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Author Topic: Saltydog Catahoulas--doin' it my way  (Read 13167 times)
Saltydog Catahoulas
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« on: July 10, 2012, 05:49:43 pm »

My time has loosened up a little, and I’d like to share some of our hogdog philosophies with the honest hearted who are interested. I will tell you about just one of my Saltydogs, for sake of time. He is my newest stud dog, a gorgeous red leopard about 3-1/3 years old, representing about 14 generations of Saltydogs. His name is Saltydog’s Raunchy, and representing about 14 generations of culling hard, and genetic design. First, some back ground which touches a little on the philosophy behind how I view working dogs—my opinions only, but what works for me.

What Saltydogs do,, or how they work or what makes them tick----- for those who are truly interested, I have raised catahoulas for 22+ years. I have sold dogs all over the country, and internationally, with many repeat customers over the years, selling a few for cowdogs, a few for search/rescue, a few for just companions, but most for hogdogs. Why do these customers come back? —simple----    Because they like my dogs—they do what’s expected of them.

How do my dogs work? I was asked this “general” question on a different thread, and a question like that is impossible for me to answer, for this reason, which any real dogman can understand. A '”quick/easy” answer is a shallow thoughtless answer, in my book, and that’s not what I want to give here. As some of you have seen, I will not be prodded into a quick answer to something so deeply rooted in my kennel philosophies, just to satisfy the impatient. There are several major problems that are a key factor about the “how a dog works” question/answer deal.  Here’s a few brief factors that come into play of how “dogs work”, that most good dogmen easily recognize and identify with.

1) Dogs are genetically individuals—and every individual is different. Hypothetically, you can breed two of your best dogs, get a litter of ten puppies. Two of those pups will likely rise above the rest of the litter in ability and achievement. Six of the litter will make good dogs. Yet two will likely be under achievers/culls—not representing their breeding very well. It is nearly impossible to see this play out unless you keep the whole litter for 6 months and work with these pups and really observe their development. Perhaps you have a brother or sister, and as you grow up, it becomes evident many subtle differences.

The way I run my breeding program, is to recognize the traits I want to see expressed in my dogs---my idea of how my catahoulas go about the business of representing what the breed is all about, and through generations of breeding for those traits, my dogs become the rule, not the exception for those desired traits. I have genetically streamlined my dogs.

2) Pilot error. That’s right, the dog’s handler is a HUGE factor in a dogs development for better or worse. I have seen some handlers do all the wrong things and literally kill the working desire in a GOOD dog. People like this should not even be allowed to own a working dog. A good dogman knows how to bring out the BEST in a pup/dog. I know guys who have a yard full of dogs some one else threw away ”stupid dog won’t work, won’t look at a hog---blah-blah-blah”, yet in the hands of a real dogman, these “culls” bloom into great achievers.

3 Personality clash. I have seen good dogmen not get anywhere with an occasional dog. I have personally taken back a dog or two from trusted customers (whom I KNOW their handling abilities and have seen their dogs work fantastic), and placed the same dog with another customer, and the dog excels. Sometimes it’s simply a personality clash. Again, dogs are individual personalities, as are people.

So, the “canned generic wide open for argument” question of “How do your dogs work”, has quite a bit to it, and no simple answers. Boils down to “which dog do you want to ask about?”—remember, they are all individuals.

My current string of dogs vary, just like anyone else’s would. Some dogs will hunt close and some range way out. Some bay back a ways, yet some are gritty enough to go in and catch.  Wouldn’t we all  love to have a yard full of strike dogs, but not every dog is going to finish out as a jam-up strike dog. Just the way it is.

 My best dog is a VERY nice strike dog, and he is who I’ll spend a little time about—‘ole Raunchy. He was baying through the fence at 3 months old—not strong, yet enough to know he would be good some day. 4 months he was in the pen working with the other puppies—still not strong, but yet he was showing enough. He was about 8 months old when he was introduced to the woods---a little late for what I like, but never the less---------This pup was paired up with a jam up strike dog bitch my friend has (acquired from my kennel, an amazing story how this bitch was rescued, and turned into an incredible strike dog—another time on this story, though) The pup went out his first 19 times with his mother and had a hog caught 19 times. It was what we call a “honey-hole”—perfect for training woods dogs. Most of his early hogs were about 100 lb shoats—ideal size. A couple of the later catches packed some hard core size—350 LB range. (we do not use catch dogs)  Since then, this dog has gotten stronger and stronger in distance and try. His best run, according to our Garmin, he ran out of the tracker’s range, and half hour later run back in, on a running hog. 18 miles is what the Garmin recorded. He’s the kind of a dog, when you start a hunt, he hangs around for about 15 minutes, and starts to move out to about 300 yards, then on out to about 700-1200 yards. I do know, we have followed hunters through the woods by an hour or two, and pick up hogs their dogs missed. So goes quality. Small hogs, he will just snatch up. Bigger, he waits for support, then goes in. His name is Saltydog’s Raunchy. He is an own son of my old Saltydog’s Legbone and out of Saltydog’s Nevermind, who is a daughter to Saltydog’s Earl out of Saltydog’s Eva.  Earl goes back to the hardest knocking gritty strike dogs ever out of my kennel, and that’s the old Bozo/Haint cross. Raunchy represents the rangier built dogs—built for speed and endurance. He weighs 65lbs.

