Runnin hogs or time to raise the bar?

[T-Bob Parker]

T bob,i think the term "raise the bar" is a good one to use. The reason i say this is...... from the day hogs were realased into the wild and became "feral" they have continuously adapted to or overcome most obstacles that would normally force other species to be rapidly thinned out or at least kept at a controlled number. One of the the things they have "adapted to" is us dog hunters and in a scense they "set the bar" first by figuring out that running long distances would more than likely keep them out of harms way,i guess what i am saying is YES, it is our turn to "raise the bar" and change it up a bit by utilizing rougher dogs and running catchdogs before they all become runners,thats what keeps it intersting.......changing and succeeding where others have failed.

I agree to some extent but don't feel more butt biters are the be all end all. If they work for some that's great, but it's not what I'm headed towards.

We don't have to agree though, that's what I'm getting at. We should all set a goal for ourselves and not take our eyes off of it until we clearly see that we are wrong. If the evidence shows we are right, then full steam ahead.

[TexasHogDogs]

HOGDOGGERSPC

Yes sir.  I tell ya there is a ton of folks that want to judge a dog just by the range it gets out and hunts thats all I hear from folks boy that dog ranges he gets out there dont he.  It dont take a long long range dog to be a great dog.  When I just had short to med range dogs that were ruff and sure nuff worth there salt leave no bush unturned and sure nuff get in that butt kinda dogs we didnt have all this running like we got now.  Sure we get our share with these dogs now but the runs have gotten longer and longer.

I just thought I wanted to take some grit catch out of those dogs boy was I wrong wrong wrong .

[Reuben]

T-Bob...reading between the lines...correct me if I am wrong...but your goal is to breed a good and silent hunting dog that windmills and bays hogs and does not pressure the hog or hogs...but does all it can to turn the hog back to the other bunched up hogs if one tries to break...or... if it is a lone hog to stop it and then back up and bay...keeping it as non-threatening as possible for the hog...kind of like a good cow dog...that is what I believe is the best hog dog out there day in and day out....this dog has grit to fight a hog but at the same time it is genetics that gives him the desire and inclination to keep the hog stopped...and the desire to do this is greater than the desire to fight the hog...

[T-Bob Parker]

T-Bob...reading between the lines...correct me if I am wrong...but your goal is to breed a good and silent hunting dog that windmills and bays hogs and does not pressure the hog or hogs...but does all it can to turn the hog back to the other bunched up hogs if one tries to break...or... if it is a lone hog to stop it and then back up and bay...keeping it as non-threatening as possible for the hog...kind of like a good cow dog...that is what I believe is the best hog dog out there day in and day out....this dog has grit to fight a hog but at the same time it is genetics that gives him the desire and inclination to keep the hog stopped...and the desire to do this is greater than the desire to fight the hog...

Exactly.

Noah said either catch the hog or run the hogs lungs out, but with all due respect that couldn't be further from the truth. There are dogs out there who are capable of running a track faster than a hog can lay it, catch up to the hog on a sprint and give them no ground to gain a trot. Even they can be beat on occasion but day in day out they go to work smart and safe. Noah, you are gutsy and an adventurer, it would only be fitting that your dogs will reflect your personality. I see them on here and on Facebook and would love to hunt with you some day. As far as gritty smart dogs go, I believe yours are the real deal. I respect those dogs too and recognize their abilities and usefulness.

Mr Rueben, that is the dog I have in my goal, however if I could add one more trait to the list it would be the knowledge to watch me and adjust position and pressure per my movements, I can hiss the dogs in to catch now. I have one who I can smooch and talk to and she will let one bust out of something I don't want to get into and/or drive them closer to me. What I would love to see long run is to have a yard of dogs that would drive hogs like the old days curs + take commands like modern bomb squad dogs.

Pipe dreams maybe, but aim small miss small.

[tnhillbilly]

As bad as I hate to admit it, ole t-bobs a little smarter that I thought, unless he read all this in a book or somethin. LOL!!!  But i agree and understand 110% with what he is saying. RAISE the bar ________

[let-em-go-10]

Good read fellas...If I can catch a hog here and there I'll be alright. Everyone made good points, my strike dog is fat so thats my excuse lol  .

[Jason Dunn]

I have a gyp not gritty at all bays real loose dont think she will ever get a cut on her but I have found her baying bushes cause she wouldnt get in there close and watch the hog old hog would hit the back door and gone. But if I run her with a rough dog she gets her courage and will nip and bite and stay with the hog up close and they wont loose it I got 2 cur/pit mutts rough as guts I toss them in the mix they run anong with her and do the dirty work.

