Runnin hogs or time to raise the bar?

[T-Bob Parker]

If you've hunted for any length of time you've gotten on runners. Early last summer, I got outrun a lot and while early on I thought it to be these running hogs everybody was mad at, I eventually came to the determination, hard as it was to admit, that it wasn't so much the hogs runnin as it was my main dog being incapable of bringing a hog to or holding a bay. This was a long process of trial and error but since I admitted to it, I have been able to cope with it and adjust accordingly.

Don't get rude with each other on here, but please tell me what you feel your main problem is and how you intend to fix YOUR strategy.

[RyanTBH]

Well, T-Bob, since you ask... I plan on being closer behind them more often, as in closer to them the majority of the hunt... If they start ranging out really good on a track you have to stick with em. That way if they do get it stopped for even a short period of time, you can let the CD loose and get the job done. I have been out run here lately more than I'd like to admit, and I feel that is what I will have to do to get them STOPPED for good. Another idea, is figure out why they are not holding the bay... if you can see why the bay is breaking or why he/she isn't stopping the hog for long enough to get the rest of the dogs to him/her then maybe you/we can adjust accordingly. JMO... I'd have to say the number of hogs we got stopped last year compared to this year isn't looking good. But I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles...

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

Good post T-Bob,

Track speed and raw speed are my quest. Conditioning is the key to helping your dogs get there if they have the speed. All of our hogs run unless they are bedded. I would assume this to be true for most people.

I am breeding fast to fast looking for faster. Good stlye and cowdog grit/style are a given, but the speed is what stops runners for me.

As everyone knows I like to carry a Stag or two to put down when the need arrises. The raw speed of the stag running with the curs has really helped.

[brad s]

One thing is terrain. We bay lot hogs in thickets wher u have to get on your hands an knees to a caught hog. Its hard for a dog to stop one in that stuff unless it catches. Another thing is if a hog wants to run its goin too. Them hogs run every day and my dogs only run when i let them out. And these days pigs hit the ground runnin when they are born. My dogs aint the best but catch lot hogs with em but i hunted with one best dogs in my area couple dsys ago and got out ran. Hog just didnt want to stop and he wasnt goin too for long

[T-Bob Parker]

Btw that "main dog" is no longer the main dog. That's how I adjusted, I got very lucky and had a good friend give me two young dogs of his who quickly changed my fortunes.

For me it wasn't a problem of finding hogs as much as working ability.

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

Another aspect of this is the type of catch dogs you are using. I have found it to be very helpful to use catch dogs that can be sent to a running hog or that can be run on the ground. If the catch dogs are down and hunting out short range it takes the advantage away from the hog.

Most of the runners will hold up for the first few seconds and then break. Being on the ground gives the catch dogs a big head start on the hog. 30 sec to a minute faster than a dog turned lose from lead or truck.

My Stag x Dogo catch dogs are quite a bit faster than my fastest curs, about 1/3 faster. If they are with-in 600 yds of the first bark the hog will be caught quickly. If the hog holds untill it hears the catch dogs coming in, a common problem, he will be strung up in short order in most cases.

Is this a 100% fix, of course not. My dogs do get beat, but not near as often as they used to using conventional type catch dogs.

So really I have made a biger change in my catch dogs than my cur dogs. It is working very well for me in the open ground as well as the thick and rough country.

[chads7376]

I have had more luck lately just putting one or two dogs on the ground. Maybe its coincidence or luck but they have bayed where they struck the past few hunts

[Reuben]

I have had more luck lately just putting one or two dogs on the ground. Maybe its coincidence or luck but they have bayed where they struck the past few hunts

one or strike dogs on the ground can work real well. The dogs will back up and bay and not put much pressure on the hog. I am talking about dogs that have enough grit to only bite down if the hog tries to break. Add another dog or two of these type and they will pressure the hog into running...In this part of the country where it is thick in most places. The hogs will get away because most dogs can not keep up with the hog during this time of the year when the weeds and briars are think and tall...no to mention that the hogs can usually outlast the dogs in the heat...cause most dogs are on a chain most of the week and are not in top condition for this time of the year...

But if the hogs are dog smart they will run as soon as they know the dog is on track and run hard and non stop...When they feel the heat they turn to the thick stuff but most know to go to the thick briars...