More later/another time.
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MrsLouisianaHogDog
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2012, 06:00:27 pm »

Nice chunk of info there. Good read. Thanks. We have a Cat here that is the best dig we've hunted behind. I really admire the breed.
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~Krystale of the Southern Comfort Combine~
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2012, 06:02:30 pm »

Now aren't you glad MIKE didn't terminate your membership here 

The dog sounds like a real nice hog dog.  For three years old, he should only get better in every way, which is always a good thing. Let's see some pictures of ol' Raunchy.
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Saltydog Catahoulas
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 06:10:38 pm »

Well, Mike can still terminate if he wants to. LOL!! Evil

I want to add, I started with catahoulas and chose to stay with MY blood lines, but makes no differences--I have hunted behind other breeds that have jam-up individuals, too. I've also hunted behind some aweful dogs, too, catahoulas or otherwise. Catahoulas are not created equal, the same as BMC, or plotts, etc.. They either will or they won't --it's the way it is. Cull hard, hunt hard, and have fun.
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 06:32:36 pm »

I can count the number of people on one hand I'd trust to get a catahoula from and pretty much know that I'll have a hog dog on my hands. 

What about pictures of some of your stock?
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Saltydog Catahoulas
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 07:05:53 pm »

I will not be able to post pics for awhile, running too hard to take the time to get some decent pics. Sorry
 That's why my website is 2-3 years behind.
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okboarhunter
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 09:56:47 pm »

James moorehead??

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JRyanS
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 10:12:29 pm »



Look who back!

Good info!
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Saltydog Catahoulas
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2012, 07:25:02 am »

James moorehead??

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Yes, that be me. Smiley
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Saltydog Catahoulas
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2012, 07:27:10 am »



Look who back!

Good info!
[/quote]

Been to the post office and got my picture, I see. Evil
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Txmason
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2012, 07:42:41 am »

James,
Good information and I have know you for 15 years or so and have seen some good dogs that you have produced.
I might not have the best Catahoula's but they work for me and have some very satisified customers also.  Time is short and takes a long time to have some proven stuff but still cull hard, hunt hard, and enjoy what you do.
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2012, 07:50:16 am »

Thanx for the kind words Doug. I've heard you have some very jam-up working dogs yourself. Enjoy them, that's what its all about.
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Hogsnatchers
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2012, 09:21:47 am »

Glad to see you decided to hang around, you'll meet some good folks on here and thanks for the info. I still have to call you back one day been a little hectic around here.

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Bryant
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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2012, 10:33:07 am »

Saltydog,

Do you linebreed within your program?  I find it interesting that you speak of so much variance within the dogs you produce...and even in mentioning those within your own pack.

My current string of dogs vary, just like anyone else’s would. Some dogs will hunt close and some range way out. Some bay back a ways, yet some are gritty enough to go in and catch.


I too breed my own dogs however strickly for my own use, and granted producing good dogs is my number one goal but consistancy within the progeny runs a VERY close second.  I do keep my entire litters for the purpose of evaluating, yet those that don't conform to my personal standards and hunting style simply don't make the cut.  Perhaps if selling pups was my intent, I would view things differently.

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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2012, 10:42:52 am »

Saltydog not trying to knock you or your dogs. Buy the quote Bryant just quoted is a big statement to,me also. I breed dogs with no intent to sale. Keeping whole litters then culling to what im looking for. Then having a set of dogs that all match. what I have seen with people selling pups and dogs is they forget what they are looking for in there dogs and start fitting doctor what people want. So if you like a dog loose and long range you will not cull a rough short range dog you fit that dog with someone who needs a dog like that. If thats the case then there is no standards in your cats just another dog.
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Saltydog Catahoulas
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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2012, 01:13:00 pm »

Bryant, You and CW both have very good points, in which any reasonable dogman would relate to. Yes, I DO incorporate line-breeding. Goes back to my horse breeding days. Horse genetics and dog genetics are very close in how they express themselves in off spring. The best you can do is breed dog A to dog B and hope for the best--thus a starting point. Genetics will express it's self for better or worse, and you, as a responsible breeder get to make the next generation's decisions. And yes, keeping the litter back to evaluate what YOU like in your program is what it's all about. If a dog does not pass muster, that does not mean it's a bad dog--it means the specimen will not work for what I need to breed back in to my program. Now that same dog might be just exactly what some one else likes in THEIR program. So place your pups. But be responsible enough to cull suspect pups--ones with the genetic markers for blindness/deafness--these markers are often ignored by irresponsible breeders, so they hurt the breed. You yellow dog folks have the same situation, just a different set of problems prominate in YOUR favorite breed. All breeds have room for genetic improvement.