[Shotgun66]

Great post T Bob. I agree with Silverton, TXHOGSANDDOGS, and Hoggdoggersc on the speed and grit aspects. I would add intelligence, adaptability, and willingness to pack with other dogs to the list. Our #1 strike dog is loose as goose. He has displayed very little desire to put teeth on hogs. He finds them almost everytime we go, works large groups like a cow dog, seems to single out large hogs, and rolls out on other hogs when we get him help . He has a bottomless gas tank. I have no doubt that he is athletic enough to be a good stop dog. I think he simply chooses not to. He is the Deion Sanders of hog dogs. He is paid to cover, not tackle. We are searching hard for a sure enough athletic, rough help/stop dog that will pack with him. Our goal is to add some grit to a dog like him for THAT dog we all want. 

[Reuben]

T-Bob...reading between the lines...correct me if I am wrong...but your goal is to breed a good and silent hunting dog that windmills and bays hogs and does not pressure the hog or hogs...but does all it can to turn the hog back to the other bunched up hogs if one tries to break...or... if it is a lone hog to stop it and then back up and bay...keeping it as non-threatening as possible for the hog...kind of like a good cow dog...that is what I believe is the best hog dog out there day in and day out....this dog has grit to fight a hog but at the same time it is genetics that gives him the desire and inclination to keep the hog stopped...and the desire to do this is greater than the desire to fight the hog...

Exactly.



Mr Rueben, that is the dog I have in my goal, however if I could add one more trait to the list it would be the knowledge to watch me and adjust position and pressure per my movements, I can hiss the dogs in to catch now. I have one who I can smooch and talk to and she will let one bust out of something I don't want to get into and/or drive them closer to me. What I would love to see long run is to have a yard of dogs that would drive hogs like the old days curs + take commands like modern bomb squad dogs.

Pipe dreams maybe, but aim small miss small.

I agree that this is the perfect hog dog but we are talking about the overall big picture in general...It would take several pages to describe the fine details that make a hunting/hog dog...

The truth as how I see it...most cow dogs don't have the nose or hunt and range that I like...but they have the smarts to keep a hog bayed...

A large mtn cur of 55-60 pounds is what I like...the good ones have range, nose, and the ability to find a hog pretty quick...but they were bred to catch and kill game...but generally...from what I have seen... is that 1 or 2 of these type of dogs will keep one bayed...more than that and it is caught or stopped because the dogs were able to manuever and keep him stopped or caught...the desire is to catch and not to keep one bayed...but these dogs will catch and let go as they get tired... but once I got there they would catch...but I made them back up until I was ready...later, I carried a gun because I didn't want a dead or crippled dog.

but I like the mtn cur and their type of personalities match up with mine a little better...it is more of a kill or be killed type of mentality... unleashing an uncontrolled... yet controlled power...don't ask to explain it...

[smarlowe]

Because I am new to this and still tryin to figure it all out I want everyone that reeads this to understand that I'm not saying that this is the way it is everywhere, but this is what I see ! Maybe I can learn something from you more experienced guys with your more experienced dogs. I deal with runners all the time !I don't usually get em. I have seen a hog actually bayed only one time in Ohio. When I say one time I mean a bay that didn't break and I actually walked into a bay where hogs were holding for a dog. Normally what I see is hogs runnin from our wind, even from a couple hundred yards, or dog locates hog, barks twice, hog starts runnin and dogs start chasin. This goes on for miles and miles and miles and at some point ya just wanna grab the dogs and go! Now this happens if I have my hound cross with me cause he has the bottom you talk about. He won't stop till he falls over ! Now I know for fact that when these hogs start runnin I'm probly not gona get it. I've seen the hog stay bout a mile ahead of the dogs and stay there all day long ! If my dogs grab a hog when they first find it, and I mean grab it and hold it , I can get that hog. This is the only way I have been able to get one ?? They have to slip in quiet and catch it ! Now, I know from all u guys that there are dogs that can find one and keep it bayed without catching, my dogs can do that too ,like when I took em to G.A.  My dogs did good. But these hogs in Ohio need a dog like yur talkin bout cause all these hogs here are runners, even the little ones, they are different than those hogs in GA. Please don't tell me they aren't because its a fact. Everythings different here ! So, if anyone can show me one of these dogs your talkin bout I will pay big big bucks for it ! Or maybe you can give some tips on makin one. Long story short, in ohio its straight catch or no pork !

[Reuben]

smarlowe,

I don't think their is  one type of dog that can catch a hog. But probably the best dog is a fast track dog that is silent...then this dog must do all it can to keep the hog from running...and that dog shouldn't apply any pressure if the hog isn't trying to break...to me the hog needs to feel that it is safer to not run than to run...but like it has been said in the past...some hogs will not hold bay because they have been dogged enough and they have learned to run... and then we have evolution that has helped the survival of the hogs..we as doggers have been the biggest reason why these hogs have evolved to what they are today...otherwise they would all have been caught by now... 

Rockin Roo brought up the fact that hogs run more today than way back when...We have discussed this many times here on ETHD.

A lot of us believe in 2 things...one is that the hogs learn and adapt...2. the easy hogs have been caught and the ones that get away are the ones that will pass on their genes... and these hogs prefer flight rather than fight...but these hogs are ferocious when cornered or when pushed into a fight.