I know what the perfect strike dog is but there is a fine line that you can go over one way or another...but not that hard when running 1 or 2 dogs...what is hard is to have 4 or 6 dogs of that type hunting together...because they will go over that line...

But I like to run all my dogs and I like grit...so my style is best suited from January to the first days in April...When the weeds are down the races will be quite a bit shorter...Summertime, the races are longer but usually there will be a bay...sometimes the dogs fall out from heat exhaustion...but this is hog hunting...

I like catching hogs...but my top priority is to hunt the dogs and catching some hogs rather than catching more hogs but hunting less dogs...now if I had the hunting places I would option to go with the fewer dogs if that was the way to catch more hogs...different hunting spots require different stratagies...

This topic of all topics has been the most challeging for me...

one of the problems I had was catching hogs 2 or 3 ranches over due to the dogs sticking no matter what and that there puts knots in your stomach...but like I said before...if the dogs could run in it it was a caught hog pretty quick...

I have been thinking for a good while on starting a thread on what you perceive to be the perfect strike dog...this one that T-Bob started is close but coming at it from a different angle...

[T-Bob Parker]

Rueben makes an excellent point about enjoying good dog work. I too enjoy putting time into the young and letting them gain wisdom and talent from the older dogs in the pack but, this time of year is not the best for that. During the next several months I have the oppurtunity to make it or break it with a few farmers in my area, one of whom told me that dogs are ineffective and that catching more than 1or 2 hogs in a hunt is a fairy tail. I told him what me and a friend normally catch given a viable population and he told me he'd believe it when he saw it. At that I told him I would put up or shut up. Catching large quantities of hogs is as important to me as catching trophy hogs. Big boars are always deserving of a pat on the back, but my goal is to be able to drop dogs on a Wednesday morning at 6 am and have 10-20 hogs in my trailer by 5-6 pm on a ROUTINE basis.

To accomplish this I recognized that my good ol strike dog took to long and disturbed too much ground while catching one hog so thru luck and a couple gifts from a friend I started pouring my time into a few gyps who are able to not only find hogs but have the cow sence to bunch them OR recognize that a caught hog doesn't mean works over. The more pigs they got on the more they got on the shorter the races got and I then fully realized it wasn't the hogs so much as the dogs. I hunt a lot with a friend who also has very talented dogs but those aren't the hunts I'm Refering to. I'm talking me and the girls plus a catchdog.

I attribute the recent relative success to speed, brain and working knowledge.

I have lots of dogs that will "bay the hair off a hog" but the more I watch one particular gyp the less I care about what I used to. Even in front of a hog, she don't get excited, she just works em and keeps em worked.

That's what I'm getting at, I have decided I'm not gonna worry about "runners" I'm just gonna continue to raise my personal standards, see if it pays off.

[TexasHogDogs]

Each year the hogs get smarter, faster and harder to catch it seems like.  I use to have no problem when I had my ruff dogs smart ruff dogs that is even tho I got a couple killed it happens if you are in this business long enuff are hunt enuff.

Soon as I cut some of the stopping power out of them dogs the running started there is no if ands are butts about it.  Now am right back to puttin it back in .

[cward]

I have caught just as many hogs without dogs as I have with. When u hunt rice field country or any open country and you are own horse. The hogs will slip across fields if you watch the hog while your running him down on horse you will see that a hog can't run long distance as long as he is in a dead run then he cant breath he has to stop and fight. But if he is in a trot he can run all day. So if you can breed a dog with enough speed then they can put the heat on one to stop him from running. I made an out cross with one of Vandorns gyps. Tshelly hunts behind a pup out of the cross and I think her name is ruby aka seabiscut now she is not a super dog long range hog finding machine she is still a young dog. But got more speed than a NASCAR. I got to hunt behind her one day and a runner broke on the dogs some super dogs in this race when I seen that gyp cross the first road she was 75 yards ahead of everything when she came across the next opening there was not dogs even close behind her. She put that hog at bay. People don't understand stand a dog with brain and speed until u hunt behind. One. Those are the gentics I want in my dogs. Ive hunted just about every southern state. There's no harder place than the other. The hill country with Jesse Paul was probably the toughest for my dogs do to there feet being to soft. But they still put hogs at bay in those hills.

