah blah blah.. Wonder why all the "average" hog dogs are getting bred and producing "more culls in the world" ? Cause thats all some can get!! And before someone says " find a dogman close to you and drag their hogs, learn all you can, and they might give you a pup" , what if there are NONE close?? Sure theres plenty of guys with dogs around, but no well established, sure enough HOG DOGS.. If it wasnt for ETHD, There might be a handful of guys that i know that even hunt hogs... ( and their dogs suck!  ) There, i feel better!! |
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t.wilbanks
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« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2012, 02:28:11 pm » |
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Adding to this.
The normal person's brain is not wired to understand all of this does that mean they are dumb in no way. The great breeders think outside the ordinary ! What it means is it takes years and years of breeding to understand all of this . Like some of the Ole time hound breeders . The Plott's, The Weems, people who have lived and breathed dogs all there life's and lived in the great era of time. They know this but its not something that is advertised in the news paper are these open message boards. The old Pit breeders knew this Earl Tudor, Wallace, Hemphill, Trahan, Corvino they all knew this but it took years and years to rewire their brains to understand this it took hands on eye ball to eye ball experience to see this and to understand this then it took even more to apply it .
THD, do you think that it was easier for those pit breeders to get what they were looking for versus someone breeding for sure enough strike dogs?? |
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Reuben
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« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2012, 02:33:54 pm » |
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spend more time finding the right line of dogs to start with than starting with a half ass line of dogs because it will take years to clean it up enough to produce consistently a high percentage of good hunting dogs...
starting out with the right dogs and you can tweak and improve on an already good line of dogs...
That right there is probably just as hard as breeding the right dogs!!! How can you breed sure enough hog dogs when you cant get your hands on any to begin with!! All the old dog farts with a good line wont let go of any dogs except to close friends, family, kiss a$$es, blah blah blah.. Wonder why all the "average" hog dogs are getting bred and producing "more culls in the world" ? Cause thats all some can get!! And before someone says " find a dogman close to you and drag their hogs, learn all you can, and they might give you a pup" , what if there are NONE close?? Sure theres plenty of guys with dogs around, but no well established, sure enough HOG DOGS.. If it wasnt for ETHD, There might be a handful of guys that i know that even hunt hogs... ( and their dogs suck! ) There, i feel better!! If it wasnt for ETHD, There might be a handful of guys that i know that even hunt hogs... ( and their dogs suck! ) There, i feel better!! ok...I am going to say it too...I haven't seen many dogs that I would feed...not going to mention breeds....and I am sure lots of these breeds have improved over the years but just like when dodge screwed up back in the 1980s it left me knowing I would never buy another dodge even though I know they look good and I know some are even better that what I own now...  but the same happened to me back then with dogs...I saw dogs that couldn't smell their own butt and dogs that would only run a hog they could see...heaven forbid if they lost sight of it...they would give up they track and come back...and I would be tripping all over the dog when the dog should be out hunting..... I finally saw the light after about 7 or 8 years of this crap...and found me some real dogs...but they were kind of small and too open but at 10 months old would run a hog in the thickest briars for hours...yea...my kind of dogs...bred a BMC once into the line for quieter mouth and larger size...that put me on track... this time around I went straight to the squirrel/coon dogs again...but taking about 3 years to settle on the right dogs... right now I also have a 1/2 redbone with 1/4 ab and 1/4 pitbull and he is a beauty and hunts pretty good for a dog bred that way...he might be for sale at some point but not right now... you should try it...you might like it... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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t.wilbanks
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« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2012, 02:49:08 pm » |
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right now I also have a 1/2 redbone with 1/4 ab and 1/4 pitbull and he is a beauty and hunts pretty good for a dog bred that way...he might be for sale at some point but not right now... you should try it...you might like it... sounds like he will be a bit rough for my taste... Ive got alittle breeding planned in the future ( as soon as my gyp comes into heat ) that I hope turns out.. |
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2012, 03:52:50 pm » |
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THD, do you think that it was easier for those pit breeders to get what they were looking for versus someone breeding for sure enough strike dogs??
No the gameness trait is very elusive , very very hard to trap down to were you can get it consistent most the time. Ive seen great dogs crossed to great dogs and the whole liter does not turn out in many peoples amazement and some of the greatest bred game dogs in the world. Its just like with hog dogs you have to find that click that mixes with your bloodline this is a big key the cross. I would say the gamness trait is just as hard are even harder to come by than what you are looking for in a hog dog. This is why you have to breed familys once you get youe family right and can produce good dogs on a even bases then you can look to other familys of dogs to complement yours the cross and if all is right even add to the two both your family and outcross family.
Your family dogs need to produce consistent good dogs and some great dogs but once you get your family of dogs right then when you cross if the cross is right that is when the really super dogs should come. You then take those super dogs from the cross and go back into your family back to breeding again tighter and tighter looking for the one I was talking about in other post and producing great dogs all the way back down.
If you try the cross once and it dont work never go back are even breed to dogs with that cross in it no matter how little.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2012, 08:08:42 pm » |
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I just want to make clear in no way is this pre potent dog a cull . He is a dog that hunts his ass off but he is lacking in Vigor . He may be lacking in lungs , he may be lacking in speed , he may be lacking in looks department but one thing he does have that is above all the rest he has the HEART of a Lion and if he could speak he would tell ya he just soon die on a bad hog as he would any way else. Hog runs threw his veins and he puts this into his offspring and if out crossed correct his sons and daughters are hog hunting machines with his heart . Some may be different from me but frist and foremost to me a dog has to have the heart to get it done all else comes afterwards.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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BigCutters4
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« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2012, 10:16:25 pm » |
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this sure is some hard stuff to understand
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