One thing I have noticed over the years is that the ones with the floppy ears that looked like barnyard hogs would rather fight than run. The runners tend to look like russian hogs with the smaller pricked ears and the tall shoulders and the smaller rear end...skin out a runner and you will see the  power and an animal that is built for speed...the power is balanced but it is exaggerated up on their shoulders and the top of the neck... the offspring of these type of hogs are usually are born red with black stripes or black with red stripes... 

I write like it is fact...  but these are opinions and beliefs that I have developed over the years... and... we learn from each others way of thinking...and that is a good thing...

[T-Bob Parker]

Seriously? A mile in front of the dogs? Those hogs ain't runnin, they ain't got no pressure to. Sounds to me like what has happened is your hunting some hounds that couldn't find herpes in a ho house.

I shouldn't say that as it sounds rude, but seriously, what your seeing is not a matter of loose vs rough or anything of the sort, you definetly have some dogs that have zero stock sence at all. And the ones that catch immediately I'd be willing to bet have bull blood in them right? Or running hound blood? See those dogs have an instinct to stop the game and create confrontation. Sounds like the hounds that are unsuccessful are probably tree bred dogs aren't they.

Respectfully, I don't think the problem you are describing relates to this conversation so much.



What part of Ohio are you in? I've got a trade show in Columbus in the fall and could maybe spare a few days to see these marathon hogs if you'd like to make a hunt?

[T-Bob Parker]

The more I read what I wrote the more rude and cocky it sounds, don't take offence please, none was intended. I'm just trying to be helpful in my foot in mouth kinda way.

[bigo]

T-Bob, not many people have seen the type of dog your talking about. Take it from me, you can tell them till your blue in the face, and they won't believe what they haven't seen. I have offered to show people many times over the years and most never show up.

[T-Bob Parker]

You're right. Chance has tried to tell me that many times so I will just shut up and have fun from now on.

I'm a slow learner Mr Owens. 

[smarlowe]

Reuben , the hog you described is all I have here. No floppy ears at all. Tall shouldered , little ass. Looks like the tazmanian devil on the old bugs bunny cartoons. T bob, I am not offended, I have not had many dogs, first dog I had was silent, short ranged and would grab any hog we found big or small. The bird bull I have now is pretty good at locating a hog but he won't touch one without help. As soon as he barrks at it its off like a deer and yes I'm not exxagerating when I say these hogs will get out a mile past the dogs ! The hound cross I mentioned will stay on that track all day but its rare that we ever get in catching range again. Now I love the sounds of the dog yur talkin about, yes sir I want one !!!!! My dogs did real good down south but up here it's just different ! I am in southern ohio near athens. If your in ohio I woill gladly put ya up while yur here. I would appreciate the oppotunity to learn first hand from ya.

[T-Bob Parker]

Well heck, I doubt I can teach you anything, but I'll try to get a few days and we can have some fun. If their that bad we just just have to shoot em 

[smarlowe]

Tbob, thanks, I thought you were gona be mean about it !lol. You let me know when yur comin to town and I'll do eveerything I can to make yur stay a good one ! And shootin these damn things is ok too !

[smarlowe]

Bigo, I do believe ya all about that type of dog. I just don't know how to get ahold of it. I'm raising some that I hope will help but I have never had the chance to see dogs that can work like that. If ya ever want to come and show me I will pay for your trip. Respectfully , scott

[djhogdogger]

One thing is terrain. We bay lot hogs in thickets wher u have to get on your hands an knees to a caught hog. Its hard for a dog to stop one in that stuff unless it catches. Another thing is if a hog wants to run its goin too. Them hogs run every day and my dogs only run when i let them out. And these days pigs hit the ground runnin when they are born. My dogs aint the best but catch lot hogs with em but i hunted with one best dogs in my area couple dsys ago and got out ran. Hog just didnt want to stop and he wasnt goin too for long

X2  It seems to me that our problem isn't speed its the thick terrain. A month ago we got the chance to see our pack stop a runner (bout 80lber. flying low) out in the open. That hog was stretched out and gettin it! He took off right when we put the dogs on the ground and he had a hundred yard head start but the curs caught him. So that tells me that our dogs are fast enough.

 When we get outrun, it usually plays out like this..... the dogs are out in the woods and we hear a dog strike. We may hear a few barks afterwards. Looking at the garmin, all of the dogs head that way. Soon after, they will split up and go in different dirctions. Every now and then a dog may stop and bay up but  then it goes quiet and the dog or dogs is still in the same place for about 3 to 5 minutes and and then they take off again.

At the same time, a dog or two will be a mile away still running.

 We go in to see what the dogs who quit barking are doing and they will usually come meet us and then we will find a  piglet or small choat. So we will load those dogs up and then have to go pick up the other dogs because by then they are getting on someone elses property.

This scenario is very common this time of the year. It seems like there are lots of sows with young ones that split the dogs up and we wind up with nothing caught and very tired dogs by the end of the night.