[TexasHogDogs]

Also I might add I will never take it out again no matter what .  Aint noting worse than running hogs and this game is suppose to be stopping them catching them not running  them.  If you got 20,000 acres then I can see your game and still would not want to do it .   But not the land we got .

[TexasHogDogs]

Another aspect of this is the type of catch dogs you are using. I have found it to be very helpful to use catch dogs that can be sent to a running hog or that can be run on the ground. If the catch dogs are down and hunting out short range it takes the advantage away from the hog.

Most of the runners will hold up for the first few seconds and then break. Being on the ground gives the catch dogs a big head start on the hog. 30 sec to a minute faster than a dog turned lose from lead or truck.

I could not agree more Silverton .  I have helded mine back this year because I wanted to put another one with him for some help just have not had the right dog to run with him yet .  It sure as hell makes a big difference.

[Noah]

Some of those sho-e-nuff runners... you either got to catch them straight up(and accept the damage) or have the bottom to stay with them till they fall out(and accept the fact you'll be on somebody else's property  )...

... neither of which I really care to do these days, so I'll just be content catchin' all the rest until that old runner finally decides he don't want ta run no more 

[T-Bob Parker]

Well dog work is dog work and I am a fan of good dogs regardless of their jobtitle.

That being said, to me PERSONALLY, Im not looking for folks to leave a hunt that I hosted and say " yeah, but did you see his catchdog!?!?!!!!"
I want my curs to hold the hog at bay. That won't always be possible but that's what I'm shooting for. I was hunting with some folks once and had my youngest gyp take a track nice and quiet and calm and slip off 1.4 miles and bay a good boar. I told the other folks about it and we headed off that way. It took a long time, probably close to an hour to get over there and by then most the other dogs had joined the bay. This hog was bayed solid. We got to I believe 700 yards and one of the fellas let loose the bulldog. By the time we got there the boar was on deaths doorstep and not really worth taking pictures with as he was in bad shape.

I'm no longer worried over it and MAYBE it was the right call, who am I to say, but I would have rather gotten to walk in and make eye contact with her and then catch it. She did well and I feel like I owed her more than what she got.

[HOGDOGGERSPC]

X2 Texashogdogs
Rough dogs with a rcd on the ground on the ground.  Seems like I had more runners when I had a long range dog in the #1 spot.  Changed my dogs up amd got some roughs on the ground and haven't been out run but a couple times. 

[buddylee]

Some of those sho-e-nuff runners... you either got to catch them straight up(and accept the damage) or have the bottom to stay with them till they fall out(and accept the fact you'll be on somebody else's property  )...

Exactly how I feel. There is no other way in thicker woods. I'm trying to breed up some extremely rough shorter range dogs and aquire some dogs with a ton of bottom and drive. I realize with these dogs I'll still loose hogs.

[Reuben]

a friend of mine runs mt cur and pit crosses with vests on them...he catches a ton of hogs in the right conditions and gets outran in other places...

here lately we have gotten on a boar that keeps outrunning the dogs... this hog has been teaching me... we see him cross a pipeline and when he crosses he is moving....but when the dogs cross on the track behind the hog you can see he is travelling faster than the dogs are trailing...this place is a jungle, no cows and lots of under growth so it favors the hog...once upon a time we caught lots of hogs in this place and lots of hogs over 300 pounds but we don't like hunting that spot like we did before...now if we had a faster tracking dog it might be a different outcome...

[ROCKIN ROO HOG DOGS]

T bob,i think the term "raise the bar" is a good one to use. The reason i say this is...... from the day hogs were realased into the wild and became "feral" they have continuously adapted to or overcome most obstacles that would normally force other species to be rapidly thinned out or at least kept at a controlled number. One of the the things they have "adapted to" is us dog hunters and in a scense they "set the bar" first by figuring out that running long distances would more than likely keep them out of harms way,i guess what i am saying is YES, it is our turn to "raise the bar" and change it up a bit by utilizing rougher dogs and running catchdogs before they all become runners,thats what keeps it intersting.......changing and succeeding where others have failed.

[aussie black mouth curs]

Breed some greyhound into your baydogs, greyhound and whippet crosses naturally bite the rear end.  They wont run if there a*ses are getting bitten.  The Kiwis were onto this years ago and the idea is gradually catching on here for bailing dogs. 

I do agree with Paul T on the catchdogs though.....seriously I could outrun some pits...

T