CW, I can say this much about "just another dog" generalization, that would be true in a "new" breeding program--beginners who have not had enough time to make a genetic impact on their program. However I have watched undesireable traits diminish and disappear with in MY lines, over the years. I have also watched desireable traits come on stronger and become more the rule than the exception within my dogs.  I always am amazed at the next generation of pups to hit the ground.

On the genetic time line, catahoulas are a brand new breed in the Dog World. NALC was the first totally dedicated association to register and promote "cleaning up the genetics", and they began about 1970-71-ish. Prior to that Stodhill registered some in the '60's. But NALC really cleaned up the standards. To me, that was a big obstacle out of the way for catahoulas. Catahoula genetics are very loose, as you can check out other bloodlines, and most seem to have their own "look". The "Fe-Fe" breeders who breed just for color are the catahoula breeds worst enemy, IMHO. That's a whole new topic in it's self.

If you were to look at other dog breeds--let's say dobermans or rottweillers, or German Shepards, they have been breeding for desireable traits for 400 + years. Catahoulas are just beginning this genetic journey. Genetisist say that it take 10 years to breed out one bad trait in an animal--and I believe them. It takes one poor decision and one breeding to breed IN a bad trait. Then, let's deal with "thow-back" traits. So breed responsibly and always breed UP instead of DOWN, the best you know how.

Know your dogs. I can run my pedigrees back into the mid '60's. That's valuable information.How far back do YOU know your bloodlines?Breed responsibly and enjoy the results
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Lacy man
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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2012, 02:39:19 pm »

I have lacys but I like your point of view saltydog. My grandpa had cats for years and walkers and he breed best to best ad just because a pup didn't fit his personal preference didn't mean it didn't fit some other hunters. Very good comment.
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2012, 03:01:02 pm »

welcome back saltydog , there are some really good people here , we luv dogs , hogs , and good storys , thanks for your feedback , I also have a catahoula , top notch        I dont have much knowledge in line breeding process but have been studying and surfing the web for info , Ive done a lot of research on my bulldogs pedigree  trying to find a method to there madness, hes very closely line bred on both sides for generations [ which I know in a hog hunters world dont mean squat ] but I also know my bmcs I have are also linebred for several generations by a friend of mine , one of my females is 6 yrs old , shes a top notch dog , hunts close to medium range , she will stay with one for miles , she bays loose unless its a small one , I would like to keep craigs line breeding program going , which there not papered just hardworking bmc dogs anyway she has had pups before which now are around 2 yrs old , a couple are really turning out ,is it to close to breed a son back to his mother ? also can brother and sister be bred ? or is this to close ,  any knowledge in this area would be a big help    thanks
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Saltydog Catahoulas
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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2012, 04:52:16 pm »

Thanx, Lacyman, I appreciate that.

Bob, no simple answers dealing with this sort of thing. A man is best off to aquire a pretty good understanding of how that all work. I would recommend getting a genetics book on dogs. If you are into horses, the gentics are very similar, and do a search for Larry Thornton, and check out some of his books. Larry's will bring you up to speed.
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rdjustham
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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2012, 04:58:50 pm »

If a dog does not pass muster, that does not mean it's a bad dog--it means the specimen will not work for what I need to breed back in to my program. Now that same dog might be just exactly what some one else likes in THEIR program. So place your pups.

However I have watched undesireable traits diminish and disappear with in MY lines, over the years. I have also watched desireable traits come on stronger and become more the rule than the exception within my dogs. 

If you were to look at other dog breeds--let's say dobermans or rottweillers, or German Shepards, they have been breeding for desireable traits for 400 + years. Catahoulas are just beginning this genetic journey.

Ive tried to stay outta this but the above quotes raised some questions for me.  Now i do not have a breeding program or a line of dogs per say.  BUT... I know enough about breeding to know that if i dont have a "plan" so to speak i wont ha ve aline of consistant dogs.  If you like loose dogs and the occasional rough one comes along and you pass it to someone else instead of culling then "your line" can still be bred and now there are rough dogs out of your line.  It seems to me that if you culeld these and bred for genetic traits as you seems to say you do then your line would not vary so much.  Not to sound insulting here but the above quotes are a little contradicting when you talk about breeding for genetics and not for "fro fro" dogs.

Seems to me your talkin in circles.  and based on the posts you have posted are trying to convince people about your dogs.  Since you were so intent on bringin up others dogs with the YOU comments ill tell ya.  Ive got a couple out of different lines that i cant trace their genetics, I know what they can do and the few ive bred if the pups werent what was expected they got culled not passed down the road.  

Not meant to be argumentative just point out the inconsitancies in your ONE post.
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